Multiple Brands (Turin, MiiCoffee, DF etc) - DF54

It's NOT needed. I RDT most, but not all of the time, and use the bellows. I have NEVER had my DF54 clog. It does get progressively more static-y, especially if you don't RDT. 10 seconds with the brush and its fixed. There's not really very much stuck in there, just enough to mess up the ionizer.

I honestly can't figure out what people are doing. The grinder is super simple.

What I was saying above though is that the build is so simple, I don't see what there is to really go wrong with QC. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the motor is spinning backwards. I'm not sure that's possible with this machine.

I've been making espresso for about 10 years now. My DF54 is my second grinder. I have 3 machines: the refurbished Classic I bought 10 years ago is my daily driver (now with dual PID), a cheap 2nd hand Breville Cafe Roma with a $5 dimmer at my work apartment, and a KitchenAid Proline project machine on my bench. I haven't spent more than $1000 USD over those 10 years. It's been a pretty affordable hobby for me. Not so much of a racket. 🙂

I have the DF 54 and it doesn't take that long and it isn't that high pitched/loud.

For 18g I get about 20 seconds. Maybe he's grinding finer since I'm using a bambino. Also, you're right, I stopped paying attention to the noise until now, wow! That said, it's a tank of a grinder. https://streamable.com/ovm691

Maybe now that James Hoffmann has done a proper and thorough review of grinders in this price bracket that'll put an end to all the silliness that comes up every time anyone mentions the df54 over here? Most here knew that already, but as an espresso grinder it clearly punches way above its weight.

How even though this is a ridiculously cheap flat burr grinder and the clogging issues seem to be mostly caused by user error and/or lack of maintenance/cleaning, there's always some degree of vitriol along the lines of "how can such an expensive coffee grinder be such a piece of shit?? chinese manufacturing sucks" in the comments. Specially coming from that one dude who feels personally summoned every single time anyone mentions the df54 in this sub. I'm surprised he hasn't shown up here yet.

Buy a DF54.

If you don't mind manually grinding, **Kingrinder K6** or **Timemore C3**, both can grind for pourover/filter and espresso fine. They're the best value for money, considering you won't need to replace them at all in the next 5 years as opposed to grinders in the ₱1k range you would probably need to replace in the next 3 months. If you want auto, DF54 or DF64. If you can afford it then go straight to DF64 because its stock burrs work better for both pourover+esp compared to DF54 which you may have to replace with aftermarket burrs to work with pourover. Also you need to slow feed. Overall I recommend Kingrinder K6, best value more than Timemore because you can adjust the setting outside—amazing quality of life feature.

I got the SK40 stepless conical when first released and a DF54 flat burr more recently. I think for $200ish, they're both better built and better performing than the other electrics at that price.

I nearly bought this today but decided on the Df54 instead. You can buy a bellows for the opus to blow the retained grinds out and through but that's just eating away at the savings today. I paid a little bit more for what seems like a better product. Granted, it doesn't look as nice but that's subjective.

DF54 or the Sk40 / Mii coffee 40. Anything else cheap isn't worth considering and I really mean it. These ones are just much better than the alternatives.

DF54 or the Sk40/Mii coffee 40 are absolutely the best value options. I wouldn't consider anything else at that price point or less.

Get an electric grinder for espresso 100 % DF54 or Df64 are absolutely fantastic for the money

I got one for my sister recently and had a play with it. It's honestly so nice compared to my original df64 v1 and a lot smaller. It feels very solid and well designed and the coffee it makes is great. It has the same traditional / conical style flavour profile as the df64's flat burrs. They'll be good for any beans or brew method or roast level. For most people who just want good coffee this could well be the last grinder you ever need for a long time! Crazy value at £230

DF54. People will always disagree with me but I strongly recommend against getting a hand grinder for espresso. Learning to dial in espresso can be an extremely tedious, difficult, and frustrating task. Just read through this sub about all the troubles people have had - myself included. It can absolutely be a fun challenge and everyone gets to where they want eventually but having to hand grind every single shot just adds to the hassle. The DF54 is absolutely amazing for the price ,I've used one myself. I've also got an 1zpresso hand grinder which can make great espresso but I use my electric one 99% of the time at home

Get a DF54 or SK40. With those on the market, nothing cheaper is worth it . I also really don't recommend hand grinding for espresso, it can be extremely tedious and isn't what anyone needs when starting off.

Df54! Much better than the encore

Df54 is $220 on Amazon and $160 on aliexpress. Makes fantastic espresso AND fantastic pour over. I love mine.

I really like my Df54

Exciting - can't wait. Hopefully my DF54 doesn't get trashed because I have become very fond of it

The DF54 single dose electric or the Kingrinder K6 manual. But like most, I'm recommending from personal experience - many good options listed here I haven't used Enjoy college! Pax

To start, the DF54 is an excellent grinder. It was easy to dial in and the results were as good or better than with my KINGrinder K6 or the Baratza Encore ESP. Because this was my first serious electric grinder, I had some issues and questions in the beginning but resolved most of them by looking at some DF64 videos that applied to the DF54. Barret from Espresso Outlet also clarified some items. If you don't think the DF54 is a serious grinder, talk to my wife about the bill Here are some of the things I learned. **Support** For faster response, email is preferred. I prefer telephone. It took awhile but I did connect with Barrett and he patiently went through my questions. **Clogging** My DF54 worked fine for a week or so but started cloggling when grinding medium dark roasts - three times in a row after cleaning twice. After a thorough cleaning following a YT for the DF64, I tried hot starting and that seemed to solve the problem. One other owner on Reddit had the same problem but no others reported issues - with even very dark roasts. Barrett said he had not seen the issue at all on the DF54 *EDIT* I've been slow feeding and hot starting (turning on grinder before adding beans) for a month with no clogging. Recently, I accidentally dumped in 18 grams without slow feeding and it choked again. **Range** Espresso range is about 4 to 7 on the dial for my unit. Much more narrow than I expected. Dialing in 35 second shot with light roast beans is about 5 or 6 on the dial. Barrett said that is about right on the DF54. YMMV. *EDIT* On further use, with different beans, the espresso range on my unit is 4 to 12. The pourover range is broader, about 55 to 70. **Should you check alignment?** Some YT influencers say check alignment with new grinders.Others say don't bother unless you have a problem. Barrett says don't bother. They check most of the units. Also, smaller burrs like the 54mm aren't likely to have problems as larger burrs like 83mm. Finally, Barrett says smaller burrs are much harder to align and that even if they're 15% or so off, will not affect the performance noticably. If you are thinking about aligning your DF54, I recommend contacting your seller first for guidance. **Seasoning the burrs worth the time and coffee?** Barrett says no, and you could burn out the motor running it for twenty minutes or more at a time. Spromethius says in a YT on the topic that seasoning makes no difference in taste after many comparisons with different grinders. If you get a any new grinder, then go with manufacturers recommendations. *Edited to delete misinformation I repeated that seasoning can affect the life of the burrs. Mea Culpa. My bad.* **How do you avoid damaging the anti-clog device and the ionizer?** Be careful. See the YouTube uploaded today. [Turin Ion Cleaning -DF Grinder Maintenance](https://youtu.be/GEk3HKKidYk?si=rf5l1G_puXUZtK9v) **Cleaning** Barrett says ownets actually over clean. Pump the bellows and clear the chute after each use. Clean the chute with a screw driver and/or brush once a week. Remove the burr assembly and thoroughly clean once or twice a year. **Tips** You might/probably know of them but I came up with these solutions while tuning up the DF54. *Toothbrush* Use a disposable electric toothbrush to remove fine coffee powder or oil from threads when cleaning. I tried micro fiber rags with no luck getting to the residual oils or powder but the toothbrush worked in 30 seconds. Manual brush will probably work almost as well. *Dialing In* If you have an old grinder like a KINGrinder K6 or Baratza that has been dialed in for different brewing methods like pourover, AeroPress , etc, grind 5 or 6 beans in that grinder as your benchmark for that brewer. Then start doing the same in the DF54, adjusting until you get an approximate visual and texture match. That will get you a starting point for your new grinder. * **ALWAYS RUN GRINDER WHEN CHANGING GRIND SIZE. - ESPECIALLY COURSE TO FINER. Otherwise, you can JAM or damage the grinder. Applies to most consumer grade grinders.*** *Chirping when changing grind setting.* That sounds is almost certainly not the burrs touching. Rather it is a bean or bean fragments left between the burrs. Videos [Doesn't Grind Fine Enough](https://youtu.be/hzp5cI7wOWc?si=B0aTujcbmNGeSDkT) [Cleaning DF64 and Clearing Jams](https://youtu.be/hzp5cI7wOWc?si=B0aTujcbmNGeSDkT) Yesterday, Barrett says they will be producing some DF54 centric YouTube videos soon. The first dropped today on the ionizer link above. I will edit/monitor this post to keep current for a while. EDIT: *DF54 vs Baratza ESP - Coffee Chronicler* https://youtu.be/eb_5H8uydQs?si=HJnm-nT-eTNFW05r Thanks Pax

The DF54 produces very tasty shots and very good pourovers. I would say better than the K6 but Í haven't done blind cupping. Ít is also easier to dial in new coffee, I think I don't have the experience with the K6 and espresso to judge fairly. Also, I'm using different beans, so no good baseline. I remember getting good shots with the K6 but manual grinding that fine was a real chore and I very quickly went electric. When I have the time I may try comparative cupping and report back. But I'm no connoisseur. I taste sweet sour bitter fruity and bad/meh/good/OMG coffee. Pax

I don't have the experience base to answer fully. While waiting to be loaded the DF54 runs at a quiet hum. When grinding, it is noticably quieter than my Encore ESP.. Practically speaking I'll use the DF54 early morning without too much concern of waking the wife. I wouldn't use the ESP if someone was sleeping. Bottom line, DF54 noise isn't an issue at all for me. Pax

Tough choice. Off hand, if you travel or camp the K6 If you only pull a coupler of espresso shots a day, then the K6. You should be in reasonable shape and realized that grinding espresso requires a lot of torque, therefore effort. The DF54 does both espresso and filter coffee well The quality of filter coffee is often overlooked and underappreciated on this grinder It is fast and the best brand for the buck grinder under $400. But it isn't portable and takes some counter space. The DF54 is also $130 more - more than twice the K6 If you're new to specialty coffee, perhaps get the K6 first, and the DF54 later. You have to decide for you but I will say you can't make a mistake with either I'm a big fan of both. I went from the C2 to the K6 and have championed this grinder ever since. Hope this helps. Pax

As many have mentioned, I'd go hand grinder. I've been using a 1Zpresso JX Pro and it works really well, but you got to be willing to churn for a couple of minutes. Not the end of the world, but some people are put off by it. If going electric I'd skip Fellow and ESP and look at DF54 preorder or the SK40, they look a LOT more grinder for the money.

