Baratza - Encore ESP

Encore ESP or Fellow Opus are great. Fellow Opus is on sale for prime day right now. Like the other comment said, 1zpresso hand grinders are literally as good as electric grinders multiple times their price if you are okay doing that (I personally would recommend either the X-pro or the JX-pro out of the 1z lineup)

Glad to see the esp get the James Hoffman approval. I bought it a few months ago after leaving my hand grinder in an Airbnb, and kind of went against the “there aren’t any good grinders under £250” narrative from the older roundup videos by going with the esp. So far I’m happy with it. I like the flavor profile and the grind is consistent. I haven’t come close to maxing out the grind adjustment even without the included shims so there’s no issues with it not grinding fine enough. The only issues I’ve ran into is that the hopper lid sometimes pops off if I’m not holding it while grinding, and there’s no good way to grind directly into the portafilter out of the box, but I just ordered the single dose hopper and portafilter holder attachment from baratza so hopefully that’ll resolve those issues. The noise of the machine improved for me after about a month of use. It was initially kind of harsh and uneven sounding out of the box, but it seems to have smoothed out after running about a pound of coffee through it. Overall it seems to be plenty good enough for my entry level usage and I think it’ll still be good enough to keep up once I decide to upgrade to a better espresso machine down the line.

I am very happy with my Baratza ESP.

Encore ESP is < chef’s kiss >. $240 or so? Great for all my coffee needs.

Mine is set for 19 right now. Medium or light roast; v60. 20g of coffee; 1:18

25 is way too course. That’s approaching Chemex territory! Good luck on your journey

Blade grinders are not suitable for coffee. If you want a good grinder you need to get a burr grinder, with your options being handgrinders like kingrinder, commodante and timemore or electric grinders like baratza encore esp, fellow opus or a df54. These are the cheapest grinders that will get you good results.

For that price, you can get a hand grinder, like the Kingrinder K4 or K6 that will perform better than an electric grinder twice its price. Electric grinders like The Baratza Encore Esp and Fellow Opus are often recommended, not because they are great grinders, but they are the minimum you want to go to get acceptable espresso grinds. And with that come lots of compromises in terms of build quality - lots of plastics, motor, etc. and grind quality - retention, clumping, adjustability, and consistency. Bear in mind that these things may not be a deal breaker for beginners and most home users. I’ve even seen an Opus being used in a pop up cart with a La Marzocco Linea Micra (it was being promoted by the shop that was selling them) and they were producing great shots because the shop had already dialled everything in, and nobody was scrutinising all these details. At home, it can be a different story. There are always new grinder models coming in every few months, the latest being the DF54, but since that’s only announced for pre-order, it’s hard to really know the long term performance of these things. In any case, espresso is an expensive hobby. There is a floor to how cheap you can go and still have a good time.

Most grinders can. From the budget end like the Encore ESP all the way up to the premium stuff. And most people do have just 1 grinder. Or one electric for espresso and one hand grinder for filter (because it’s much easier to grind for filter) It’s only this sub that are the enthusiast outliers. The problem for those fussy enough about it, isn’t so much as the grinder not being able to do double duty, but the hassle of getting back espresso settings after grinding for filter.

Baratza Encore ESP. $200. Nothing cheaper than this will make decent espresso, unless you hand grind. Don't recommend hand grinding. Same price range Turin DF 54. Save up for the usable grinder or you will buy it twice.

I have an Encore ESP and an SK40. I much prefer the SK40. I believe it’s around $199.

You'd think with the latest videos from Lance and the Hoff, this decision should be easier, but... I'm currently running a Baratz Encore, which I've had for over eight years. I recently replaced the motor and put the M.2 burrs in it, but I'm not overly enthused by the results. I generally brew with a Fellow Stagg [X], or a V60, occasionally with a Clever Dripper; I also have an Aeropress. I fancy trying some flat burrs, but there are too many grinders to choose from, and all the YouTube content about all the different options is just. Too. Much. I'm in the UK and the distributor of the Timemore Sculptors is out of stock (no I'm not buying white, everything in my kitchen is black), otherwise I'd probably have gone for a Sculptor 064. I'm not too fussed with the looks of the DF[whatever], most of the latest variants are all pre-order anyway. Plus, I don't want to buy a grinder and have to immediately switch out he burrs for something else... So I've narrowed it down to the Fellow Ode Gen 2, or a Niche Duo with the filter burrs. It's one of those, or sell a kidney and buy a Zerno. Unless there's something else I should consider...? Head says get the Ode, plenty of money to spend on other things. Heart says splurge and get the Niche.

I completely agree. Putting Baratza Encore ESP on the same tier as Webber EG1 😅

>And would you recommend an electrical or handgrinder? At "student budget" your only realistic option is a hand grinder IMHO. You can check out a bunch of options like Timemore Chestnut C3esp, something from 1ZPRESSO etc. If you look around, you should be able find something below or around $100. Electric grinders are just much more expensive for the same quality. The bare minimum required for espresso is something like Baratza Encore ESP or maybe Fellow Opus (if you don't mind it's weird fine adjustment system) - both going for ballpark of $200.

I think they're better, much quieter and much easier to clean. For pourover and drip they're the best and coffee tastes better with less burn. For espresso or similar I would use an electric because it's harder to grind and also you don't need the nuance. I use an Encore ESP

This is me with first, Encore ESP, then got a K6. Both taste very similar, and I mean delicious coffee from both, but again the electrical is a total mess to clean, the hand grinder is a breeze using the brush and bulb blower, with much less residue.

I have the same but no longer doing espresso, trying to figure best setting number for medium roast pour over. Which is good from 20 to 40 in the burr?

Ok thanks! I was wondering because everywhere I read recommends over 25 and my results too tart (acidic), so finner sounds about right. I'll try 22 and go down from there. Thank you!!

