Mazzer - Philos

Mazzer Philos if your budget allows

Generally id suggest a high quality hand grinder for pour over (as youre already doing) but youre tired of that and wanting to electrify...seems like an 078 or philos would be the middle of the road option (between ode2 and zerno)...but if you really want to spend the money on something cool, a z1 is pretty cool. I own one and love it but i ONLY use it for espresso. I would not own it otherwise, as cool as it is. Id say grab a 078 on sale ($640ish) and spend the rest on nice coffee.

Mazzer Philos. Bought it second hand with two sets of burrs for $1300 CAD.

That's right! That grinder is truly amazing.

I haven't tried the I200D burrs yet. I got the machine with the 189 burr set installed, and haven't changed them since. I'm driking medium roasts most of the time, and the 189 have been really good so far, but I'm tempted to switch to the 200 set over the weekend to give them a try.

This. Absolutely fantastic grinder. And you’re getting a Mazzer product. My Philos came with a little handwritten note by the person that made it in Italy. I found that a really cool little touch.

Yeah. Listen to this guy. If the Philos is a little out of your budget, I’d recommend waiting a little and saving up until you can get it. I’m a very frugal person myself, but this is one case where buy once cry once is absolutely the right move.

Regular hopper (Ceado) and Philos for decaf and messing around with single doses

For a different conical, gbw: Etzingeg Etzmax LM Built like a brick to last a lifetime, but not sure how good for dark roast: Philos with 189d burrs, it bests Ceado in grind quality with the 200d for medium roasts

Mazzer Philos i200d at home, Ceado E37S at the office. Both spectacular, just very different use cases.

Have owned all the grinders on your list, at one point or another. Agree that Duo might be your best bet. Ability to play with other 83mm burrs is a good hedge against future curiosity. Recommend getting second (filter) burr option, because having the extra carrier for fast(ish) swaps is nice. Cannot recommend the Eurekas. Good build, very pretty, but burrs are proprietary and the grind chamber/chute design is antediluvian. Fine for hopper base on-demand grinding, but crap for single dosing. Even with the mods (tilted base, bellows), retention is terrible. Eureka’s attempts at single-dosing focused grinders are not honest efforts. Just a new model name and superficial accessories. And their new dial is just…stupid. Still not enough ratio to overcome the thread lash in their adjustment screw. The rev counter is nice enough, but a big dial like [this](https://www.amazon.com/ARO-EspressoTM-Eureka-Mignon-Adjustments/dp/B0CLCB8VQ6/ref=asc_df_B0CLCB8VQ6) is much more effective (and not stupid looking, imho) Libra portafilter contact sensor was unreliable. I heard they fixed it, but I had given up already and moved on. When it worked, it was…ok. Weight accuracy wasn’t bad, but irrelevant because it was a hot mess of sprayed grounds. RDT absolutely necessary in my environment (20-50%RH over the year), but the extra moisture caused caking/clogging in the chute. From a taste perspective…it’s ok. Blendy, decent body, not a lot of clarity. Little unkempt and harsh. Good in milk drinks. Niches — good workflow, probably among the best, even compared against titan grinders at 5x the price. Personally, not a fan of Mazzer burrs. Harsh and bitter finish. The Zero doesn’t have any options for their 63mm conical, so you’re kinda stuck. The stock Duo espresso burr was, to me, a cleaner version of Zero profile. Other options: Mazzer Philos. The grinder itself is a bit pricey, and rumor has it that the i200D and 189D burrs are big improvements over Mazzer traditional flavor profile — but it’s a good platform for 64mm burr space, where you are spoilt for choice and the burrs are cheaper than 83mm. Hope that helps

Ha. Fellow Vivace enthusiast. Was the bean that started it all for me. Here we go: - Niche has great workflow but lamentable for pour over and lighter roasts. Don’t like the Mazzer conical, personally, for much of anything. Bitter, ashy finish and grainy texture. Vivace used to run Niches in shop and I always felt I could do better with a rolling pin and mortar and pestle at home. - Timemore 064s — good build, stock burrs are not bad for espresso and filter. I just spend a coupla months pulling Vivace+Lusso shots with it, alongside H&S ultralight pourovers. Been great. There’s also a plethora of options in 64mm space, sounds like Cast LS v3 might be for you and the wife. Burr swaps not the most straightforward on the 064s, but doable for the slightly mechanically inclined. - 078s is good but I am not a fan of proprietary burr sizes; not a lot of choices yet in 78mm. - DFs are a crap shoot in quality. - Philos - huge, well built. You can replace the burrs, but auger and fixed rpm are tuned for the mazzer i200 and i189 burrs. Which are fine if you like them. - Z1 next best choice in 64mm, but pricey and unobtainium. - Eurekas - avoid like the plague. Antediluvian burr chamber design. High retention. Stupid stupid stupid stupid burr adjustment mechanism, yes even the new one. Dialing in is frustrating, never mind switching between filter and espresso settings. Burrs are proprietary and are ok if you like dark chocolate + nuts. Never mind filter coffee, yikes. Re: used market - usual places. /r/coffeeswap. Home-Barista. FB marketplace. EAF Discord, but you gotta put in frequent flier miles. DM me, I can help you out. Re: Vectis - had a janky early build that needed lots of fixes and some significant modding. - But eventually, made the best coffee for me day to day. Easily preferred it to the LMLM, and even the Slayer, sometimes. Have fun

Best "around" $1000 - Mazzer Philos IMO

I have exactly what you describe with the Philos and 078 and it works really well. I think the Philos could easily do both but I would potentially have to purge a bit of beans when switching between pour over and espresso. The 078 makes great coffee, but isn't as impressive a piece of kit as the Philos. It sounds whiny and the popcorn effect is real. Not a huge deal but worth mentioning i think.

This list seems somehow outdated, and is missing some important items, that are popular and offering a great value. Hand grinders: **Kingrinder K6, K2, K0, Timemore C3S, C2S** Electric: **Zerno Z1**, soon also **Z2** (80mm, now in a prototype stage), **Mazzer Philos, DF64V, Sculptor 078s,064, and Lagom 01** (although grinders with burrs larger than 83 mm is a rather niche ultra-high-end, so not sure really, if EK43, P100 and L01 make sense to be included in such a list) Also: In this list, the **Fellow Ode2** is placed in "budget-friendly", while **Fellow Opus** in "mid-range/prosumer"?? :) Ode costs almost twice as Opus, and while Ode is rather popular for manual brews, Opus is not that popular neither for brew, nor for espresso, although technically "it can do both". (edit to add) Also missing, the **DF54** low-cost electric grinder.