Another JX Pro user here, of about 4 years. Great, reliable and consistent grinder. Only started being bothered by hand grinding now that my partner has gone decaf during pregnancy. Because the DF54 is about to hit the market at about the same price/cheaper than some premium hand grinders I get why people would skip hand churning these days and go straight to a DF54, the practicality ultimately is there and I’d be surprised if any difference in taste of the coffee would be enough to make one the clear choice. About to pull the trigger on one myself!

Baratza Encore ESP. $200. Nothing cheaper than this will make decent espresso, unless you hand grind. Don't recommend hand grinding. Same price range Turin DF 54. Save up for the usable grinder or you will buy it twice.

I didnt end up buying one for myself, but I got my mom a df54 for christmas and I gotta say its pretty nice. I stayed at my parents house for a few days over christmas and it was a nice little grinder.

I have the SD40 (the stepped version of the Itop40s), and I think it produces consistently delicious espresso. You won't go wrong with either the DF54 or the Itop40s. You'll achieve the same level of accuracy just by buying a scale and weighing your beans before you grind. Grinders with built-in scales are going to be much more expensive

then you just gotta wait. patience is a virtue, and that's especially true for internet forum hobbies lol.    personally unless you're mentally open to the idea of upgrading to aftermarket burrs (which imho, is where 75% of the grinder's value lies) then I'd get the df54 over the df64. You'll get like 90% of the same flavor profile in the df54 for half the price. having access to the minimum tier of SSP burrs is the big draw for having a 64mm grinder that ships with "generic" burrs

not sure who's downvoting me lol but unfortunately SSP does not make 54mm burrs yet, and when you get into the enthusiast burrs, you notice burr size a lot more as well - bigger burrs generally give more expanded flavor since there's more surface area for the burrs to do their thing, whatever that thing is. hard to explain but yea, burr geometry and size matters especially for medium to light roasts.  there are some aftermarket 54mm burrs but I personally dont know too much about them. As for the SSP HU burrs, all I know about them is that they're similar to the flavor profile of the dlc burrs, but just 'better' from what I hear. I personally enjoy the SSP unimodal burrs a lot, but I'm split between a few choices for future upgrades. I'm definitely going to 83mm or even the upcoming df98, but I think I want MP burrs on my big grinder and lab sweets on my 64mm grinder. SSP burrs change the flavor of coffee so much, you dont realize how silly the grinder debate seems when most of the discussion should be on burrs.  i definitely recommend starting on dlc burrs though, they meet right in the middle between clarity and chocolatey boldness and they're more forgiving to dial in, so you can decide where to go in terms of flavor from that point. I wanted to see what true clarity tasted like so I went with MP burrs, which are very different tasting from any other espresso I've ever had

I got this a week ago and really enjoying it. Very good quality for the price.

Imo if you truly care about taste get df54 or a k6 hand grinder, any less would just be e waste in a yr. If you want just better coffee, get a used encore, or some other listed here, doesn't really matter

Df54 for electric. I would also suggest looking at a premium hand grinder. I have a df64, but also love and frequently use my 1zpresso hand grinder. The effort required (for pourover) is barely noticeable, and quite enjoyable

I have the df54 and use it constantly for the aeropress, delicious cups every time

I’d spend a bit more and get the df54. The baratza esp isn’t appreciably better than the barista pro’s built in grinder. At least not enough to make it worth the upgrade.

Just echoing part of this, I've seen many home baristas here say that they ultimately tired of making drinks for themself and for a partner--one person and drink, fine, but going beyond that . . . . That being said, and pardon me for going there, but there is something nicely almost ritualistic about hand-grinding. Assuming that it doesn't go too far: my 2.5-3 minute grind with my name-brand but sub-standard original hand-grinder was pushing it, lol. A J-Ultra, on the other hand, would be a different experience, certainly with darker roasts. OP, a word about the Encore ESP: it actually is a sweet unit, at its US$199 price. (Note that it sometimes, albeit rarely, has gone on discount, at 20% off. Nov./Black Friday season is a target--I saw it on sale once or twice then last year, once during a Sur La Table friends-and-family sale.) I've been using the grinder for 17+ months now, with fine results; some people will report some retention, which I rarely have--perhaps it helps that I give the top of the machine a couple of "'atta boy" taps and a bellows-ing as my grind is finishing. I would like if it had more grind steps (I'm the guy who always would like more pockets)--but it is what it is, at its price-point, and certainly is workable. I single dose with it and, to save time and a step, grind straight into my portafilter (with a dosing funnel on top) held directly under the grounds chute--easy and no mess. It's a compact unit (I added Baratza's single dose hopper to it, to make it even more so--a nice deal from Baratza, at US$24), and I like its internal cavity approach--it helps keep things tidy. Perhaps most importantly, I enjoy the perhaps stereotypical conical burr flavor profile it delivers for a "traditional" dark and medium roast--a nice, velvety feel that pairs well with chocolate tones. Of course, since the time that the Encore ESP came out, the DF54 has come out (Mar.-Apr. 2024) and received positive review, including from consumers. US$229; you might want to check the grinder out--there are many posts here on it. Some people have reported some retention/static, others reporting that this easily can be handled with some simple, routine cleaning. As I've seen it discussed here, the DF54 delivers a somewhat stereotypical flat burr flavor profile, with less body than a conical burr grinder but more clarity.

I've been using a Baratza Encore ESP (US$199) for 17+ months now, with fine results (no pun intended, lol). Some people will report some retention, which I rarely have--perhaps it helps that I give the top of the machine a couple of "'atta boy" taps and a bellows-ing as my grind is finishing. I would like if it had more grind steps (I'm the guy who always would like more pockets)--but it is what it is, at its price-point, and certainly is workable. I single dose with it and, to save time and a step, grind straight into my portafilter (with a dosing funnel on top) held directly under the grounds chute--easy and no mess. An earlier pro reviewer (Kyle Rowsell) video on the Baratza Encore ESP and the Fellow Opus, plus other, electric grinders, and in comparison, that may be helpful and informative: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_iSvPdkWfQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_iSvPdkWfQ). Since the time that the Encore ESP came out, the DF54 has come out (Mar.-Apr. 2024) and received positive review, including from consumers. US$229; recommended that you check the grinder out--there are many posts here on it. Some people have reported some retention/static, others reporting that this easily can be handled with some simple, routine cleaning. Note that the Encore ESP is a conical burr grinder, the DF54 a flat burr; from what I've read here and my own experience with the Encore ESP, they each seem to follow somewhat along the "general" flavor profile for such grinders. This may affect your consideration, depending on the type of espresso towards which you gravitate (e.g. light roasts, dark roasts). I don't know if you've considered a hand-grinder as well, but some nice options there, too. The KinGrinder K6 often has been recommended here, based on its value/features/price ratio (typically just under US$100 in the U.S.). A recent, helpful comparison and discussion here of KinGrinder brand manual grinder models, from \~US$30-$100: [https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1ercmgn/update\_on\_experience\_with\_kingrinder\_k2\_p1\_and\_p2/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1ercmgn/update_on_experience_with_kingrinder_k2_p1_and_p2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). There's also the standard-setting 1Zpresso J-Ultra hand-grinder (at double the KinGrinder K6's price). [https://coffeegeek.com/reviews/firstlooks/1zpresso-j-ultra-manual-grinder-first-look/](https://coffeegeek.com/reviews/firstlooks/1zpresso-j-ultra-manual-grinder-first-look/)

I've seen some of those comments, but it's been looking to me like a regular (e.g. weekly), quick cleaning via a swipe of the grounds chute with a pipe cleaner may be taking care of things.

Thanks for the info. and quantification (maybe a Gen2 model will get it down to a 1-second chute cleaning). ;)

MiiCoffee, U.S. distributor, now includes that instruction and a brush to do the deed. :)

To be fair, I think that part of the issue is that people don't originally consider having to brush out the inside of the grounds chute after each grind or every few days, or once every week or 2 (even though we're talking only a few seconds for the job). MiiCoffee now includes that instruction, as well as a brush. Ideally/really, that shouldn't be needed, and I've wondered if the manf.'s simply putting a slightly larger grounds chute on the machine would eliminate the issue--v.2?

But with all due respect, there have been so many posts here of clogs. And apparently, this has been at such a level that MiiCoffee has responded/reacted on it.

I keep on wondering if it's a QC thing. Some people, like you, have no issue. And then other people have these clogs that they need to use a metal pick on (someone posted about that situation just yesterday or the day before, and he said that he brushes out the grounds chute every few days). Odd.

Just to add: I had asked, here, about the flavor profile aspect of the DF54 when it first came out, trying to get a feel for whether the grinder can produce a somewhat typical conical burr flavor profile with dark roast beans. Little info. as to that. Interestingly, a new DF54 owner told me that in some blind taste-testing with friends, some of his friends actually preferred the Encore ESP, for its "traditional" dark-roast creaminess. My conclusion seems to be that the generalization as to conical and flat burrs and the flavor profiles they produce may bear some truth in regard to the DF54 (subject, of course, to the particulars of a specific grinder--each grinder stands on its own, in the end, with its own characteristics). I should also note that the new DF54 owner mentioned here liked his grinder and recommended it.

If you haven't yet done so, I'd also consider the DF54. Try a search here the past 6 weeks--numerous posts and comments. I'm not sure about the big thing with a timer. With my Baratza Encore ESP, I hold my portafilter, with a dosing funnel on top, directly under the grinder's grounds chute and 20 seconds later I'm done--no mess, no fuss (and I get +/- no retention besides, with a few "love taps" at the end of the grind) .

