KBGT Select

I have the mochamaster. I personally think it's overhyped

I also have a KBG select and extremely rarely brew more than 250 ml at a time. Tbh, it’s a really solid cup. Just slightly adjust the grind size.

So if you’re okay with a V60 / Chemex (the lack of automation, extra effort and time needed) then don’t get a Moccamaster tbh, it’s not worth it. Don’t get me wrong, I love mine a lot, but I was thinking about this the other day and that’s my conclusion. If you’re in the market for -specifically- a filter coffee machine, then a moccamaster is a great option

Curious as to why? (Moccamaster user and it really matches the hype)

Based on your requirements, a Moccamaster seems like the best fit. Specifically the Optio or the KBGV Select. If you make a lot of coffee at once, consider getting the thermal carafe version as that is far better at maintaining both heat and flavour. The glass version “cooks” the coffee on the hotplate, introducing weird flavours to the coffee over time. The thermal versions are often called Moccamaster Automatic Thermo in the EU/Nordics or KBGT/KBT in other naming. But it is significantly taller than the glass version. So my recommendation is to just buy a separate thermal carafe and pour from the glass container into that, which is what I do. I find the glass versions looks better as well. So: - Moccamaster Optio / KBGV Select - Optionally a thermal carafe (only if you brew large batches)

+1 for moccamaster. Had mine two years now, it's excellent, easy to clean, and fully repairable. I went with the one that has a vacuum pot rather than a glass carafe.

This is the moccamaster I'm talking about. Love mine too. Although the wife and I manage to switch the basket off sometimes and make a mess.

I have the Moccamaster KBGV Select. Basically its like making a pour over grade coffee, but for 6-10 cups at a time. It brings the flavor out of the beans. The problem is if you buy cheap coffee beans, you can tell.

It sounds like the majority of your use is a cup, or maybe a couple. Rarely a pot.  If this is true I’d suggest the cup one and you could get a cheaper coffee maker if you want for the pot. IMO the moccasters brew better when they brew full or nearly full pots, so a liter or 1.25 liters. Trying to get them to brew just a cup I’ve never had luck and seen similar struggles here with people trying to do even half pots. It can be done, but the cup one would be better.  Maybe down the road get a bonbons 8 or 10 cup brewer on a Black Friday type sale or refurbished, or even just a cheap brewer from Walmart when you have guests.  As for grinder I don’t know if you’d consider the baratza encore cheap or not but it is suggested a lot and I use to have one and liked it just fine.  Edit: or you know, do a liter of coffee and drink three mugs worth of coffee a day. That is actually what I do most days. 

I think the Moccamaster was one of the first brewers to provide the correct water temp / flow, at least that became popular. The reputation from this plus they do tend to last a long, long time (I have one that is still going strong after 20 years) make them worth it imo. As for taste two things. One, imo any brewer that is on the SCAA list will make good coffee and all be wishing the same league as each other. I don’t know if your Ninja is on that list but I’ve had the Bonavita from that list and while it lasted it made good coffee, it just didn’t last. So a coffee maker that makes good or great coffee at the top isn’t going to be bested heads and shoulders by another, there is diminishing returns at the top and of course subjective taste buds. But the Moccamaster (and other SCAA brewers) make good coffee, then the Moccamaster has the advantage of lasting a very long time, at least in my experience although I understand you think it feels cheap. Second, could it maybe be a dialing in thing with how you are brewing? You mentioned using the same grind for each of the methods you tested but that is not being fair to any of the three. Different brewers and brew methods require different grind sizes. If one is cupping to taste test different beans or compare grinders then that evenness of the same grind would be good to do, but not in comparing coffee makers. Dialing in each grind size for each method would be best. If others have your model of grinder they may help you get started but you could also pick a ratio and dedicate a bag of your typical beans and start out grinding several stops too fine to see what bitter is like, then several stops too coarse to see what sour is like, then work your way back towards bitter until you can just start to taste bitterness, then back off a stop. Just a suggestion.

For the most part imo then there wouldn’t be a wide tase difference between the brewers then if the Ninja would have been capable of being on the SCAA list had they certified it. So then it just goes to which other features you like in a brewer. I like the looks of the Moccamaster and the no frills (no LEDs, digital, timers, etc.) but others need the frills or like different looks. FWIW I can get a better brew with a chemex and a pour over as well, and also prefer Americanos out of an espresso machine I also have, but if my Moccamaster would actually die I’d get another. What I get from it is easy making coffee in a pot that I don’t have to think ab out for good, even brew every time. Other brewers can do this too though.

If you are using the glass carafe and lifting the lid when you pour….don’t. Seems a lot of people because of the thumb treads do this but it pours just fine if you don’t. If you aren’t and/or have the thermal….beats me what is happening as mine doesn’t dip.

Another vote for Moccamaster but a word of caution….people will say and have said in this thread how great of coffee it makes but while that may be true vs cheaper brewers most brewers on the SCAA list will make good coffee and the differences between the quality of the coffee they brew isn’t huge. Diminishing returns in the better the brewer you get. Not steering you away, my first one from the late 1990s is still going strong at my son’s house and my 2nd at our home is chugging along great. The Moccamaster is a no frills, BIFL coffee brewer.