I have the encore ESP and it has broken six months after having it. They sent me a replacement. I’ve had that for seven months and now that broke not due to negligence because I have been keeping it clean. I don’t know what’s going on. I use freshly roasted beans from a Good company so I don’t know what’s going on.!!! Ugh

To start, the DF54 is an excellent grinder. It was easy to dial in and the results were as good or better than with my KINGrinder K6 or the Baratza Encore ESP. Because this was my first serious electric grinder, I had some issues and questions in the beginning but resolved most of them by looking at some DF64 videos that applied to the DF54. Barret from Espresso Outlet also clarified some items. If you don't think the DF54 is a serious grinder, talk to my wife about the bill Here are some of the things I learned. **Support** For faster response, email is preferred. I prefer telephone. It took awhile but I did connect with Barrett and he patiently went through my questions. **Clogging** My DF54 worked fine for a week or so but started cloggling when grinding medium dark roasts - three times in a row after cleaning twice. After a thorough cleaning following a YT for the DF64, I tried hot starting and that seemed to solve the problem. One other owner on Reddit had the same problem but no others reported issues - with even very dark roasts. Barrett said he had not seen the issue at all on the DF54 *EDIT* I've been slow feeding and hot starting (turning on grinder before adding beans) for a month with no clogging. Recently, I accidentally dumped in 18 grams without slow feeding and it choked again. **Range** Espresso range is about 4 to 7 on the dial for my unit. Much more narrow than I expected. Dialing in 35 second shot with light roast beans is about 5 or 6 on the dial. Barrett said that is about right on the DF54. YMMV. *EDIT* On further use, with different beans, the espresso range on my unit is 4 to 12. The pourover range is broader, about 55 to 70. **Should you check alignment?** Some YT influencers say check alignment with new grinders.Others say don't bother unless you have a problem. Barrett says don't bother. They check most of the units. Also, smaller burrs like the 54mm aren't likely to have problems as larger burrs like 83mm. Finally, Barrett says smaller burrs are much harder to align and that even if they're 15% or so off, will not affect the performance noticably. If you are thinking about aligning your DF54, I recommend contacting your seller first for guidance. **Seasoning the burrs worth the time and coffee?** Barrett says no, and you could burn out the motor running it for twenty minutes or more at a time. Spromethius says in a YT on the topic that seasoning makes no difference in taste after many comparisons with different grinders. If you get a any new grinder, then go with manufacturers recommendations. *Edited to delete misinformation I repeated that seasoning can affect the life of the burrs. Mea Culpa. My bad.* **How do you avoid damaging the anti-clog device and the ionizer?** Be careful. See the YouTube uploaded today. [Turin Ion Cleaning -DF Grinder Maintenance](https://youtu.be/GEk3HKKidYk?si=rf5l1G_puXUZtK9v) **Cleaning** Barrett says ownets actually over clean. Pump the bellows and clear the chute after each use. Clean the chute with a screw driver and/or brush once a week. Remove the burr assembly and thoroughly clean once or twice a year. **Tips** You might/probably know of them but I came up with these solutions while tuning up the DF54. *Toothbrush* Use a disposable electric toothbrush to remove fine coffee powder or oil from threads when cleaning. I tried micro fiber rags with no luck getting to the residual oils or powder but the toothbrush worked in 30 seconds. Manual brush will probably work almost as well. *Dialing In* If you have an old grinder like a KINGrinder K6 or Baratza that has been dialed in for different brewing methods like pourover, AeroPress , etc, grind 5 or 6 beans in that grinder as your benchmark for that brewer. Then start doing the same in the DF54, adjusting until you get an approximate visual and texture match. That will get you a starting point for your new grinder. * **ALWAYS RUN GRINDER WHEN CHANGING GRIND SIZE. - ESPECIALLY COURSE TO FINER. Otherwise, you can JAM or damage the grinder. Applies to most consumer grade grinders.*** *Chirping when changing grind setting.* That sounds is almost certainly not the burrs touching. Rather it is a bean or bean fragments left between the burrs. Videos [Doesn't Grind Fine Enough](https://youtu.be/hzp5cI7wOWc?si=B0aTujcbmNGeSDkT) [Cleaning DF64 and Clearing Jams](https://youtu.be/hzp5cI7wOWc?si=B0aTujcbmNGeSDkT) Yesterday, Barrett says they will be producing some DF54 centric YouTube videos soon. The first dropped today on the ionizer link above. I will edit/monitor this post to keep current for a while. EDIT: *DF54 vs Baratza ESP - Coffee Chronicler* https://youtu.be/eb_5H8uydQs?si=HJnm-nT-eTNFW05r Thanks Pax

I don't have the experience base to answer fully. While waiting to be loaded the DF54 runs at a quiet hum. When grinding, it is noticably quieter than my Encore ESP.. Practically speaking I'll use the DF54 early morning without too much concern of waking the wife. I wouldn't use the ESP if someone was sleeping. Bottom line, DF54 noise isn't an issue at all for me. Pax

Your coffee tastes acidic as the OXO is not grinding fine enough, likely underacting the coffee. I had this same OXO grinder when I started my journey and it was not fine enough at setting one. You will need to upgrade to a specific espresso grinder like Baratza ESP, DF54 (my rec) or Kinggrinder K6 (manual affordable option)

Been using the esp for about 2 weeks, It's the best grinder I've used till date. I've tried light, light plus, medium and medium dark and was able to dial in on at least an 8.5/10 shot in under 3 attempts, usually got it on the 2nd shot. It gives you a lot of room to play with. My biggest gripe with it is bean retention, especially if you prefer beans that are darker/oilier.

Baratza Encore! Used mine for 10 years and gave it to my son in law when I upgraded to an ODE. User serviceable, just great. I recently gifted the Baratza Encore esp to my brother. Very nice, but not necessary for Aeropress.

1. Manual grinders are not that bad if you're grinding for 1 cup. But not timemore c2. Get something long lasting like kingrinder k6, 1zpresso, etc. 2. In addition to being electric, electric grinders bring a level of consistency in brewing process. Hand grinder output can change based on how fast you're rotating, what angle you're holding the grinder at, etc. But if you must get an electric, dont cheap out. Cheap grinders will not grind fine and consistent enough to be respectable. The bare minimum is bartaza encore esp or the best budget being df54.