OP: An earlier (2023) pro reviewer (Kyle Rowsell) video on the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP, plus other, electric grinders, and in comparison, that may be helpful and informative, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B\_iSvPdkWfQ. Recommended, if going there, that you go into a purchase of the Opus fully knowing its pro's and con's. I've had the Baratza Encore ESP (make sure that it is the ESP version, not the earlier simply Encore version) for over 19 months now, and its done its job. This year's "poster child" as a good entry-level grinder, the DF54 (US$229). \*Many\* posts here, and elsewhere, to read up on it. E.g.: The Real Sprometheus -- DF54 vs. DF64 | How Much Difference Can 10 Millimeters Make?, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw\_G6tQYJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw_G6tQYJc). And a most recent take on entry-level grinders, by espresso guru James Hoffmann, and considering each of these grinders: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1gu8612/the\_best\_espresso\_grinder\_under\_250\_james\_hoffmann/.

The DF54 indeed has been available on Amazon, thru MiiCoffee as seller (stock permitting)--indeed, a potentially beneficial way to purchase the grinder, with Amazon customer service protection and the possibility of a free-return-shipping return/return privilege rights. If I had to guess, at its already low price-point, a sales discount on the grinder (e.g. for Black Friday, etc.) seems less likely. The Baratza Encore ESP has had very occasional discount pricing--not at all frequent. Nov./Black Friday season is a good possibility, including with store friends-and-family events (e.g. last year, at Sur La Table). The discount typically has been 20% off. Important to consider, a grinder's flavor profile and how that fits your preference. I had asked, here, about the flavor profile aspect of the DF54 when it first came out, trying to get a feel for whether the grinder can produce a somewhat typical conical burr flavor profile with dark roast beans. Little info. as to that. Interestingly, though, a new DF54 owner told me that in some blind taste-testing with friends, some of his friends actually preferred the Encore ESP, for its "traditional" dark-roast creaminess. My conclusion seems to be that the generalization as to conical and flat burrs and the flavor profiles they produce may bear some truth in regard to the DF54 (subject, of course, to the particulars of a specific grinder--each grinder stands on its own, in the end, with its own characteristics). I should also note that the new DF54 owner mentioned here liked the grinder and recommended it.

From your description, the DF54 might be ideal for you. (As a gross generalization, from what I've read here, the DF54 does well for for lighter roasts in addition to generally--think, generally, flat burr grinders--while the Encore ESP has a more "traditional" conical burr grinder flavor profile--think, esp., darker roasts with a creamy chocolatiness.) If I were you, I'd think about the DF54 via Amazon as being offered by MiiCoffee as the seller. (And I probably wouldn't wait--it perhaps is unlikely, with its current price-point, that the price will be discounted--and the grinder goes in and out of stock.) The advantage of purchasing via Amazon, where MiiCoffee is the seller but Amazon the processor/shipper: at least for me, the grinder comes with Amazon's 30-day, no-questions-asked return privilege, and any return-shipping can be free. And you also have Amazon's customer service/support should there be any issue, in addition to that from MiiCoffee. I should add: I've been satisfied with my Encore ESP, for 18 months, now. But I purchased when the Encore ESP was newly-out--the DF54 came out a year later. Candidly, if I were purchasing today, I don't know which way I would go--but that indecision in part is driven by the fact that at least right now, I'm a dark-roast guy, a strong-point for the Encore ESP.

2 final thoughts: Amazon's upcoming Prime Days are Oct. 8-9--you could wait until then to see if there is any discounting on the DF54, at Amazon or otherwise. (Unlikely, if I had to guess, but you never know.) Also, you seem to have done your research and so, I assume, are aware that some users have had an issue with some retention/static with the DF54--other users noting that they were able to handle this easily through a quick, routine cleaning of the grinder, simply a few seconds every week or 2 with a pipe cleaner up the grounds chute. But I thought to mention this to you, in case you hadn't seen it. And a further "also": it seems to be a bit of a crap-shoot if the DF54 is pre-calibrated so that the burrs, when set at their closest, show as a zero on the grind scale marker. It makes no difference for grinding, but some people just feel better having a zero starting point. You can calibrate the grinder yourself or, even easier, can purchase on etsy an inexpensive scale marker overlay that you simply place on top of the original scale marker (clever etsy developer!). [https://www.etsy.com/listing/1755075631/df54-grinder-dial-indicator-turin-df54?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=df54&ref=sr\_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content\_source=21734db79d5f0531ea2b3a17ccab58bcaf16116c%253A1755075631&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1755075631/df54-grinder-dial-indicator-turin-df54?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=df54&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content_source=21734db79d5f0531ea2b3a17ccab58bcaf16116c%253A1755075631&organic_search_click=1) Hope this helps--

I ended up getting the DF54 and I am super satisfied!

Interesting on your grind setting for espresso. Mine is around the 15 mark. I started at 10 and choked my bambino. Seems there’s some variability between units?

Great post and info! Saving this for later. My DF54 has been great so far with no problems.

Mine have been between 12-17 depending on the beans.

It is a very chirpy grinder. The ionizer is very hit and miss for static control, I found using an artists paint brush up the chute after use on espresso settings works ok, it is a pain in the ass though so sometimes I just live with the static ir use RDT, but either way static control is a faff in workflow

The Encore is a good grinder at its price point, but the K6 may even be better. I enjoyed grinding by hand for a long time and still do when traveling, but the grind quality of my Philos is just too good ;) My advice is to spend once as much as you can, not to go easy now and upgrade soonish. E.g. when going electric maybe go for the DF54 or (second hand) DF64g2, if you can afford it. When going for hand operated and you enjoy light roast, the 1zpresso ZP6 can’t be beaten (for med-dark K6 is great, especially for its price).

I have a few, and all are good for different things. I have a DF54 and an Etzinger etz-i for my at-home needs, an Aergrind for taking the AeroPress anywhere, and an old Ascaso i-1 as a spare in case the DF54 craps out. I like the choice of conical and flat burrs for my coffees, but I find the DF54 works better for espresso, and the etz-i is my pourover and AeroPress grinder, because it starts to choke up with espresso-fine coffee. If you're not going for espresso, I'd really suggest going hand grinder for your first, because you'll get a lot more for your money. There isn't much out there on it, but the etz-i is well worth a look. It's a well-known burr set, I seem to recall Baratza use it in the Encore, and it's a doddle to clean and adjust.

Also have been using DF54. First a couple of weeks, it clogged twice. But it’s been fine since I started doing 2 second chute cleaning after each grind. I am waiting for 30 seconds of espresso anyway. 

Same here. Cleaning out a clog is a hassle, but doing a quick pipe each time prevents that

I’ve had the df54 for about 3 weeks and no issues to date. I have no idea how much nicer a $4, 5, 6, 700 grinder would be so there is no reference point on that end, but it’s been good enough to work on getting a nice tasting shot from my gaggia classic pro (2019). I clean it every few days and there is definitely some build up but it hasn’t been unruly. We switch between grind setting 90 for pour over and sub 15 for espresso pretty easily. You’ll need to run the machine while you’re adjusting down just fyi. Mine came with true zero being -3 so it was pretty well calibrated. Idk - it’s good for now and I don’t wanna throw down a stack on something else

I like to pick up my df54 and give it a good clunk on the counter to get rid of any retained grinds - WORKS LIKE A CHARM. That with a little bit of water and i dont have many issues at all. Great coffee for me

Yea so i share my grinder with my partner who makes a pour over every day - she always makes her coffee first so im always adjusting g the dial back down from 90 to 11 and it definitely isn’t some Steve Jobs level tactile experience where you sneeze on it and it moves with the aid of 1000 ball bearings. It’s no problem though, I would never return it because of the difficulty. I do it one handed. And what James probably didn’t do is keep the grinder ON while adjusting down, otherwise it feels much harder. The tightness of the dial makes it nice when you’re fine tuning near the bottom though because you can easily go a half point left or right to get it even more dialed without over turning. For the price, I’m super happy with it

Yeah I am selling my DF54. If anyone is interested in it and lives near Illinois PM me.

I got rid of that machine and got a DF54, then upgraded that to DF64. It’s wild that the Opus does not even meet the standards of a Fellow product to me.

I have an opus. It was a bit tricky to learn the micro adjustment system but overall it works fine and I've been able to dial in every bag of beans I've tried thus far. Some retention but usually easy to pump or shake out. If I had to do it again though I think I'd try for the df54.

Mine has been great. Paired with bambino plus.

Your coffee tastes acidic as the OXO is not grinding fine enough, likely underacting the coffee. I had this same OXO grinder when I started my journey and it was not fine enough at setting one. You will need to upgrade to a specific espresso grinder like Baratza ESP, DF54 (my rec) or Kinggrinder K6 (manual affordable option)

Bro you have an amazing grinder with the sculptor. Just keep it. If you’re super hard up for cash df54 is really hard to beat rightnow or ode gen2. But personally i’d stick with the sculptor and experiment more with agitation and different water recipes. Those two variables are more significant than slightly diff particle distributions imo

1. Manual grinders are not that bad if you're grinding for 1 cup. But not timemore c2. Get something long lasting like kingrinder k6, 1zpresso, etc. 2. In addition to being electric, electric grinders bring a level of consistency in brewing process. Hand grinder output can change based on how fast you're rotating, what angle you're holding the grinder at, etc. But if you must get an electric, dont cheap out. Cheap grinders will not grind fine and consistent enough to be respectable. The bare minimum is bartaza encore esp or the best budget being df54.

As for electric grinder, besides the Baratza Encore, you might also consider a [white DF54](https://miicoffee.shop/products/miicoffee-df54-single-dose-coffee-grinder?variant=49254366904615) , with flat burrs, but that sells at USD 229 (a bit outside of the stated budget, but so is the Baratza Encore :) . The DF54 is a very good value.

This list seems somehow outdated, and is missing some important items, that are popular and offering a great value. Hand grinders: **Kingrinder K6, K2, K0, Timemore C3S, C2S** Electric: **Zerno Z1**, soon also **Z2** (80mm, now in a prototype stage), **Mazzer Philos, DF64V, Sculptor 078s,064, and Lagom 01** (although grinders with burrs larger than 83 mm is a rather niche ultra-high-end, so not sure really, if EK43, P100 and L01 make sense to be included in such a list) Also: In this list, the **Fellow Ode2** is placed in "budget-friendly", while **Fellow Opus** in "mid-range/prosumer"?? :) Ode costs almost twice as Opus, and while Ode is rather popular for manual brews, Opus is not that popular neither for brew, nor for espresso, although technically "it can do both". (edit to add) Also missing, the **DF54** low-cost electric grinder.

