Mazzer - Philos

I have a DF64ii, a Philos, a Gevi, and an Ode 2 for electric grinders. I've brought the DF64ii into work. At home, for pourovers, I almost always use the ZP6 hand grinder.

It depends on how you like your coffee. For traditional espresso or milk drinks, I still use my Kinu M47 Simplicity to grind my slightly darker beans even though I have a Mazzer Philos on my counter. Flat burrs give you a different taste experience. The Kinu may rival the quality that electric burr grinders that over 3x it's price offer but it's a different story when you compare it to flat burr grinders. I'm sure that more manual flat burr grinders will start appearing but for now, the Pietro seems like a really good bang for your buck if you can live with it's workflow.

I wdt as well but those poop looking clumps turned me off. But yeah, the retention has gotten so much worse lately that I'll try removing the declumper. I can't wait for Mazzer Philos to be released in US and I can say goodbye to all these problems!

I like the Vario+ a lot, but recently traded mine up for a Mazzer Philos. My biggest gripe with the Vario is the workflow: the grind size adjustment is weird (there’s a coarse and fine adjustment that you can adjust independently), and the levers can lose their settings easily. Baratza sell shims to prevent the levers from moving easily, but that feels like a design defect. The grounds catch bin is enormous (relatively speaking) and a little awkward compared to a catch cup for transferring to a brewing funnel.  Retention was an issue for mine, too. I frequently had 0.3 to 0.5 g retention on an 18–20 g dose. That was perhaps my biggest annoyance. There are tricks you can find online (like inverting the flap on the exit chute, but again, those feel like hacky workarounds for design defects.  That said, when it performs well, the grinder is capable of making great coffee. The steel burrs in particular make for really yummy pour overs. 

Thanks! It’s a great grinder and it works for my workflow, but I get that it’s not for everyone, especially those who want a hopper and weight-/time-based grinding. Have you looked at the Mahlkoenig X54? That might be up your alley. [https://www.mahlkoenig.us/products/x54-allround-home-grinder](https://www.mahlkoenig.us/products/x54-allround-home-grinder)

I’ve had a Baratza Virtuoso+, a Baratza Vario+, and now a Mazzer Philos, and I’d rank them in Bottom, Mid, and Top Tiers, respectively. 

First of all, flat burrs won't just cure fines. I have a Pietro and even with the huge sweet spot it has there have been beans where I have just decided not to do v60 but AP because with the v60 it would music stall too much no matter on how little agitation I caused. Just 1 bean out of a lot more, but just something to consider. Next thing to consider is that both stock burrsets just won't be great for clarity in pour over. Any test for the two grinders you mentioned mentions these drawbacks. But at least the df64 you can order with ssp mp pre installed, which tbh sounds like what you want. From what I heard about them and considering you have a lever machine you should be able to pull great shots and they will give you the highest clarity pour over. These will also be the ones that differ most from your current grinders so IMHO the ones that give you the biggest gain over your existing grinders. Obviously the 64 has the higher amount of after market burrs and what I have seen from tests makes it easier to swap them out. It is overall at this point a very mature product that does come with some caveats which should be attributed to the price point though. From what you describe - a high clarity end game grinder with a lot of features - you could consider going up to the 1000 range and getting a zerno z1 or a mazzer philos. Both have a good auger feeding/pre breaking mechanism and come with good stock burrs. Given what we know so far about variable speed it mostly affects feed rate and doesn't have much of an influence on grinders with good augers. So I think these will give you a very good build quality, noise level and feature set and be basically the "entry level endgame" grinders you can get(bigger burrs can probs be more endgame but the only ones that have bigger ones at a lower/comparable price point come with other caveats)

This list seems somehow outdated, and is missing some important items, that are popular and offering a great value. Hand grinders: **Kingrinder K6, K2, K0, Timemore C3S, C2S** Electric: **Zerno Z1**, soon also **Z2** (80mm, now in a prototype stage), **Mazzer Philos, DF64V, Sculptor 078s,064, and Lagom 01** (although grinders with burrs larger than 83 mm is a rather niche ultra-high-end, so not sure really, if EK43, P100 and L01 make sense to be included in such a list) Also: In this list, the **Fellow Ode2** is placed in "budget-friendly", while **Fellow Opus** in "mid-range/prosumer"?? :) Ode costs almost twice as Opus, and while Ode is rather popular for manual brews, Opus is not that popular neither for brew, nor for espresso, although technically "it can do both". (edit to add) Also missing, the **DF54** low-cost electric grinder.

For a shop, and for mostly a pour-over use, you may want to consider the Mazzer Philos grinder with the I200D burrs as a low-cost option (compared to commercial grinders - its around 1000 EUR / 1200 USD). It is sturdy, designed and approved by Mazzer also for "a light commercial use", and can handle a modern espresso too. I doubt that 078 and particularly Ode2 would handle an increased traffic in the shop well. Also, Philos is a fast grinder, which speeds-up the preparation time - quite useful when in rush.

For light roasts , at that price personally I’d consider the Philos with i200d burrs. That said , light roasts espresso is not for everyone and a new grinder may not fix your dislike of them. You may still find them too sour or acidic. In fact a flat burr grinder may emphasize the acidity even more.

Philos if you want to single dose, you can change burrs if you want. Or Fioranzato All ground (or All ground sense but more expensive) if you don't change often coffee, don't care about single dosing, and you don't want to spend all of your budget. I wouldn't buy any of those Turin or whatever, I get the hype, but you can buy something build better all around. That you can use for espresso and others technique. And most important, with warranty and good customer service in your area. Light roast espresso, is hard to do and not for everyone, as another said. And yes, is a drastic difference. Like day and night.

I second the Philos. Don't think it has a peer at that price point, and all by all accounts the i200's are phenomenal with lighter roasts. And yes, you'll notice a pretty significant difference from your Sette. Also would be sure you're very comfortable with a DF in general if you go that route. Yes, large burrs sound great and the taste is definitely there, but there are hundreds of posts on here from DF owners complaining about build quality, grind consistency, and forget it if you ever need support.

A Mazzer Philos works well for this (200 model burrs), particularly when returning to fine after coarse and holding the pull time. But it is pricey.

Mazzer built like tanks easy to find used and cheap!

If size of grinder is not an issue, get a Mazzer. Even a used model for cheap would be worth it. Mine is 19 years old and still no issues. I think I could hit a thief with it and it would still work.