Baratza ESP has served me very well

Can vouch for the Baratza Encore ESP. Had it for over 2 months now and have gotten consistent results. Worth the money IMO

Just echoing part of this, I've seen many home baristas here say that they ultimately tired of making drinks for themself and for a partner--one person and drink, fine, but going beyond that . . . . That being said, and pardon me for going there, but there is something nicely almost ritualistic about hand-grinding. Assuming that it doesn't go too far: my 2.5-3 minute grind with my name-brand but sub-standard original hand-grinder was pushing it, lol. A J-Ultra, on the other hand, would be a different experience, certainly with darker roasts. OP, a word about the Encore ESP: it actually is a sweet unit, at its US$199 price. (Note that it sometimes, albeit rarely, has gone on discount, at 20% off. Nov./Black Friday season is a target--I saw it on sale once or twice then last year, once during a Sur La Table friends-and-family sale.) I've been using the grinder for 17+ months now, with fine results; some people will report some retention, which I rarely have--perhaps it helps that I give the top of the machine a couple of "'atta boy" taps and a bellows-ing as my grind is finishing. I would like if it had more grind steps (I'm the guy who always would like more pockets)--but it is what it is, at its price-point, and certainly is workable. I single dose with it and, to save time and a step, grind straight into my portafilter (with a dosing funnel on top) held directly under the grounds chute--easy and no mess. It's a compact unit (I added Baratza's single dose hopper to it, to make it even more so--a nice deal from Baratza, at US$24), and I like its internal cavity approach--it helps keep things tidy. Perhaps most importantly, I enjoy the perhaps stereotypical conical burr flavor profile it delivers for a "traditional" dark and medium roast--a nice, velvety feel that pairs well with chocolate tones. Of course, since the time that the Encore ESP came out, the DF54 has come out (Mar.-Apr. 2024) and received positive review, including from consumers. US$229; you might want to check the grinder out--there are many posts here on it. Some people have reported some retention/static, others reporting that this easily can be handled with some simple, routine cleaning. As I've seen it discussed here, the DF54 delivers a somewhat stereotypical flat burr flavor profile, with less body than a conical burr grinder but more clarity.

Have had the Baratza Encore ESP for 19+ months (usage 1-2x/day); no issue, no broken anything, I leave it alone and it simply does its job, nicely. :) (And note, the original, \*non-ESP\* Encore was not designed for espresso.) You also may want to consider a hand-grinder; the KinGrinder K4 and K6 often get recommended here for their quality/output/price ratio; and the \*very\* nice 1Zpresso J-Ultra with its small grind steps (and 2x the KinGrinder K4 and K6 price) currently is on a great (and rare) sale, e.g. at the 1Zpresso website and some Amazon sites.

>Oh wait, there is Encore ESP and Fellow Opus, both having the same amount or even more issues and without stepless adjustment.  I'm not knocking the DF54 whatsoever, and don't even disagree with much of what you say and may even end up with one, for a flat-burr experience. But no, I haven't experienced issue with my Baratza Encore ESP ("the same amount or even more issues"), now at 16+ months. And just a nice fact with Baratza (if it has in-country distribution), Baratza's post-sale customer support, which at least in the past was seen as pretty good, even post-warranty.

For me, my Baratza Encore ESP is no noisier than other kitchen appliances, and less loud than a blender. And it's only for a \~20-second grind. (Perhaps I would find matters different if I lived in a home with thin walls and with a baby or neighbors right next-door.) Otherwise, espresso guru James Hoffmann has a recent video in which he discusses/reviews/rates entry-level espresso grinders--recommended. (The video also shows the grinders in action, including their sound levels--not a monumental difference there, it seems to me.) He includes the Baratza Encore ESP, DF54, Fellow Opus, and Smart Grinder Pro. https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1gu8612/the\_best\_espresso\_grinder\_under\_250\_james\_hoffmann/.

If you haven't yet done so, I'd also consider the DF54. Try a search here the past 6 weeks--numerous posts and comments. I'm not sure about the big thing with a timer. With my Baratza Encore ESP, I hold my portafilter, with a dosing funnel on top, directly under the grinder's grounds chute and 20 seconds later I'm done--no mess, no fuss (and I get +/- no retention besides, with a few "love taps" at the end of the grind) .

My Baratza Encore ESP, now at 16+ months of use, has been a great way to get started, and beyond. Note: you want the Baratza Encore ESP, not the original Baratza Encore (non-ESP) which was not designed for espresso.

I know that it's at a "lesser level" than what you've stated, but I wonder if the Baratza Encore ESP might suit your needs. Gives a "traditional" (and nice) conical burr flavor profile with medium and dark roasts. I get little/no retention with it, perhaps due to the "'atta boy" pats I give its top as my grind is finishing up, perhaps also with an ending bellows-ing. Baratza and third-party manfs. also sell single-dose hoppers for the grinder (the Baratza version is especially nice price-wise), although the included hopper is perfectly fine for single-dosing. That being said, the Baratza Sette 270Wi always attracts me, with its grind-to-weight functionality (do note, however, possible issues with the grinder, which Baratza, from user reports, attempts to handle if they arise).

Just to add: I had asked, here, about the flavor profile aspect of the DF54 when it first came out, trying to get a feel for whether the grinder can produce a somewhat typical conical burr flavor profile with dark roast beans. Little info. as to that. Interestingly, a new DF54 owner told me that in some blind taste-testing with friends, some of his friends actually preferred the Encore ESP, for its "traditional" dark-roast creaminess. My conclusion seems to be that the generalization as to conical and flat burrs and the flavor profiles they produce may bear some truth in regard to the DF54 (subject, of course, to the particulars of a specific grinder--each grinder stands on its own, in the end, with its own characteristics). I should also note that the new DF54 owner mentioned here liked his grinder and recommended it.