Good to know. I ended up getting a D54 recently and so far so good. Now I just need to upgrade from my moka pot to an espresso machine.

Yea, seems that the DF54 would have to wait for the DF64 gen 2 to get updates?!?! Either way, seems like there are a lot of us happy with the DF54…seems most of the professional reviews were good as well.

I've had mine for \~ 2 months now, my first flat burr grinder and my first "quality" home espresso setup (GCP Evo Pro). I've been very happy with it, but so far I've only been grinding medium roast espresso. No clogs and only intermittent mild static issues. I do clean it about once a week and most of the time I do RDT. In one of the first times I really noticed static, all of the grounds were sticking to the side of the chute. I cleaned it and haven't experienced this big of an issue with static since. I personally think that all grinders must experience static at times dependent on the environment?! Regarding retention, I was measuring weight after grinding and it was typically .1 gram, sometimes .2grams. Isn't that pretty good? Regarding zero point, I know my actual is like -4. Yea, a little annoying but I just do the "math" if I'm looking at what others are using for a certain roast if they have there zero point dialed, but it all varies a bit anyways. I saw the USA distributor has a vid where they take off the sticker and re-position it. Mine is off by so little I didn't bother and I'm not really going by others and their settings so pointless to me. I almost bought a DF64 gen 2 but it seems I see many complaints on the 'net about that model as well so what to believe?! Maybe when I Gaggiuino my machine I'll upgrade the grinder, but so far, it's been a great purchase and I'm quite happy.

I can say that I have used the D54 intermittently for pour overs and sometimes french press. When you open it up for this style it does some annoying things. It seems bean remnants get stuck in the mechanism somewhat easily as it’ll make some weird noises at times. Then it will clear itself and you can see grinds get spit out. In addition, definitely have static more with coarse settings that you have to manage by cleaning more often. For espresso it has been great, rock solid. If I was changing styles a lot, I would get a K6 for pour overs and French press.

Having had a D54 for quite some time now, I love mine. One thing not often mentioned...use one of those bulb blowers. Once a week I use a bulb blower at the top, then use a pipe cleaner style brush up the chute, and then finish up with the bulb blower up the chute. Never fails that coffee "dust" comes out with this last move. Pretty much every time when you go from a very coarse setting back down, the machine will make chirping type sounds. Seems to be remnants of coffee beans and was disconcerting at first. This being said, retention is very low ime, typically .1 or .2 max, so little I never bother to check these days. Always hot start and always adjust coarseness down with the machine on.

>Regarding zero point, I know my actual is like -4 You too, huh? Glad to know that other people have that experience too. I just got mine yesterday and I'm worried at how fast the water shoots through the grinds on a 4 setting. Like, really? 4 isn't fine enough for espresso?

Hmm. That's not good news. I posted something, and we'll see what others say. Maybe there's a way to calibrate it?

I'll take a look. Burr alignment is a good thought. Might be an issue. I'll have to see.

Had it for 2 months, no issues so far. Very little static, no clogging and nice grind results with very little retention.

Belgian here, from the ones mentioned the baratza esp offers great value. If you could stretch the budget a tiny bit, you could get the df54. Quite an upgrade from the ones you mentioned and costs 267 shipped to Benelux from dfcoffee.com

Shipping took a bit longer than estimated, but really can't complain as they we're quite responsive (mails answered within the day). Still very happy with the DF54, for the price range it's one of the best.

No, no taxes or customs fees, took a couple of days longer than expected though. In the end very happy with it

They're completely different grinders, but both offer good results. I mainly use the K6 for pourover, but it makes a very nice espresso, more texture and sweetness, less complexity. If you're up for a little workout, the K6 is probably the best bang for buck for espresso. The df54 is easier to use and offers a broader palate due to the flat burrs. I chose the DF54 because of space constraints and am still very happy with it. Coming from a Eureka Mignon Perfetto, the DF54 is better for medium and light roasts. If starting out, I would say to go for the K6, great bang for buck and you wont regret it. Available on amazon belgium for 99, so best bang for buck and a nice little workout in the morning. Takes about 40 seconds to grind 20 grams.

Pulled the trigger on one. Got it home, seasoned it and began dialling in my recipe. I’m so happy with it so far. Yes, it’s early days but amazed so far. I have an old solis maestro which is a tank but not very accurate. Great for filter/drip but difficult for espresso and changing constantly between the two is a real pain. Read all the reviews and figured the 54 is made for me. Great design. Very sturdy. Unbelievably quiet coming from the solis. I’ve seasoned it and made some drinks and haven’t had any chaff, and the retention is virtually non existent with the bellows (for me). Flavours are superb, so much better. I find around 15-18 depending on roast gives me the best grind. Early days but I’m very happy with this purchase.

I have a solis, I think it’s the old version of Baratza. It’s a great grinder for the price and is an absolute tank. Had it for like 15 years. But the DF54 is in a different class. There actually a review on YouTube of the two as they are comparable price range but performance wise, as a single dose grinder, the 54 all day every day.

Yes it’s great. Works really well for me. Very low retention. I bought a small brush and an air spray to keep the defuser clean and it works a treat. Haven’t had a single clog since I started doing this as soon as the static builds. For the price it’s a gem.

Here’s my DF54 5 month review. It’s a lot less rosy than what other reviewers have posted on YouTube. At this price point of $220 it makes excellent espresso grind, however it does come with some major flaws compared to much more expensive grinders.

I mentioned in the video that at the $220 price point, nothing compares. I owned the Fellow Opus right before the DF54 and I returned it within 90 days to Container Store. It had way more static issues, no ability to use your own dosing cup, and did not grind as consistently as the DF54. In the end, like I said, the reason I’m comparing it to more expensive units is because to me, the real trade-off is whether or not it’s worth it to step up another $400 for the next best grinder. Under $300 there is no question to me that the DF54 grinder is unmatched. I just want people contemplating buying it to know its shortcomings so they aren’t disappointed. Hope this answers your question.

I agree with everything you said. The asterisks you added are very important ones. If limiting or contemplating what kind of beans you’re going to use a non-starter for people, they should take pause. If the possibility that having to return a bad copy and buy multiple times is a non-starter, perhaps reconsider this purchase. But overall, like I said at the end of the video, there is no comparable grinder at this price point. The question is whether it’s worth it to someone to shell out an additional $400 just to not have these issues. For me, it’s not right now. I’m happy enough with the DF54.

Video seemed fair and relatively positive, though shared here with a perhaps unfair title. And I say that after spending my first two hours with the DF54 fully clogged.

My df54 has never clogged but also not a huge deal if it does. Just shove the little brush up in it and back to grinding

The real answer is the delonghi ECP3420 with the df54 grinder. All in you’re looking at $330. Will make espresso as good as anything else. If you want to upgrade the milk frother you can buy a separate milk frother.

I love my DF54

I have a DF54 with my Bambino and it's excellent

that's because most people don't have issues. It's the vocal minority majority of the time. I have a DF54 and have never had an issue with clogging yet that's all you hear about whenever it's mentioned.

the grind time on espresso for df54 seems quite high for me. Mine normally takes around 17-20 seconds to grind at espresso range.

Hoffmann's video is still relevant i think, since there's not been many additions to the sub £500 market since that review except the DF54. When it comes to bang for your buck, I think the DF54 beats them all. Essentially it's the same as the df64 stock, just a smaller version and almost half the price.

1. Unless you're grinding for loads of people at the same time, the extra time to grind barely is barely an issue. It's only 10-13 seconds more than grinders like the DF64. That time flies by when you're prepping for the coffee. 2. The chute issue is overstated. All you do is once a week stick a brush up the chute and give a bit of a wiggle. That's it. Especially when considering the price you're paying, that is not a big drawback. 3. The stock burrs on the DF54 are great. Personally I prefer them over grinders like the Niche Zero. For the price you're paying, I don't think not being able to upgrade the burrs (at the moment) is that much of an issue. 4. The pricing between the df64 and df54 differs depending where you are. In the UK, it's a £160 difference which is not a small amount and is definitely a big enough jump in price to make someone consider whether it's worth paying that much more for just for a little quicker grind time. It seems even less worth it if you're not looking to upgrade the burrs.

The stock burrs on the 64 are not 'even better'. Look at the video Sprometheus did (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxw\_G6tQYJc). The stock burrs on the 54 and 64 produce almost identical grind and cup quality.

It's quite funny you mention Tom from Grinderlab because he states in his DF54 review that it's the best bang for buck grinder on the market.

I believe the DF54 would be the better choice given how much I've read from other users complaining about retention issues with the Fellow Opus. Also, bear in mind that the Fellow Opus has a conical burr, opposed to the DF54 which has a flat burr. Recently I upgraded my Bambino setup at home, from using a Kingrinder K4 to a DF54 and I couldn't be any happier, super easy to use and no retention at all. My gf wanted to get into espresso so I literally got her a really simple setup this last weekend, consisting of a Delonghi Stilosa and a Timemore C3S, man I was really impressed by that grinder, it was way easier to grind than with the K4. Had I not used the C3S I would've thought that manual grinders were really difficult for lighter roasts, which it is indeed the case, however the K4 was just WAY HARDER than it should with those roasts compared to the C3S. Either way, you can order any of those grinders from Amazon and return them if you find anything wrong with them, both the DF54 and the Fellow Opus are sold at Amazon and I believe right now every item has extended return periods until Jan 31.

Using the lid itself as a bellows, I can get pretty minimal retention. Not sure why everyone complains about that. I think you made a good choice with the DF54 though. Opus adjustments are quirky and I wouldn’t recommend for a beginner. That being said, I recommended it to OP in case they’re on a strict budget.

How about a slim machine like a Profitec Go, paired with a Turin DF54 ? Will easily do 2 back to back milky drinks.

Your budget is fine. You can easily get a good grinder that will do both, which generally means grind fine enough for espresso as that is the more demanding. Most people prefer, for multiple types of coffee making (esp. pour over and espresso), flat burrs. Just a preference thing, conical burrs can still work well with pour-over, it is just that classical people look for greater clarity with pour-over. The best answer is two grinders, one conical and one flat, but that is luxury, however, given how good and inexpensive conical hand grinders are now, that can make for a best of both worlds solution. One key question is if you want to single-dose or hopper feed. The workflow is different with pros and cons of either way. It is just a preference thing. Most people on this sub seem to be single-dosing (inc. me), just be aware that may not be what you prefer. If it was me, I would get a good budget flat electric grinder like the Turin DF54 or the Fellow, and a conical hand-grinder (a Kingrinder, Timemore or 1zpresso). If I wanted to favour espresso and only do pour-over occasionally, I would look at a grinder like the Option O Casa. Finally, if you want to go with a hopper grinder, the Eurekas models are worth looking at. As a small tip - pay attention to the noise level of the electric grinder, if you are noise sensitive. Some of them can be annoyingly loud. Hope it makes sense and helps.