Pretty much all the SCAA certified coffee brewers, or a coffee brewer that can deliver those specs such as water flow at a certain temperature, are going to brew good coffee. That's it. The moccamaster is great because it does that, is built well, is simple, and has replacement parts. If you are looking for a better tasting cup of coffee you will need to switch brewing process to see if you prefer any of those those (French press, espresso, etc.) just like baking is not frying is not microwaving in taste and texture. Other than that, you are not going to get a world of difference between similar styles of good coffee makers. So if your Ninja is still working and delivering the water flow at the temperature needed, just keep it imo.

You mention not wanting to stir and do pre-blooming .... if you read that about the MM it is not needed although some people like to try. The Luxe has a lot of settings to fuss around with like this as well, although also you don't have to touch. I'm not sure about the Precision. Note that drinking brewed coffee over your 4-5 hour time period it will change flavor from beginning to end if you have a discerning palette. While it'll happen faster on a warming plate, inside of an hour, coffee stewing in a thermos will do the same at a slower rate. It'll maintain temperature and still be coffee and likely tasty in a thermos, but flavor notes of freshly brewed coffee will be dulled. One reason the MM may not be for you is the desire to use pre-ground coffee. Every coffee brewer, no matter the model or method, has a preferred grind size where it makes the best coffee. The MM's is coarser than the grind size of pre-ground off the shelf coffee. Even Technivorm I think says it is on the coarser side of drip/pour over. If you have your local roaster grind to that size then fine, but off the shelf bags likely won't be as good. As far as the quality of the coffee, the MM and the Breville's both are on the SCAA certified list so the differences in the flavor and quality of the coffee they make are going to be similar....enough so that it'd be subjective to the person's tastebuds which produces the better cup. They both should produce equally good coffee. So pick the one with the aesthetics or bells and whistles that you want. The biggest pros of the MM are the simple design, use, and robustness. Breville is no slouch. One last thought, you mentioned you want simple and cups over hours and used to have a Keurig but sounds like they die a lot on you. Have you considered Nespresso Vertuo line which is for coffee (original line is better for espresso)? I've had some pretty good cups from those with the biggest downsides being price of the pods ($1 each or so?) and the coffee isn't as hot as freshly brewed, an issue (for me, not all of course) with the Keurig's as well.

Yes and no. I can’t speak to the EU grind size but I’d think Technivorm US would be smart enough to alter it in the US manuals if it was the difference of a more espresso grind size vs what the US has when considering store bought pre-ground bags. But even if they didn’t think of changing it they state medium to medium coarse like you say, and the bags I’ve had off store shelves are more medium to medium fine, almost like granulated sugar or beach sand. I don’ think they work especially well in the MM but then taste buds differ of course. Most guides I’ve seen have it on the coarser side of medium as well, resembling rough sand or sea salt. I’m sure plenty of people like it finer grind than I do, but do most is the question I guess.

IMO the MM does a great job at 1L or full pot brews. Yeah, some of them have half pot settings and people do do half pots, but the result isn't as good as I'd like. Doesn't the aeropress have an XL size that makes the range you are thinking? If I'm going to do a single cup or the range you have I have other options I use, I only use the MM for 1 liter brews.

Process: * Use another container besides the carafe to pour 300 or so ml water into the reservoir, I use a Pyrex beaker as it is graduated and I like the aesthetics. Unless you are deep cleaning our carafe each time the coffee oils are building up on it even if you can’t see them and you don’t wan them to get into the boiler * Run that water through the machine, rinsing the paper filter even if it is bleached, pre warming the carafe, pouring that water into your cup to pre warm it * Use your preferred ratio / grind and brew a great cup Tips * Don’t do all the fancy hold for bloom, stirring, etc. some like to do for what is at best (if at all) marginally better flavor. It is a simple machine meant to brew simply and has been doing so for decades. * Find your starting grind size by picking a ratio and sticking with it. While I used to use 62g to 1 L of water in a Bonavita with the MM I use closer to the SCAA golden ratio / what MM suggests (55g) by using 56.3g per liter as 56.3g divides nicely into a 12 oz bag of coffee. * First brews if you don’t know what biter is purposefully grind too fine, taste. Then grind too coarse, taste. Now keep making new brews getting finer from that sour until you hit your preferred taste or you taste bitter again, then back off a step. You now have your starting grinder setting, which for many is on the coarser end of pour over / dip for our grinder. * Descale when you run out of every 100 count box of filters * I also run the cleaning powder through every week or two as I only rinse and wipe the glass carafe during the week. * For my taste buds about day 4 or 5 on a bag of beans I go 1 step finer. I also sometimes go 1 step finer if the roast is very light or 1 step coarser if the roast is very dark * Full or near full pots (so 8 cup line of 1 liter, 10 cup line of 1.25 liter if I recall correctly (I jus use a 1 L beaker to pour in) work best, if trying to do 1/2 pots your ratio and/or grind size will change