The Baratza Sette 270Wi "call to fame" feature is that it will grind to weight: you input the weight output that you would like, store the setting, and thereafter, the machine automatically will grind that weight of a dose with a single button press, pulling the exact amount of beans that are needed from the bean hopper--there is a scale built into the grinder, controlling the process. Talk about streamlining the process--no manual weighing of beans required. And from user reports, the machine is very accurate as to the weight (I typically see users mentioning within a few tenths of a gram). The 270Wi uses plastic gears and some users have reported gear issues in the past--I've seen photos of mangled gear assemblies and it's a bit frightening. To its credit, some users have reported that Baratza has provided a free replacement gear assembly when a user has raised a gear assembly issue, even beyond the warranty period and with used equipment (Baratza's customer service has been complimented in the past, at least in the U.S.--I don't know about support in the EU), and I believe that there has been some (limited?) re-design. But, still. Also, the 270Wi is known to be a louder grinder (mind, a typical espresso grind is going to be around only 5 seconds). Although much has been made of this, it doesn't seem to be any more than other kitchen appliances, e.g. a blender. But it could be a factor if there are others in the household, such as a baby. I've had the Baratza Encore ESP for 18 months and it's done well by me, as an espresso-grade, entry-level burr grinder. Some people have had an issue with some ground coffee retention--I don't typically have that, perhaps due to the couple of taps that I give the top of the grinder as the grind is finishing, along with a bellows-ing of the top of the bean hopper. The one feature that I wish was different is that I wish that there were in-between grind level steps between the current grind level steps--it would add more precision, although the grinder is totally workable as is, and I understand the price-point factor.

OP, some people like the Opus, but please know its idiosyncrasies going in. An earlier (2023) pro reviewer (Kyle Rowsell) video on the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP (a nice grinder option), plus other, electric grinders, and in comparison, that may be helpful and informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_iSvPdkWfQ. This year's "poster child" as a good entry-level grinder, the DF54 (US$229). \*Many\* posts here, and elsewhere, to read up on it. E.g.: The Real Sprometheus -- DF54 vs. DF64 | How Much Difference Can 10 Millimeters Make?, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw\_G6tQYJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw_G6tQYJc) (bottom line: the two grinders with similar output; the DF54 with a slower grind (but still fine); the DF54 with lesser (any?) alternative burr availability (right now); and the DF54 less expensive, lighter, and smaller than the DF64Gen2).

OP: An earlier (2023) pro reviewer (Kyle Rowsell) video on the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP, plus other, electric grinders, and in comparison, that may be helpful and informative, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_iSvPdkWfQ. Recommended, if going there, that you go into a purchase of the Opus fully knowing its pro's and con's. I've had the Baratza Encore ESP (make sure that it is the ESP version, not the earlier simply Encore version) for over 19 months now, and its done its job. This year's "poster child" as a good entry-level grinder, the DF54 (US$229). \*Many\* posts here, and elsewhere, to read up on it. E.g.: The Real Sprometheus -- DF54 vs. DF64 | How Much Difference Can 10 Millimeters Make?, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw\_G6tQYJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw_G6tQYJc). And a most recent take on entry-level grinders, by espresso guru James Hoffmann, and considering each of these grinders: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1gu8612/the\_best\_espresso\_grinder\_under\_250\_james\_hoffmann/.

The DF54 indeed has been available on Amazon, thru MiiCoffee as seller (stock permitting)--indeed, a potentially beneficial way to purchase the grinder, with Amazon customer service protection and the possibility of a free-return-shipping return/return privilege rights. If I had to guess, at its already low price-point, a sales discount on the grinder (e.g. for Black Friday, etc.) seems less likely. The Baratza Encore ESP has had very occasional discount pricing--not at all frequent. Nov./Black Friday season is a good possibility, including with store friends-and-family events (e.g. last year, at Sur La Table). The discount typically has been 20% off. Important to consider, a grinder's flavor profile and how that fits your preference. I had asked, here, about the flavor profile aspect of the DF54 when it first came out, trying to get a feel for whether the grinder can produce a somewhat typical conical burr flavor profile with dark roast beans. Little info. as to that. Interestingly, though, a new DF54 owner told me that in some blind taste-testing with friends, some of his friends actually preferred the Encore ESP, for its "traditional" dark-roast creaminess. My conclusion seems to be that the generalization as to conical and flat burrs and the flavor profiles they produce may bear some truth in regard to the DF54 (subject, of course, to the particulars of a specific grinder--each grinder stands on its own, in the end, with its own characteristics). I should also note that the new DF54 owner mentioned here liked the grinder and recommended it.

From your description, the DF54 might be ideal for you. (As a gross generalization, from what I've read here, the DF54 does well for for lighter roasts in addition to generally--think, generally, flat burr grinders--while the Encore ESP has a more "traditional" conical burr grinder flavor profile--think, esp., darker roasts with a creamy chocolatiness.) If I were you, I'd think about the DF54 via Amazon as being offered by MiiCoffee as the seller. (And I probably wouldn't wait--it perhaps is unlikely, with its current price-point, that the price will be discounted--and the grinder goes in and out of stock.) The advantage of purchasing via Amazon, where MiiCoffee is the seller but Amazon the processor/shipper: at least for me, the grinder comes with Amazon's 30-day, no-questions-asked return privilege, and any return-shipping can be free. And you also have Amazon's customer service/support should there be any issue, in addition to that from MiiCoffee. I should add: I've been satisfied with my Encore ESP, for 18 months, now. But I purchased when the Encore ESP was newly-out--the DF54 came out a year later. Candidly, if I were purchasing today, I don't know which way I would go--but that indecision in part is driven by the fact that at least right now, I'm a dark-roast guy, a strong-point for the Encore ESP.