\> I would prefer a single dose as I use 3 types of coffee beans I use here and there. Agreed, go with a single-dosing grinder. \> I am thinking of getting the DF54 My strong recommendation is to get one via a retailer who can support you if there are issues and not direct. My own experience of buying directly from Turin is woeful; their customer service was non-existent. If you buy from an in-country retailer, they are responsible for sorting any issues. \> Would you recommend a DF64 instead or try and get a DF54? I had a v1 DF64 previously - IMO, it is probably the best value grinder on the market today, given its price and its ability to have different burrs. Given you say you don't mind loud noise (and it is, IMO a very loud grinder), this seems like a good option for you (but buy via an in-country retailer). \> Off topic, but it seems like the DF series is way more favoured than the Niche. I am not so sure. There is a lot of talk and recommendations for them, but when you see pics of people's setups, there are an awful lot of niche zeros out there (inc. with me - I have one alongside an Option-O P64 and some hand-grinders). The Zero is not favored so strongly as the flat grinders for pour-over, it tends to get used primarily for espresso, which IMO is is very good for. Plus, has the best workflow and sound (quietness) of any grinder I have used. \> On another note, I am thinking of getting a Lagom Casa A superbly well-built and capable grinder. Option-O are legendary in the business.

DF54 if you're on a budget, DF64 gen 2 if you have the coin. Both will make the same quality coffee, the DF64 is faster. These are durable, overbuilt, and repairable. I've had the standard off the shelf burr grinder from Target, Breville burr grinder, and the Baratza before.

DF54. Just got one from espresso outlet and paid $229(?) I think. Haven’t touched my 1Zpresso since. Makes delicious pour over and I honestly don’t see myself ever going back to hand grinding unless traveling. With a new born at home the work flow upgrade is just 🤌

I also have a BB plus. I also have hand grinder; Kingrinder K2 that can grind fine enough for espresso (some models can't). It's well made, durable and grinds perfectly fine for dark and light roast. Dialling in is relatively easy once you get used to their "click" system and I can usually dial in a new bag of beans within two-three shots. Great grinder overall. All that said if I had the choice I'd buy an electric grinder. Hand grinding is tedious and the novelty wears off quick. Doing back to shots for me and my wife is a chore and makes your workflow just a little harder. My next purchase is 100% an electric grinder, most likely Varia VS3, or Opus or a DF54 So my opinion is if you can afford a decent electric grinder go for it.

Newbie here. I received my DF 54 yesterday. I use a Breville Bambino+. It took me about three tries to get a decent cup of espresso. The instructions in my Bambino say to use the double wall filter if beans are more than 30 days old, which mine are, barely. Will be getting some fresh ones shortly. On the first try, I set the grind at 15 and nothing came out. The second try, I used the single wall filter on the same setting, and it sputtered, and came out bitter. I am assuming that is what you guys are referring to as choking the machine. On the third try, I set it at 17 and the espresso came out great! I’m on my second double shot of the day, for scientific purposes only! Very excited to have this new product.

I'm on 5 cups and still dialing it in. Also choked my Bambino at 16 and 20 was sour. Accidentally used the double wall the first go since I was using up a tin of illy prior. My current beans are only 5 days old, natural process. Really hoping to dial this in cuz these beans are expensive but I know they make a crazy good shot as I've tried it in the shop already.

Thx for this 🙏🏻 im new to coffee game but i bought df54 2 days ago so this post is really helpful.. btw what do you mean by hot start? Thx in adv 🙏🏻

Ah ic.. I'll do that from now on 🙏🏼

Happy to see I'm not the only one with a higher number of clicks then OP. IT DOES depends on types of beans because I finished a bag of beans just when I got the grinder, and it was perfect at 15, then choked up on a the next bag which was different beans and roast.  Also, my true zero is sitting at almost past the little warning triangle. I hope to see someone find a hack for changing the zero on the dial. 

Lots of variability. I'm at 28, and 15 choked my machine.

I'm no expert, but I'd imagine there's a big difference between continuous operation and operation under normal parameters (30-45 seconds of on time). Most home grinders can lose a lot of life when using them not as designed. Seasoning commercial grinders is a completely different story, because they're built for constant operation, long life, etc. Edit: Not saying that seasoning is gonna necessarily kill a grinder or remove lifespan, but if its done, it needs to be done considering the design limitations of home grinders (short-ish grinding intervals, long rest time), so it doesn't overheat or over-stress the motor.

I wouldn't say its troublesome, its just poorly phrased. Grinder manufacturers almost universally recommend against grinding a lot of coffee at once, but they say its to "ensure correct operation". Eureka states no more than 160 grams at a time. I haven't found any other retailer of the DF series that recommends frequent cleaning. Its a bit odd. After about a week of use (3 espressos a day), I just opened it up, and aside from a small amount of residue that was entirely acceptable (0.3 grams), I really don't see why it needs such frequent cleaning. What is troublesome about these grinders is that because they're white label products, the retailers can provide no guidance. The factory doesn't provide any information on end-user use. Cleaning recommendations, seasoning recommendations, etc. are arbitrary and seem to vary from retailer to retailer. I took this into account, and still went with a DF54 because the value proposition was too appealing. In Canada, the DF54 came out to $30 more than the Encore ESP, and $150-300 less than any other espresso grinder. I could just about buy two of them and still come out ahead of a grinder from a well-known brand. As an aside, after taking it apart out of curiosity, I don't really see much that can go wrong. Its extremely well-built, and extremely simple. Its just a motor and burrs. I'd say it has a better build quality (both internal and external) than the Niche zero, a grinder that's about $1000 CAD. If DF refines the design and swaps to a brushless motor, these grinders can easily compete with "endgame" grinders. Check out these teardowns: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjIXgt1\_CxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjIXgt1_CxE) - df64 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFFHke2KxpI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFFHke2KxpI) - niche zero

Got my DF54 today. Still playing around the Setting. at 10/15 both setting choke my gaggia classic evo pro. 25 is too long and 30 being too short. So for my unit should work with 27ish.

I have a DF54 with my Bambino. I like it a lot. The main thing is the size, it’s seriously petite. If I didn’t have the DF54 I probably would have gotten a nice hand grinder. Though, I take a while to dial in as a beginner, so having an automatic grinder is nice when I’m doing 6 shots 😅

DF54 user here. This has been my exact experience.

No problem! To be totally clear, it’s probably more like every 2 weeks for me, but really it all depends on how much I use it. And it didn’t begin to be a problem until it had been used for a few months. I feel like they should just put a statement in the manual that the element will need occasional cleaning and include some cheap tool to do it, because in practice, it’s barely even a problem. I think it maybe gets kinda overblown on here.

I don't think it's as simple as this, especially in the current market. In terms of grind quality and build, there are some remarkable electrics on the market that use the same or similar burr geometry as manuals for about the same price. For example, the Varia vs3 uses 38mm burrs very similar to one's you can find in high-end Timemores. The burr geometry being very similar, presumably, the grind will also be similar. However, electrics greatly accelerate your workflow. At this point, it's difficult to even suggest that you're likely to get better build quality out of a manual compared to an electric because of offerings like the DF54's all aluminium build. It certainly used to be, maybe 4 years ago, that you get a better grinder in terms of build-quality in the manual market compared to the electrics. But this point, I think it comes down to preference.

This grinder is essentially punching well above its weight class. For what it offers it can top grinders that are £100-150 more expensive. For the \~£200 market a strong case can be made that this is the best in that range. This is a bleeding edge recommendation as this specific model is brand new to the market. You’ll likely be good for grinders for years with this one.

Went for the DF54 because it was packaged with the machine I wanted for a Cyber Monday bundle. I think even without the bundle I would have went to route of the DF54 just because I like the way the shape is more. Just had a nice look to it being a cylinder. From what I’ve read and watched on YouTube everyone mentions how awesome it is especially for the price so I’m sure I won’t be disappointed :)

Hey, it’s been amazing. I’m loving it each and every day. No complaints at all.

I watched half the video. Personally I only get static with the stock plastic dosing cup. Using an aftermarket metal cup and no noticeable static. Note I'm not saying a scientific test won't find some . I'm saying I don't notice any. OTOH with the plastic cup? Wow static! Retention? Everything has some. Look at some of the posts on the more expensive DF64 you'll find some retention. I haven't seen it clog yet but I'm not using oily beans. The issue I have is it's slow. But it's also €250 delivered here. The 270 grinder is €350. Ask people and they'll tell you it's noisy. Even if you jump up to €1000 you can find issues if you look hard enough. Ask yourself if you care about the issues. Nothing is perfect. That's before you start thinking about what you do with the money.

Compared to much more expensive grinders. How about grinders in the same pricepoint? Oh wait, there is Encore ESP and Fellow Opus, both having the same amount or even more issues and without stepless adjustment. And then there are more Chinese grinders with random issues. Buy cheap, get cheap and just know that in this range even the cheapest Eurekas have issues. The properties in the DF54 overrun the issues that are a many, but not everyone has those. Typical Chinese lottery. At least with Opus and Encore ESP you pretty much know what you are getting without surprises. I've had the DF54 for months now and there is no static even with the plastic cup as long as I clean the chute with a tube brush every now and then. Absolutely 0 clogging issues. Very puffy and beatiful coffee powder without clumps. Some retention, nothing major. Not too noisy. A bit on the slow side. My advice: buy a DF54 and return it until you get a good sample or buy more expensive known brand grinders.

I disagree a little, if you follow it up with the little brush tool in the chute, I get a mild amount of grounds that fall out. But it's not very much overall. Additionally, I know it's time to brush the chute (lol) when I start getting static cling.

Espresso is an expensive hobby so if you want to get into it, make sure your really into coffee. Beginners machines start at 500$ and grinders start at 200$ anything below those price points are not capable of making actual espresso. Beginner setup would look something like this. Bambino plus, paired with DF54, or Eurka mignon grinder. You of course can spend more, but that's just an example of the most "budget friendly" setup. Because it only goes up from there lmao.

