I have quite a few “end game” pour over grinders - like the Weber EG-1, Kafatek M98V, Lagom 01, Kafatek Max 2 with SCRv2 burrs - and about a dozen other grinders. I’ve also used most of the other “titans” and quite a few burrs across the different platforms.
With the above said - I’d say two things.
1. There is no such thing as the “true end game grinder” - it isn’t about the grinder. It’s about your personal preference and what you hunt/seek and how much you’re willing to tweak water comps and such in tandem around the tools to achieve the end goal you seek.
2. It’s the burr geometry that makes the biggest difference not the grinder. The same burr on different grinders can be different - but it’s minor compared to the actual geometry. Figure out 1, then figure out the burr that matches 1 above best - then look at grinder options that run that burr. There may be only one for some burrs.
I do have a favorite personally - but my favorite most certainly won’t be everyone’s - and certain grinders really excel with certain coffees. For example the Kafatek Max 2 with SCRv2 burrs has an eerie way of erasing funk from coffee and adding a surprising amount of body. If you like the expressive nature of naturals and co ferms but are turned off by the funky or yeasty notes, it can make those cups (properly brewed with the right water comp) taste shockingly clean and crisp - to the point where you could fool someone into thinking they’re a crazy expressive washed coffee. If that’s your jam, that might be your ultimate grinder.
Bottom line - there is no one size fits all and it’s unfortunately an incredibly nuanced and personal thing.
I have used friends P80’s with Mizens and SSP brews. I also own an EG-1. First and foremost - they taste surprisingly different with the same burr, the EG-1 is noticeably more dynamic and interesting in cup - and we have done SBS and we all strongly prefer the EG-1. This same exercise has been done on the other side of the country in Brooklyn at Hyunah, although they’ve also had a Zerno Z2 in the mix, and came to the same conclusion. Whether it’s the less rigid floating bottom carrier in the EG-1, or the RPM dynamic torque modulation - something meaningful is happening between the platforms. It’s also worth noting the P80 stalls under 1k rpm with the brew burrs, and generally needs 1300 rpm to perform best, where as the EG-1 will spin them at 500 rpm without issue, and ideal cups are often in the 700-800rpm range, where P80’s don’t seem to like to play with the brew burr.
The P80 is a great grinder, and for an Omni grinder to do both pour over and espresso, the stock Mizen burr is actually quite nice. If you’re considering the P80 for that use case, great - but if you’re looking for an ideal carrier to explore 80mm burrs, or as an EG-1 lite, I don’t think it will meet expectations.
I also own a Femobook A4Z, and I’d say for just about everyone it’s the optimal choice. Very forgiving wide dial range (meaning you can largely set a preferred grind setting and forget about it and get good cups without fiddling) provides excellent levels of clarity, with punchy cups that are never hollow or too thin, and the build quality and touch points are first rate and rival the P80. For pour over only, the A4Z is the point at which diminishing returns literally fall off a cliff. If you get to a point where you’re absolutely maxing out all your gear and skills and you’re water maxing, brew maxing, etc and have everything totally dialed and are looking for very specific profiles, then more expensive grinders/burrs make a meaningful difference, but at that point you’re not asking about a platform, and are nerding out on Burrtopia figuring out the optimal geometry for your desired outcomes and water comps.
That’s a challenging question to answer - as there aren’t simply two items or a small number of variables. For instance, the 102HU burr comes in three forms: 1. Uncoated 2. Red Speed 3. Silver Knight. I own both the red speed and silver knight 102 HU burrs, and the difference in cup is actually quite surprising. There have also been geometry revisions for both the 102HU and M98V’s SCRv3 burrs, and the revisions of both burrs actually taste very different - to the point where some famous YouTubers love one version and aren’t fans of the other. It just so happens that I have meaningful experience with all of the above as a friend of mine had lent me his red speed 102HU (old geometry) which I was able to compare to the new one, and I have a Kafatek Max 2 with SCRv2 burrs sitting next to my M98V, which actually taste almost identical in cup to the first iteration of the SCRv3 burrs that shipped with the M98V and my M98V has the latest SCRv3.2 burrs in it. I would agree with the YouTuber, that they’re very different tasting burrs - but I actually like both very much, but for different purposes.