I will be honest man, I had a baratza encore esp, fellow opus and a sd40s. Firsty, the fellow is terrible, other than looking amazing its crap compared to these other 2. Baratza is good, but loud, low quality plastic and hard to dial in being that its stepped. The sd40s is much much better than these other 2. I was surprised how good it is. I am not a fan of buying from these chinese brands but wow do they make some amazing grinders.

My Baratza esp has been solid and their customer service is top notch!

I have an Encore ESP- it produces a very inconsistent grind! Totally eclipsed by my Timemore C2

I have a Baratza Esp i use for my espresso and my GF Aeropress. I use a 1zpresso q2 for my specialty coffee aeropress. It's about $100, and i highly recommend it!

I had the previous model and the burr holder broke it's clips after a few weeks. As such I could not grind fine at all and was stuck with a pour over grinder... Could not find a replacement part in EU for more than a year and I refused to spend $50 to import it from Canada. I would avoid any and all products from baratza and I would chose a good manual grinder.

You should go for DF64 gen 2. That’s the entry point of authentic electric grinder. All are waste under the range if you want perfection. And if you can’t bring up the budget then atleast go for baratza encore esp. Also you can buy manual grinder like Hario (Perfection in your budget).

yeah the encore esp would be good because it would also be an upgrade over your sage built in grinder, so you could use it for espresso too. i’m not sure if they sell it with the single dose hopper and dosing cup, but you would definitely want to weigh and single dose your beans if you’re looking to improve your espresso and get consistent results with the aeropress. i suggested a hand grinder in my other comments but if you want a grinder to also upgrade your sage built in grinder then i would go electric and do the baratza encore esp or spend more for a df54.

I was hand grinding, it was fine for just AeroPress but other times I wanted to make more using a Chemex or French Press. I just got a Barazta Encore ESP. They make a single dose hopper that I plan on getting for smaller amounts

I don't have an espresso maker so I can't speak for that aspect. It doesn't do timed or weighted doses so you will have to pre-weigh your beans. But for the cost it's done what I wanted which is to not hand grind larger amounts. Before I knew very much about coffee I had a Cuisinart burr grinder and the ESP is miles ahead of it in terms of volume, speed, and grind size consistency.

Nah, I tweaked a bit with it, and the best you can get out of it, is a decent shot, no way you get a 'prefect' shot. If espresso is your primary goal, this won't do the job. I can get you the occasional shot for an iced americano, but not really a proper espresso. Its like 1/6th the price of the encore esp, but gets to 4/6 the results. Lets just put it that way.

Encore is good, its design is dated, and its a bit lousy to use. But its still a solid entry to grinding for Espresso. I've heard decent things about the DF64, but personally, at that stage, I'd get something from Fellow, looks a lot cleaner, something like the Fellow Opus.

Others have mentioned the Baratza Encore ESP and the 1Zpresso. I have both the ESP and the 1Zpresso Q2 S. I used the Q2 for a year hand grinding and it goes a great job, but the grinder does need some cleaning each time due to static/fines. After a year I switched to the ESP and much prefer it. I added a [rubber bellows](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BKL4BVLG/) for about $11 which lets me pump a little air through to push the retained grounds out. The ESP works really well for Aeropress. The numbers are different to the standard Encore but I set it on 15 for the metal filter, 16 for the Prismo and 18 for paper filters. I brew cold brew (immersion) too and set it around 30 for that. I also really like that the ESP comes with a single dose container which seals to the top of the Aeropress when adding grounds - it's a nice touch that stops anything escaping onto the counter. Hope this helps!

On the ESP I find 16 is a good setting for AeroPress or for fresh espresso beans (18g works well in the single walled basket on my Bambino). On older store-bought espresso I dial it up to 18 and use 16g in the double walled basket, which gives more like a 1:3 ratio—which works well for milk drinks (and store bought espresso…) When I make cold brew (immersion method) or filter coffee, I dial up to 30. Hope that helps!

This grinder is absolutely amazing... for drip coffee and French press. I use this grinder for my wife's coffee as she really likes drip coffee done with very dark beans, which are naturally oily by nature. Don't use this grinder for moka pot. The grind isn't fine enough not is it uniform enough. I'm gonna keep it real, great moka is a result of financial privilege. Save your money and buy the Baratza Encore ESP or something at that tier ($200 USD). This grinder is passable for moka though. I used to use it all the time for my moka grounds. But it sucked in comparison to something like what the Baratza produces.

Compared to much more expensive grinders. How about grinders in the same pricepoint? Oh wait, there is Encore ESP and Fellow Opus, both having the same amount or even more issues and without stepless adjustment. And then there are more Chinese grinders with random issues. Buy cheap, get cheap and just know that in this range even the cheapest Eurekas have issues. The properties in the DF54 overrun the issues that are a many, but not everyone has those. Typical Chinese lottery. At least with Opus and Encore ESP you pretty much know what you are getting without surprises. I've had the DF54 for months now and there is no static even with the plastic cup as long as I clean the chute with a tube brush every now and then. Absolutely 0 clogging issues. Very puffy and beatiful coffee powder without clumps. Some retention, nothing major. Not too noisy. A bit on the slow side. My advice: buy a DF54 and return it until you get a good sample or buy more expensive known brand grinders.

Note this model grind numbers are very different than the non ESP....so start in the mid 20's to find your optimum if you go this way.

Baratzas are well reviewed by places like Americas Test Kitchen and (I believe?) Wirecutter. I went with that and have been happy.

I have the Baratza encore esp

Anyone buy Breville refurbished from factory. Grinder and bambino are well priced. Love my bambino with baratza esp.

I have the baratza esp and it gets the job done, I wouldn't over think it. It is loud, but it doesn't bother me, but if it is important for you keep it in mind

I enjoyed my encore esp. Baratza is a great brand with the best customer service around where DF grinders leave you in the dark in that aspect and might not have the build quality to last long (although people swear by them so I can’t comment)

I’ve got a Bambino and a Baratza ESP setup. Bambino is incredible, I highly recommend it. Especially for the price

Nice! In that case I would go for the Breville and probably a Baratza Encore ESP for the grinder, should be $500 total

Baratza ESP encore but if I were you I would drop the bambino plus and get a Bambino classic and take a DF54 grinder.