I would recommend DF54 for your needs.

Have you tried the df64 italmill on pourovers? It's great, much clearer than a k-ultra! I think the df54 is a good choice, if you plan to use it for spro.  Or you can get the ode gen2, maybe swap burrs to play with.  Edit: if you dont own one handgrinder, get the zp6 or the k6. They're both worth your penny even if you get both lol

Why the gell is no one suggesting Bambino + DF54? Only get a hand grinder when you're really really sure you want to do that for espresso.

DF54 takes up minimal space - Do ittttttt

I got a DF54 in December and I couldn’t be happier with it

Yeah pre ground coffee is very very bad, this is why the first advice here is to buy a (good) grinder. The df 54 is solid and probably the first recommendation here, but really any *burr* grinder will improve your coffee by 100x.

It's definitely more "prosumer" than a lot of the other cheaper grinders, but I feel just as much as the DF54 that everyone is now acting like is the greatest grinder to ever exist... im thinking about picking up a manuale as a cheap, sturdy, repairable, flat burr grinder since I have an ESP (conical) that does a decent job but I occasionally feel i need more granularity and I do enjoy flat burr profiles now that ive tried them.

Easiest decision, DF every time, a little bit more costly but a 10x better grinder in every way

I'm no expert AT ALL, but here's my anecdote: I owned a cheapo espresso machine that with store bought espresso made mediocre at best shots, but coffee-like enough for a weak latte. Then I joined this sub and found out there's lots of people with my exact machine and a decent grinder who say they get good quality (not elite, but good) normal strength shots. So that's what I did, I bought the DF54. I'm about a week in and I will say that after a little while running beans through to "season" the grinder and then some trial and error to figure out volume and grinder settings, my shots are pretty good with minimal work now. The grind setting I've been using (just got new, different beans so apparently that'll change) is considerably finer than the store espresso that's available where I live, so I'm guessing that's the primary difference. About a week in and it's been a good experience getting the grinder.

Any grinder that can grind fine enough for espresso is going to be much better than pre-ground coffee. Pre-ground coffee, because of moisture, oxygen, larger surface area etc gets oxidized super quickly. It basically goes stale within hours, if not minutes. All that, provided that the coffee beans are fresh to begin with. About 7-10 days after roast is best. 5 Weeks after roast we are getting to stale territory. The cheapest grinder I would personally go for is the df54. It's quality, rather cheap, and miles better from pre-ground coffee.

Know that if you are going to pick one of the 3, the df54 is better than both of the rest.

The Ditting steel burrs are the only flat burrs I've tried that provide enough clarity on filter while still producing enough fines to make reasonably traditional espresso.

I'd personally get a filter-only grinder. Wait for a sale, grab an Ode Gen 2, and buy an espresso grinder when the time comes (DF54 is insane value). The best grinders for double duty are medium-high clarity conical grinders like Comandante, K-Ultra etc IMO. The Femobook A5 and Lagom Casa are a couple electric grinders that are in the same category (I haven't tried either, but they're well reviewed). I previously used a Lagom Mini for both filter and espresso and it was fantastic. The DF54 and 64 both do a decent job at filter, but it's not great. The 64 mm SSP MP burrs are often recommended as a do-it-all burr set, but they are for a very specific espresso profile and they are not beginner friendly for espresso. I didn't enjoy the espresso with them. SSP Cast are supposed to be decent for both, but you're giving up the clarity everyone is always seeking. A couple other decent options that I've tried are Ditting 54mm steel burrs in the Vario+ and Eureka's 50 mm brew burrs in an entry level mignon. The UX is not ideal with either of these setups compared to a grinder designed to single dose. If the Ditting burrs fit in the DF without crazy mods it would be a great option. Edit: I forgot to mention that there are now brew burrs available for the DF54. I'm planning to grab a set to try out once they're available in Canada.

This is what I did and I am happy with it - Ode Gen 2 and DF54. I am a 75% pour over household but wanted the option for espresso. I thought getting a manual grinder just for espresso would be the best idea but quickly learned it was a huge mistake. I also like not having to do a huge adjustment range by having two dedicated grinders.

If you can get a 500$ grinder instead of a 200$ one you should. That being said, the Df54 seems incredible for 225-ish $.

Started with a K6 Kingrinder for $80. Now using a DF54 for $230. Taste wise I can't really tell the difference as I make mostly milk based drinks. They're both good. It became tedious hand grinding every morning so I bought an electric grinder. Otherwise hand grinders are amazing for freshly ground beans.

Amazon has the Fellows Opus on sale right now for $156. Personally though I'd just save up a bit more and get the DF54.

This is exactly what I did. It truly is the way.

I have owned this grinder for 6+ years and still use it regularly. Still works great for the coarser side brews (I like Tetsu's recipes). I also have a Timemore C3 (for early morning quiet grinding) and a DF54 for finer grind control. Each has a place in my home.

If I was you I would buy a df 54 and use it for espresso, then use the left over money for a hand grinder for pour over. The biggest thing I see is people frustrated with dialing in their espresso when they last used their grinder for pour over. You can use a drill on most hand grinders.

Because it's sold out maybe buy a hand grinder that can do both and switch back and forth for now. I have what would now be called the time more c3 esp. I bought it as the time more c3 and bought a modified adjustment plate on Ali express which tripples the number of positions to choose from. I will eventually get the df54 but I don't mind grinding for the one drink I have a day. I think the df54 is simply such a good bang for buck that it doesn't make sense to go for something else. But that's just my opinion.

The VS6 is in a league of it's own, but I'd recommend it only if you plan on getting a few extra burrs in the future. Sure, the stock burr is highly versatile and I've already put 3kg through it, but there is so much more left on the table. If you're still discovering and not willing to invest, sure, I'd recommend a DF54 and a hand grinder just like everyone does in the beginning. A hand grinder is also always good to have laying around just in case your electric is unavailable or you happen to travel. If you're into the VS6, I can tell you that: 1. The adjustment is so precise that you could switch coffees even at espresso level and still fall on the dial in 2. The alignment is perfect each time you (easily) change the burrs 3. The Silver Plasma and Gold burrs make exceptional espresso and filter, the first being body/sweetness focused while the later being clarity focused. 4. It's a premium grinder, has minimal retention, has a plasma generator, the motor is powerful and has a lot of torque, variable rpm. You could have a read on my detailed experience in [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1fetpr0/comment/loon8g8/)

"but, I do understand your point on the VS6 if I am not purchasing SSP's later on" You should check Varia's website since only their proprietary burrs work. "Can I ask how much you favor the 54 than the 64 gen 2 or varia vs3 gen 2?" The flavor difference between df54 and df64 is minimal, but more of a speed upgrade as well as convenience. The DF54 is still in it's infancy and has some quircks on it's own, one being that it requires much more regular cleaning for it not to clog. With the DF64 you still get the option to change the burrs later on, although I enjoy the DF64V more since the variable RPM makes a difference in shot quality and it can also be dialed to the minimum for high clarity filter. Varia VS3 is a grinder I'm not familiar with, nor I can recommend it as a learning curve towards upgrading to the VS6 later on. Each grinder is different. That being said, it's a conical and I don't particularly prefer conicals. I'd rather get a hand grinder that's twice as cheap and will never fail. The DF54 is by far the best bang for your buck, but if you can stretch to a DF64 it would be great.

Before going with Opus, make sure you understand its Byzantine adjustment mechanism with macro and micro adjustments. I would much prefer a Baratza ESP or DF54 to the Opus.

DF grinders are sold with paper thin profit margins, and I've never seen any go on sale, other than refurbs or open box items. Baratza has a much better chance of going on sale. But I would much rather have a DF54 than an ESP.

DF54 over the other 2.

Yep. There are decent conical burr grinders out there especially for espresso. The Baratza Encore ESP and Fellow Opus are two good ones around $200. The DF54 is a good flat burr grinder for just over $200 but I think its sold out.

if he is espresso only, I think I would be happy with any of the three. if he will consider doing pourover coffees, then the DF54 may be better for both.

I think the D40+ gets over looked sometimes. If he is going to single dose, I don't really love the work flow on the ESP, and the Opus dialing is confusing as others have mentioned. It could be a another good conical option, that I think looks nicer with good workflow. (and other colors... LOL) But IMO, the DF54 is really the best value. in stock here: [https://df64coffee.com/products/df54?srsltid=AfmBOopYMEcpKT-JNdx7QfykpvnbyRZWm8DiOAwC61uZdbgn1H5a3-ix](https://df64coffee.com/products/df54?srsltid=AfmBOopYMEcpKT-JNdx7QfykpvnbyRZWm8DiOAwC61uZdbgn1H5a3-ix) [https://miicoffee.shop/products/miicoffee-d40plus-single-dose-coffee-grinder?srsltid=AfmBOoqHcrPMJEDn47NNxRjrBQlZKfuJhM8Xn1u7DemIWhmKL9LI8U1Z](https://miicoffee.shop/products/miicoffee-d40plus-single-dose-coffee-grinder?srsltid=AfmBOoqHcrPMJEDn47NNxRjrBQlZKfuJhM8Xn1u7DemIWhmKL9LI8U1Z)

At your budget, look for good grinders and ignore burr type. Watch James Hoffmann and Lakce Hedrick videos on YouTube. They both had good reviews of budget grinders. James Hoffmann in particular praises 2 conical burr grinders for making coffee very similar to flat burrs so things are a spectrum and not black and white. What is way more important than burr type is have a listen to the noise quality of the grinders. Some have noises that are showstoppers in the quality and not necessarily loudness. I am biased because I really like my DF54 but it's not like I dislike my conical hand grinder. My DF54 produces coffee with less texture in the mouth feel (I think that's what the pros call "cleaner") and a bit higher in acidity (I think that is "brighter"). The perceived sweetness is therefore easier to come by because there is less things overwhelming the taste buds.

I use DF54 for aeropress and bambino Couldn't be happier with this purchase Upgraded from a shitty Bodum grinder...man what a difference DF54 does a very good job when i need coarse grinds for aeropress and fine for espresso And it's quiet

I had one and it does not. It would also not be great for French press, filter is about as coarse as it goes.