Re-reading the above, it’s a bit of a mess - but the jiist is, so much depends on the specific coffees you drink, the water comps you use (and if you’re a water maxer) how good/sensitive your palate is, and how much you want to fiddle with dial ins to eek out those last percentage’s. At this level, all of these grinders are ridiculously good, but quite frankly very, very few owners of grinders of this caliber are taking advantage of their potential, and frankly would be better off simply getting an A4Z or the like and focusing on good beans and water. My experience though, is that folks asking about $3k+ grinders don’t want to hear that, and will end up buying one, or multiple “titan” grinders anyway - then make some pretty wild comments about how amazing they are due to confirmation bias which continues to propagate the mystique that all you have to do is buy some cool machine and you get amazing coffee.
So I was in your situation and this is what I recommend.
Machine:
Machine Slayer single group. Hands down. Haven't pulled a bad shot yet, looks amazing in stock form.
I considered LMLM but it doesn't look as good as the slayer on the sides. If you're stuffing it in a corner with the grinder hiding it, cool.
Sanremo You has just as many features as the Slayer, a couple more actually, but you have to decide between the style of your kitchen or coffee area. That is the only reason I did not buy this machine.
Water:
Do not buy any of these machines without a proper water setup. Needs depend on region and kitchen design so I won't recommend a specific setup. However, you'll need reverse osmosis with remineralization or you'll be rebuilding your machine sooner than later. Budget about 2.5k USD. Also, keep in mind that if you are only hooking up to your machine for two coffees a day and not using it for day-to-day water use you may have sediment issues from highly infrequent use. Consider adding a water spigot and enjoy the benefits of filtered water in your home to push the volume needed to have the system operate within spec.
Grinder:
Two key considerations ease and convenience of grind by weight (GBW) vs single dosing. Downside of GBW is when I have the occasional guest request decaf, I either have had to have pre-ground an entire bag and packaged and frozen each dose in between grinding. There's about 2 to 3 doses worth of beans in the chute of my grinder. That being said, if you have a favorite roast it's no problem. Single dose doesn't have this downside, but it's more tinkering and more time.
GBW:
-Mahlkönig E80s
-Fiorenzato all ground sense
Single Dose
-Kafatek monolith flat max if you're espresso only
-Titus nautilus if you're pour over or drip
Kafatek has specialized burrs that edged out the Titus for me. I'm espresso only. Nautilus has amazing customization options that go with Slayer, so check their Instagram. Remote power brick is manageable with Bluetooth controller since you'll have a plumbed in machine, but that's the big miss on this high end machine.
-Weber eg-1 gets honorable mention but I don't think the build tolerance and quality matches either other option.
Best of luck, let us know what you pick.
Grinder is a hard ask, perfect grinder technically would be a Sanremo X-One, but it is huge and financially only good sense for a shop (it replaces 3 grinders so at about 8000€ not too bad), coupled with a Sanremo espresso machine and a RO with remineralizing filter for water. Told my misses about this one and she was a little concerned I was contemplating it.
Keeping home aesthetics and size in mind and if I would only want one grinder I’d probably get an EG-1 or Monolith flat Max. Currently have two grinders though, one with hopper (83mm burr) and one single dose for my decaf/specialty drinks. Which I would be unlikely to drop as single dosing I won’t do for groups or in the morning, a large burr gbw grinder would be my choice.
For the espresso machine, a Sanremo you or LM GS3 would offer everything I would want, but honestly a simple flat profile machine with good pid and dual boiler like a LM Mini R or a Micra is good enough for me already. Micra does come with some short comings, the reduced height is a little annoying at times. Mini r was too big for my counter though.
Impossible_Cow_9178