Make sure to get the Baratza encore ESP as the normal one isn’t designed for espresso

Just to contextualize what I'm about to say I intially bought a Baratza Encore ESP and have since bought a K-Ultra so I feel like I can recommend that you stick to the Baratza as your use case seems to fit it better. My primary reason for my move is that I felt that the Encore ESP dialed in too broadly and produced too many fines for pourover which is my primary brew method. When I've used it for french press on the other hand I felt it worked perfectly well and I've not noticed any notable improvements to my brews when I use my K-Ultra even if it produces a relatively smaller amount of fines. Naturally this is as french press is a inherently more forgiving way to brew. In addition to this as somebody else has pointed out the workflow for the K-Ultra for 50g per dose is not ideal. Whilst it will grind fast at a relatively high setting I don't even think that many can fit in the chamber of most hand grinders so you will have to do your grinds in two batches for one brew. Additionally whilst I do not own an espresso machine I did season the burrs on my K-Ultra with some very old starbucks coffee on the lower settings just to try it out and even \~20 grams takes a not insiginficant amount of time to grind out. I would say definitely get the Encore ESP in your case or even consider looking at a df54.

Yep. There are decent conical burr grinders out there especially for espresso. The Baratza Encore ESP and Fellow Opus are two good ones around $200. The DF54 is a good flat burr grinder for just over $200 but I think its sold out.

Before going with Opus, make sure you understand its Byzantine adjustment mechanism with macro and micro adjustments. I would much prefer a Baratza ESP or DF54 to the Opus.

Ah yeah I would agree, it’s probably not very good. If you’re looking for manual, the lineup from 1zpresso or Kingrinder is great. For electric, Baratza Encore ESP, Fellow Opus, or something from the DF series. All of these (aside from the DF) are conical burrs, and will be a massive upgrade from a $20 hand grinder.

The Opus is great. The only thing I’d consider is the grind adjustment system, there is a standard dial for macro adjustments and then a second internal dial for more precise dialing in, which could be a bit confusing for beginners. But it’s pretty head-to-head with the Baratza Encore ESP. The Opus is certainly quieter and easier on the eyes.

Unless you’re open to a hand grinder, the best electric recommendations in that price range are going to be the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP. I tend to lean towards the Baratza because their brand has a reputation for longevity (and customer support, if you’re in the US). The Fellow is good, but the dialing system can be a bit more challenging for beginners, and I find the build quality to be a bit less sturdy (re: there have been cases of the plastic base starting to crack from tapping/hitting grinds out). Though, if volume and overall sound of grinding is important to you, you may prefer the Fellow. It’s more of a low hum, as opposed to a loud, more high-pitched sound on the Baratza.

That was my first grinder, does the job. Today I’d replace it with a Baratza Encore ESP or something from Fellow as the next step up.

Surprising that no one has recommended a niche zero. Goes well with Bambino, just upgraded from baratza encore esp which is not bad either. The niche zero might be more expensive than 500$ with shipping. On my research, it is a tried and long lasting machine. I drink predominantly milk based drinks so the difference between a flat burr and conical burr, IMHO did not matter much. Niche zero has a great workflow, looks solidly built, and I expect a good customer service too but haven’t needed that. The thing with df64 in my mind is that I might go into a bigger rabbit hole with trying to change the burrs.

I second this. it's a very solid flat burr grinder with a lot of range from filter coffee to espresso. Build quality is fantastic, but it is a single dose grinder, so if you are looking for something with a hopper that can grind through larger amounts, then Baratza Encore ESP is a good introductory grinder with espresso range

Get the encore esp. if you’re in the states, perc coffee has a sale every 13th of the month. You can get it for 31% off. Makes it a very good deal.

Baratza ESP is a clear winner for the money. Even Lance Hedrick gives it an A for all it can do. You’ll only need to endure the signature Encore noise profile for a few seconds every day. Side note: get a single dose hopper.

I got mine through Perc coffee in Savannah GA during their monthly sale for $138. I stand by this decision.

Be sure to add the washers after a few months of use. The helped my ESP go to the next level.

I got the Baratza ESP and just realized two days ago that the grinder is not what is holding me back from good shots but other stuff - which I methodically worked on with your espresso series and finally was able to turn a sour shot into a much more balanced one. Seeing you say that you like shots out of the ESP manifests this. Been waiting for this video. Thank you very much!

Yeah I am quite satisfied with my Flair 58+ (on sale) and Encore ESP combo.

i just put an extra shim in mine and it really does make a significant difference. Setting 4 with a nice Brazil light roast on my Flair 58 is the best espresso I've ever made.

Does anyone else have issues with the Encore ESP when brewing pourover? Produces too many fines and tends to clog up the filter.

That feeling when Daddy Hoff validates your choice to purchase an Encore ESP last year.

It's not that it doesn't grind well enough for espresso.  It's that espresso requires extremely precise grind sizes, and most grinders have far too coarse grind selection sizes. Your best bet?  Get an espresso capable grinder.  A Baratza Encore ESP is a reasonably priced electric grinder, and the KinGrinder K6 is a reasonably priced hand grinder.

>the grinder says it can do espresso grinds Yeah, this is an annoying thing a lot of manufacturers do. The grind fineness may be in the espresso range, but you really need that fine control to actually use it for espresso. Typically, when a grinder has a handful of grind selection settings (the OXO grinder says it has 15 total selections), that's a good way to know that the grinder is just not made for espresso. Compare this to the Baratza Encore ESP -- it has 40 total grind settings, with half of the settings having a finer resolution in the espresso range. The KinGrinder has 60 settings per rotation, 4 rotations total. My grinder -- the Eureka Mignon Crono, a lower mid tier grinder -- has an infinitely adjustable grind selection mechanism. This is typical of what you'd see for an espresso-dedicated grinder. >how does 1 determine the correct grind size of the sizing is essentially infinite on a slider? It's called dialing in, and this is the number one frustration for folks just getting started with espresso. The basic idea is to grind fine enough such that your shot takes about 30 seconds to brew, with finer grinds brewing longer than coarser ones. This is an extreme oversimplification, but it should be enough to get you started. >If I could figure out how to change it from a click to a slide that would solve the problem? Maybe? Removing the click setting also might cause the grind setting to move while the grinder is operating.