I’ve had the exact Bodum grinder from the image and I’ve used it for maybe half a year before also looking for a different solution. It was loud, produced fines like nothing else I’ve tried, and static was atrocious. The timer was indeed a terrible function, and with larger batches it started heating up quite a bit. Coffee also tasted mediocre, if I look back at it. I used it for v60s and French press, and with the latter I always had muck in my final cup, whatever I tried. With 70-80 grams doses I can’t recommend the DF54 enough. I’ve debated quite a few before I settled on the DF54, but what sells it for me is how quick it grinds for filter. To be fair, I’ve used my Kingrinder K4 for about a year and had to grind two batches of 30g back to back, so any electric grinder is a big upgrade, but with the speed, taste and (for me) looks, the DF54 is unbeatable for me.

DF54 is treating me REALLY well

So to start, I'd say you get a flat bottom dripper instead of a v60/conical dripper. Tho if you're steadfast on this brewer then thats fine, just know that v60 tend to require precision for good brews- unless you have the perfect particle distribution on your grinder. Which brings me to another point; Coffee Grinders. Depending on how you want your coffee to taste, a grinder with a specific type of burrset will be your best friend in that situation. • Hand grinders, albeit 99% of them are conical burrs, are the cheapest and yet most flexible option for the price range. [E.g. Comandante's Nitro-blade and 1zpresso's X-series have a more sweeter profile, and K-series are more acidity driven.] • Electric grinders on the other hand tend to have a gap between conical and flat burrs for different price ranges. For v60 sweeter profile, I'd go for a flat burr grinder like Fellow Ode, Timemore sculptor, or DF54. Keep in mind that no matter which grinder, it will vary alot in terms of clarity and roundness in the cup. Also make sure you use the right water quality for brewing, as it can decide whether it will make it more difficult for you or make it easier to brew.

Love this video and the £500 one. As someone who's been grinding manually for espresso for close to three years, I've definitely reached the point where I'm prepared to make my life a little easier. I wonder if I can be cheeky, James (or anyone else kind enough to answer), why would I choose to go for the DF64 over the DF54?

Not sure if anyone will see this about a day after the original post, but I'm curious about people's thoughts on the SD40 instead of the DF54. It doesn't matter as I already have it, but I was cross shopping the SD40, DF54, and ESP. Ultimately, my wife made the decision for me because she felt it matched our kitchen better (I was leaning ESP). It works well enough, but I do wonder if I'm missing out on better espresso because I'm fairly new to the game (only have had a GCP since the start of this year).

I think at this stage I wonder why I would bother with spending more - it all sounds rather excellent from the ESP - I have the normal Encore already - but also Fellow and of course the df54. Also by the way the lid on the Baratza also works as a sort of bellows :D

Got my DF54 a couple months ago and love it. Really don't think you could go wrong with it

I've been using the df54 for a couple weeks and really enjoy it. I noticed that you weren't using the dosing cup adapter. It's a little rubber attachment that comes with the grinder and holds the cup at an angle closer to the chute. This mitigates the messiness of the grinder. And for what it's worth, my daughter says the df54 looks prettier than my ode 2.

The DF54 will be a big step up compared to the built-in grinder for sure!

Ode 2 or DF54. Both are really good. If you have any slight thought about trying out espresso, then for sure go with the DF54. Differences between them are minor, so go with your gut feeling or aesthetics.

Df54 is above and beyond on all levels. It’s solid, it’s metal, it quiet, and it’s a flat burr. It’ll last you 20 years easily.

Hi everybody, I thought I’d share some thoughts and experiences with one month with a DF54. Some background, my wife (who is a whole human being in her own right) and I are current Barista Express users and have been happy with the machine over the five years we’ve owned it. However, it is a five-year-old machine, and I’ve been keeping an eye out for affordable upgrades. Since we have a built-in grinder with the Express, I decided to first look at getting a second grinder. Doing all the usual research, I settled on the idea of a single-dose workflow grinder, but my wife expressed skepticism, she’s used the Express’s hopper. Well I sit on the idea for a few months while watching the DF54 get released with initial reviews being positive. I was hesitant for a bit after how many changes the DF64 went through, so I thought I’d come back around in a year or so. Well, suddenly we’re expecting our first child after a three-year delay due to my wife having thyroid cancer. We’re thrilled and terrified. So for the pregnancy, we’re part of a study at a local medical university and in return for participating we each got $75 Amazon gift cards and some free consultations. With the gift card, I decided on some coffee upgrades given the impeding major sleep disruption in the form of an infant. I recalled seeing someone mention MiiCoffee selling the DF54 on Amazon and I thought “Perfect”. Background over. **Build Impressions** My first observation was how heavy the machine was, this is solid. It’s not often these days that you find all metal builds on products that retail at $230. Breville for instance uses their plastic construction build which saved them costs while they’ve put more into features. The DF54 though, just surprised me with how solid it is. One thing you might not get from the pictures is how small the DF-54 is. If you’ve watched a lot of videos you’ll kind of get the idea that it’s close to the 64 in size, but the machine is quite compact, excellent from smaller spaces. My espresso buddy (let’s call him Karl) came over and also remarked on its compact size. **User Experience** One of the few grievances I have with the Express is the grinder. First, the stepped adjustability of the Express’s grinder. It’s not smooth to use, I’ve felt like I have to guess more, and sometimes dialing in new beans would take way too long. The DF54 has been the opposite in my experience, it’s been incredibly easy. The stepless adjustment dial is big and super helpful. Coffee buddy Karl uses a Eureka Specialita and we both talked about how it’s tiny adjustment dial feels outclassed by the large dial on the 54. Single dosing has been great. The time grinder of the Express can produce great coffee, but I feel like I’m always guessing on the timer for ground amount and retention bean to bean. Only now with the 54 had I realized how much work the Express grinder has over the years. By contrast, I’ve usually got excellent shots dialed in within one or two shots of waste. I’m not the most discerning and will totally just add more water to a shot that’s close rather than throw it away. Grinding speed is great for. Some reviews were that it’s slow, but I was correct in guessing that it won’t be something I’d really care about. It’s definitely louder than Karl’s Specialitia, but it’s not bad. Side review for single dosing: I splurged on a pack of 10 plastic Weber “Bean Cellars” which are fantastic.  The tubes are incredibly convenient, and I don't miss the hopper of the Express one bit. I went plastic rather than glass because these go on a shelf, and I am clumsy. As someone who has done some product design work, this is some of the best injection molded plastic ever seen, no defects or sharp burs to be found. They’re $4 a tube, but you’re getting a quality product. Also now I can say I have some Weber gear. **Coffee**  The coffee from the grinder is awesome, a significant improvement on the Express’s grinder. Every bean that has gone through both the 54 and the Express have shown significant improvement with the 54. I don’t know how to decide everything that is different, but the body and flavor are “richer”. My local coffee shop that I love is all Slayer and Mazzer machines, and I feel like I’m getting as close to that at home as I’ve ever done. The ultimate test was with my wife though. She’s rarely cared about knowing all the things I’m up to with the machine, she likes coffee in a more general way. What does she think? She can tell the difference, and now also use the 54. Trust me, this is a big deal. She mostly doesn’t have an opinion or use any of my various gadgets from over the years, regardless of application (Example, Me: “Look babe, this is in Dolby Vision HDR” Her: “...okay.”). Even she recognizes this as a real improvement. **Conclusion** I think the DF54 is an excellent coffee grinder. I feel confident in it staying an excellent coffee grinder in the long time. It represents probably the highest quality to value in electric grinders. If someone is looking to get into espresso, I find it hard to beat going the DF54 route with a Bambino+ or GCP. It’s actually kind of amazing, the value these days in espresso. Maybe it was the Pandemic that got people really looking at home coffee options differently, but it’s been exciting to watch all of this change over the past few years. As for the next part of my coffee journey, I’m hesitant to replace the Express unless it dies. However, I have some alerts set up if there’s a good deal on a quality used machine in my area, because now I can take advantage of those types of opportunities.

Thanks! Retention is very minimal in my experience!

It seems fuller with more depth, if that helps!

Almost certainly. Cold brew typically just needs a course grind, and this covers course all the way to espresso fine.

I gotta jump on the '54 bandwagon. It's solid and consistent and punches well above it's weight for the price. There are quality replacement burrs already, with more in the pipeline, that should quench your upgrade-itis well into the future as well, and cheaply, relative to larger burrs It was telling in the James Hoffman review mentioned earlier, that it came out on top for both espresso and pour over vs your other contender, among several others. It was obvious that he was impressed with the performance of the '54 overall, so you should feel confident with the purchase with that level of recommendation. You should be all set for kit with the addition of a proper grinder, and can relax and focus on consistent prep!

I got the same and it's great, but after a few months of cranking it every morning for a coffee I got the df54 just for the ease of it. Plus helps when I have people over and doesn't take me 10 minutes toanually grind the coffee for everyone

I prefer the df54 over the k6 taste, definitely taste a full bodied coffee out of it. The grinds are a lot more uniform and helps extraction. My medium roasts ended up having more "coffee" flavour while retaining the sweetness and accentuated the floral tones more. K6 was great but the df54 was definitely an upgrade for me, in terms of use, flavour and ease. Don't have to muck about with the dial at the bottom, the side tapping the release the grind from the burr, the slipping crank and my crank cracked at the plastic which made it harder to stay in place

Baratza ESP encore but if I were you I would drop the bambino plus and get a Bambino classic and take a DF54 grinder.

I think so yes, the benefit of a plus vs classic are minimal, of course if you have the budget go for it, but ultimately grinder are more important than the coffee machine. So if you have a budget for 500usd I would try to find a df54 and get a Bambino classic instead of the bambino plus and a cheap grinder. But that's just me

I own a hand grinder for my drip coffee too. However, in a pinch, if I needed to use my DF54 for drip coffee, I know I could. Is it the best for drip ? No. Is it the worse for drip ? no. So if I need a 2 in 1 it would be my choice. Having said that, I am foremost, an espresso drinker so I am happy with my DF54.

Perhaps separately each is better at one over the other, but if you are looking for one that does both, I would go with DF54.

If you can, go for a DF54. The Baratza Encore ESP is a solid grinder, but you already have a fairly similar one in you Barista Express. The DF54 is a Flat Burr grinder which is a bigger upgrade.

Go ahead and spend a little extra for the DF 54.

Ehhhhhhh idk, it's FANTASTIC for espresso but my K6 does a better job for filter grind-size.

DF54, don't over think it you will be more than happy with the purchase.