100% of people will say breville. cheapest grinder would be baratza encore esp. but id spend more and get a grinder you won't have to upgrade again, ie a df64. grinder is the most important part of good espresso.

I own the encore esp for aeropress and pourover. I feel as if it’s a good middle ground and allows me to get an espresso machine too. And what espresso machines would you recommend that are at the point just below ‘diminishing returns’

Came to say the same thing, content creators online recommended a couple other options but I got a good deal on an Encore esp and I’ve been overall quite happy with it

Would love to hear what grind settings everyone is using for coffee on the ESP. I use a Breville Precision Brewer with the cone filter and ever since I purchased the ESP a month ago I can’t get a good cup of coffee out of it. I’ve tried almost everything from 20-31 and it is always watery

Thank you! I’ve tried a wide range of coarseness/fineness and it is always watery. I use 15g of coffee for 250ml of water. I always used this ratio and always made great cups when I had a fellow ode gen 2. I’m wondering if it’s the heating element of the machine or something at this point. I know grinders are the most important, but I have a hard time believing that switching from the ode gen 2 to the esp makes it impossible to make drinkable coffee

I got the Fellow Opus, but that seems more geared towards pour-over coffee. It is capable of doing espresso as well; however, dialing in the coffee is finicky. The other one, which is similarly priced, would be the Baratza Encore ESP, which is made especially for espresso. James Hoffman recently made a video regarding coffee grinders in this range. You may want to check that on YouTube as well.

Comments like these are why the ESP was my first decent electric grinder.

Hmm, i push my percolator brews up to like ~34, perhaps it is the beans I use for percolator coffee, but i find any finer and the ESP makes too many fines in the "middle range" of its settings.

Encore ESP punches way above its weight! We use one for decaf espresso, V60 & Moccamaster grinding. The thing it gets right (a. Billion times better than an Eureka) is ease of adjustment.

I just got into the hobby and I got a Baratza Encore ESP. I don't really have anything to compare it to but so far I'm happy with it, does everything I need it to and seems to grind well.

Here are my settings on the ESP - 24 for single cup pour over (Zero Japan) - 26 for pour over carafe (wire basket) - 12 for espresso (Capresso Ultima Pro) - 28 for percolator (Coletti) If your coffee is watery, you may not be using enough coffee or the grind is too coarse allowing unpressurized water to pass too fas

I’m very new to percolation, 28 hit a decent spot but don’t use it enough to have tested different grinds

What this guy said ^ to echo I bought a fellow opus as well. I wanted to upgrade my pourover grinder . So I got the opus pourover mainly during the week and use the opus for espresso on the weekends . When I have time to savour the whole process better. I also wanted a single dose grinder, I prefer them over inadequate dose from the entry burr grinders and noise. One can just add exact beans to the empty hopper. The opus gets the job done but find has retention issues more so for espresso. I really like the different catch cups on the opus . It makes adding fine ground espresso so easy to my portifilters /dosing funnels . @ Alienfever I feel your pain ! As well @op the ESP was my second choice ! It's a solid grinder ! More solid than the opus ! I'm going from other coffee store recommendations as well as others ! Not to mention a pro like James Hoffman ! The ESP was another sixty bucks and doesn't really do pourover well ! So I couldn't justify the extra as my goal is to get a better grinder. Sooooo my response !t ! Op I'd suggest your budget ! What you want your grinder to all do ! How long you will have it ! I wasnt ready to invest in a better grinder than what I got. The opus will get used strictly as pour over once I get the espresso grinder of my dreams 🤩😍😅 this way my funds won't be totally wasted ! My espresso game stepped up amazingly with a 200 dollar grinder . Can't wait win a I get 600 to 800 dollar grinder. Choose wisely 😀

If you are in the US just get the Baratza Encore ESP. They’re built like tanks, super easy adjustments, great brand recognition and customer service, and on the off issue something doesn’t work well they’ll take care of you. All the parts are sold on their website Even if the DF54 is “better” I doubt anyone here has compared the two, further doubt it was blind comparison, and I doubt the difference is worth the trade off of reputation I’ve had my basic baratza encore for years. It’s had no issues. Makes great espresso. I love that thing and likely biased cause it’s been so great The only characteristic I can think of is noise level. Baratza ESP might be a bit louder than DF54

Baratza Encore ESP or DF54. I've had both, I stuck with the DF54. Not sure if the express has the baratza burrs but if it did id lean towards the DF54 Purely so I have a flat burr and cone burr for comparison.

# **Without philosophizing in the answer, you have two options: a handgrinder, or electric grinder.** — ## **🔹 Hand Grinders** ### **High-End Options:** - **1Zpresso K-Ultra** – External adjustment, versatile for both pourover & espresso. - **1Zpresso J-Max** – 8.8-micron steps, optimized for espresso but handles pourover. - **Kinu M47 Phoenix / Classic** – Precise & durable, great for both. - **Comandante C40 MK4** – Ideal for pourover; needs *Red Clix* for better espresso dialing. - **Timemore Chestnut S3** – Stepless adjustment, more suited for pourover. - **1Zpresso ZP6** – Produces ultra-clean grinds, excelling in filter brews. ### **Mid-Range Options:** - **1Zpresso JX-Pro** – Espresso-friendly with finer adjustments than JX. - **Timemore Chestnut C3 ESP** – Budget option with espresso-compatible burrs, decent for pourover. - **1Zpresso X-Pro** – Compact, external adjustment, slower but espresso-capable. — ## **⚡ Electric Grinders** ### **High-End Options:** - **Mahlkönig EK43** – The gold standard in specialty coffee shops. - **Weber EG-1** – Premium single-dose grinder for all brew methods. - **Lagom P100** – High-performance, SSP burr options for precision grinding. ### **Mid-Range / Prosumer Options:** - **DF64 Gen 2 / DF64P / DF64E** – Affordable single-dose grinders, great for both. - **Niche Zero** – Top-tier single-dose grinder for espresso & pourover. - **Eureka Mignon Specialita** – Stepless adjustment, solid for espresso & can handle pourover. - **Fellow Opus** – Budget-friendly, designed for both espresso & filter brewing. - **Baratza Vario+ / Sette 270** – Great entry-level grinders with micro-adjustments for espresso. - **Timemore Sculptor 078 / 064S** – New contenders with solid grind consistency. ### **Budget-Friendly Options:** - **Fellow Ode Gen 2** (Needs *SSP burrs* for espresso) – Excellent for pourover, but needs mods for espresso. - **Baratza Encore ESP** – Beginner-friendly with stepped adjustments. - **Eureka Mignon Crono** – Simple & effective for both espresso & filter. — 🔎 **Check reviews before buying**—grind quality & user experience vary. Preferences are subjective!

It's gonna depend somewhat on your budget. In the range of $150-$250 US, there are several good electric options. Off the top of my head, the Baratza Encore ESP, the Fellow Opus, and the DF54 are all solid options in this range. Size wise, the Encore ESP is smaller footprint but taller. The standard hopper adds some effective width and especially height to the unit. If you buy the single dose hopper then you can cut that down (but then you bump the price point up to about the same as the DF54). The DF54 is next up in size, and the Fellow Opus is the biggest of the three. None of them are huge. Of these three, it is sorta objectively hard to argue with the value for money on the DF54. Whether you like them better or not, flat burrs cost more to make, and it has those whereas the other two are conicals. But with that, you're buying from a middleman, which means you are counting on them to continue providing customer support, which they might just not do. I personally landed with a Baratza Encore ESP because the DF54 seemed to be sold out from distributors that could reach me when I was shopping, and because I knew that I would not be willing to do the microadjustment process for the Fellow Opus even if I found myself in a situation where it would be relevant. Baratza's general inclination towards right-to-repair is a nice bonus, but it makes less difference if you don't live in the US. For cheaper than that, you should probably consider a manual grinder, especially if you want (or might want in the future) the flexibility to make espresso without another machine. For more expensive than that, you open up even more options.

absolutely. the encore with the m2 burr set from the virtuoso will set someone up for life basically. and diminishing returns won't see much of an improvement by spending any more money. It's the sweet spot for drip coffee.

I just got the ESP. It’s a nice grinder, not too much retention, pretty loud, but not horribly so. I’ve read you can grind espresso at about setting 15, but on mine I have to bring it down to about 4-6 . It’s fine for darker roasts, but if you’re into “blond” coffee you might need to add the included shims to modify it. I suspect mine is slightly out of spec, but I haven’t tried to adjust burr placement yet. It comes with a large bin snd and a catch cup ( 54/58). My deLonghi uses a 51 mm portafilter so I just popped my metal catch cup inside the plastic one that comes with the Baratza and it’s fine. I’m having a bit of trouble loosening the burr holder but will ask someone with stronger hands to twist it off for me … I haven’t needed to thoroughly clean it yet, but checked accumulation and it’s not too bad. I spritz my beans lightly before grinding and that helps reduce static. I also bought a third party bellows which doesn’t seem to be flushing much excess. All in all, I like it. I was eyeing the Df54 which has rave reviews, but I wanted to option to grind more than one cup at a time and I wanted the flexibility to change grind size, since I also like moka pot coffee and pour over occasionally, etc . I also didn’t want to have to do a major disassembly every time it needed cleaning, and I trust Baratza’s customer service. If you have any questions, I’m happy to answer. If you’re only making coffee in moka pot , this would be a fine choice, but the regular baratza encore is $50 less and would likely serve just as well. ( it’s louder and I prefer the newer burr in the ESP)

Anything longer than 30 second prep doesn’t work for me in the morning. I can futz with espresso later in the day, but I need my first cup in order to even consider fiddling. This grinder is pretty fast. If it were a tiny bit quieter it would be perfect

I found it interesting that no one has mentioned the baratza encore esp since it's about the same price as the opus, and in head to head comparisons, many times preferred or tied to the fellow opus. I'm trying to decide between them, and I will be looking out for any upcoming black friday deals. I am almost hoping one is on sale and the other isn't because I am indecisive. I like the way the fellow looks on the counter better, but I like that the Encore esp is tried&true and is very serviceable. I haven't read much with the Fellow being serviceable.

Bambino! + baratza encore esp is great option

I have an encore esp and I'm being plagued by clumping and retention. I thought of getting a DF54 cause that's all my budget is atm, but thought that that would have been more of a side grade than an upgrade. Plus that grinder also had some clumping and static issues so I decided to not get a grinder till next year, save up for a df65. But then I saw this post, and another, and thought to try this one out. Ordered from Amazon US cause it's not sold on Amazon Canada. Had to pay $15 shipping and $17 customs (USD), for a total of around $157 US which was the cheapest. Waiting patiently for it to arrive!

Yeah pretty much, that's what it looked like. It would not leave the esp's grind chamber until new coffee forced it out in the form of clumps. I haven't had the time to write a review but another Redditor asked me the same question. DM me I'll copy paste my replies to them to you.

Just looking at it, I can see it's got the same internal design as the burr grinder Cuisinart has been making for decades now. It's better than a blade grinder, but it's on the lowest quality rung of electric burr grinders. The cheapest baratza is significantly better.

Imo if you truly care about taste get df54 or a k6 hand grinder, any less would just be e waste in a yr. If you want just better coffee, get a used encore, or some other listed here, doesn't really matter

Get a used encore. I just sold mine for $75. You should be able to find similar deals.