DF54 hands down

i like my df54. it's single dose, so good for trying other beans. bellows help keep retention to a minimum. also hoppers aren't airtight, so i don't know if the coffee goes stale quicker in those or not. another option could be a hand grinder. i started off w/ a kingrinder k2, which was $77 w/ amazon coupon. the k6 is often recommended here and goes for $100. for med and dark beans, i find it easy to grind for--it takes 30-40s to grind 17g. i can do the same with a light roast, but it's very much a workout. kinda like grinding at the finest setting for turkish (didn't actually need to go that fine actually). also designed to use a drill if you wanna do that, although i don't have experience with that. you have to be more conscious about tilt and rpms if you use a hand grinder, as all of that can affect the grind distribution and extraction time. an electric grinder is much less work to be consistent. if you require coffee to function in the morning, an electric grinder may be more your thing. just remember to put your dosing cup under the grinder before you start grinding 😏 if you don't have tubes yet, consider 50ml centrifuge tubes (with a skirt so it can stand on it's own). you can freeze those if you want, and are cheap compared to glass tubes.

df54 is available on amazon in the us. i'm getting mine delivered today. i think it said they're still shipping relatively soon--the df64 gen ii is estimated sometime in oct. i've heard very good things about the df54, and with prices being the same/very close, it may be better to go for the df54. what is your workflow going to be like? do you want a hopper or will you single dose? i see you said you'll get the bellows, so i guess you could really go with either one and single dose. in the us, there's going to be another prime day sale thing, so if you're a prime member, you could wait for that. otherwise, black friday/holiday sales is usually a good chance for a sale, but i don't think it's ever guaranteed

I just got the D54 with similar results

I use a df54 for French press and moka pot, for moka pot I'm sitting around 30 on the settings. So still lots of room to move finer for espresso.

Df 54 does French press, moka pot, and espresso for me. It works great with low retention, and I don't have to rdt. It's also easy to change the adjustment for different beans and brew methods.

Df54 or DF63 will be within your budget. Have the DF54 myself and it works well

DF54 is pretty good

Baratza Encore ESP or DF54. I've had both, I stuck with the DF54. Not sure if the express has the baratza burrs but if it did id lean towards the DF54 Purely so I have a flat burr and cone burr for comparison.

It has about twice less power and small chute makes you clean it more often. Plus, you pretty much stuck with default 54 mm burrs with no options to upgrade. When you can get DF64 for just 100€ more - it is a questionable choice.

And I fully agree. If you have 250 € and absolutely cannot go above it - yes, it is. But OP asks about 500£ budget. There are plenty of interesting options here, even Timemore 064 can fit there if you are lucky with price.

I had total weirdness with an Opus I bought in early September. Yeah, retention is frustrating - at least a gram unless I bang the heck out of the top and use the lid as a bellow. But my issues with it are much bigger. I had a Oxo conical grinder for pourovers and a Sette 30 for espresso. The Oxo wasn't cutting it so decided to believe the marketing that the Opus could do from espresso to cold brew. Out of the box, first thing I tried was espresso. They say 1-2 setting for espresso. Nope - got up to 3 before I could get a decent 30 second pull but I was happy with it. Moved over to pourover. Long story short, got all the way to the 11 setting and no joy - 20g/300ml v60 was taking almost 5 minutes. I changed the inner ring (after hours and hours of research to figure it out) and I'm at a "virtual" 12 setting (inner ring/outer ring combo) and I'm getting 4:15 pourovers. Still not great. They send me an outer burr, convinced this is the issue. No joy. Then a new Opus. No change. I decide to send the "new" unit back because I paid for it (support was going to refund me when I returned my original one) and put my old one back in service. Reset the inner ring back to the coarsest setting and viola, suddenly when I'm at 12, I'm getting just over 3 minute pourovers. But this is still the coarsest setting and no way I could get a cold brew or French press grind out of it. Today, I tried espresso. Dialed it all the way down to 1 (with the inner ring at coarse, so really like it's at 2) and my shots are taking 10-12 seconds. WTH? So maybe some user error but I doubt it b/c of all the adjusting, cleaning burrs I've done over 2 months. I've been playing with the inner ring, outer ring with espresso and pourover and it's clear I can't get any more coarse than just good enough for a pourover. So it's going back to Fellow for a refund as soon as the DF54 I bought on Friday arrives.

Was in your boat too and pulled the trigger on a DF54. No regrets after 3 weeks, loving this thing so far

If you get a DF54 consider buying it from a place with a solid return policy. (I used (cough) Amazon and was glad I did.) In my case it was inconsistent brew times with the identical dose and settings, and about two weeks after started clogging no matter how well I cleaned it out. Ended with a Eureka Mignon Silenzio and have been very happy with it.

Bambino + DF54, more than enough for great results and an easy workflow. You're sticking to the budget AND getting an amazing electric grinder. More than this is mostly incremental upgrades for someone obsessed with the perfect espresso and with money to spend. You can get amazing results with these two. Also, if he doesn't drink straight espresso, those tiny upgrades won't even really be noticeable in a cappuccino.

If you are looking also for a grinder i would spend those extra $200 on increasing the budget for the grinder and go for the normal bambino.

I have the bambino with a shardor grinder that cost $90, and i can pull very good shots, not excellent but good, what i mean is that if you want simplicity go for the bambino / plus and a d54 and you will be more than good, but if you plan to play a little with the machines i would go for the gaggia pd: i read in another post that some people say if they would have to choose a a machine again between the bambino and the bambino plus they would choose the normal one. and for the hard watter, the machine let you know when you have to clean it

Don’t buy a machine with an integrated grinder. A separate grinder is not only better, you can upgrade it. I bought the MiiCoffee DF54 for $229 and I love it.

Bambino + kingrinder k6(or df54 if within your budget) If he likes to drink drip coffee, you might as well go with a hario switch, scale, kingrinder k6 and a gooseneck heater(I like timemore ones) Try out darling peach from dak coffee roasters. Wild stuff.

Df54 is by far the best budget grinder I used, it made me want to sell my grinder and buy that. However, if you ask me if I would like to be without df83 or kingrinder k6, even though sounds excessive, I personally would get k6. I hate dialing again after making changes in df. If the case only applies for me drinking espresso beverages, I would get df54 Please don’t forget to check the voltage levels before ordering, and also there is a company which sends items directly with some shady methods which would help you avoid paying taxes. I also bought from there, let me know if you want the details

I did the same thing. I actually ordered a Specialita, and then cancelled the order and got a DF54. I didn't see the benefit in spending twice as much for little benefit at this stage in my espresso journey.

I’m new to serious coffee and went with a df54. It is $230 - I know that’s cheap for an espresso grade grinder but it’s a lot of dough to me. I’m very happy with my purchase!

I love my DF54. I understand there are mixed reviews but I stand by it. Mine clogged a couple of times grinding large doses early on but it was really user error. I made sure to keep the nose clean (very easy to clean the machine) and it worked fine. I’ve now had it for four months and any issues I have had are noticeably better - maybe the burrs “season” and produce less static. I get zero retention and minimal static. The only maintenance I do is occasionally swirl a bristle in the nose and puff the bellows to keep it clear.

If you don’t mind the effort, hand grinders are you perfect friend, but if you can increase it budget to 180 earlcoffee.com has DF54 just put in the code ‘special’ and you’ll get instant discount. If that’s not possible then you have options for decent hand grinders like- kingrinder k4 or k6 Timemore c3 esp ( I used this for almost 1 year then upgraded to df54) I still love the grinder. Mhw-3bomber R3- seems like a great choice for the price. Hibrew g5- it’s not a hand grinder and it’s a bit more costly than 100 pounds but you can find it around 100-140 on aliexpress. If you want some more thoughts or just have questions just DM.

I’ve been absolutely loving my DF54 for both pour over and espresso. Super low retention and with RDT the grounds come out super fluffy. The grounds seem to be pretty consistent size too. I’ve had no issues with it so far and it’s been pretty easy to clean and maintain.

Pull the trigger on the DF54, just arrived today. Still seasoning it, gone through about a pound of some cheap stuff so far and tried to make some drip coffee and tasted pretty good. Will continue to use it and report back. As for retention, the DF54 has been pretty good. Maybe 1/10 of gram loss but most of the time it’s been perfect. Some reviews I seen said the bellow didn’t fit well but I think it’s been updated. The bellow fits the ring so tight, when I pull it out, it takes the right with it! The wood stopper still looks about the same but the fit is now much improved too. Just some observations I have so far.

It’s been good but I am still playing around with it. Having only dialed in for espresso just once, the result of the shot was excellent. However, one of my original hope of getting the DF54 was to be able to switch back-and-forth between espresso and drip and not needing 2 machines and I am starting to think the DF54 is not going to be very good at this. I am not sure if this is because of the number dial indicator isn’t correct or maybe it’s because of the small retention inside the grind chamber. Whenever I switch between the 2 grind sizes, the output seems to be pretty different and resulting in much worst tasting coffee. However, if I leave the setting along and do multiple cups of drip, the grind consistency improves and there would be less “mud” in the filter. Overall I’d say this is still an excellent machine. Love the built and finish, very quiet and I don’t have any issues with speed for a single dose and retention is pretty low but not perfect. I haven’t taken the top off the DF54 to see inside the grind chamber and between the burrs but I will probably do that this weekend. I guess now that I know what to expect, I will start focusing on the burrs and tasting profile. Coming from the Rok with a conical burr compare with the DF54 flat burr, my initial impression is there is an improvement but a more detail A/B comparison would be interesting. What a viscous rabbit hole this hobby is turning out to be!

Maybe it is just new and the burrs are not full seasoned yet. I got some cheap beans to put through the DF54 the first couple of days but it was a nasty dark roast (label said medium but I don’t believe it) and I honestly don’t know if it helped with the seasoning or not. Will continue to play but I can only drink so many cups of coffee per day before I get too wired!

Don’t skimp on the grinder, either df54 or df64. Marami nagsasabi parehas flavor profile nila. Major difference is yung speed. Then yung natitira is for your machine and accessories.

Definitely don't remove 20% off grinders life cycle from seasoning. Never heard of something like that with any grinder out there. Depends on the burrs more than anything. DF54 and DF64 grinders, never had a single motor go bad that I can remember and we have sold a lot of them. So far very good motors. I have one that has ground probably thousands of lbs and hasn't had an issue.

If you use the bellows there is almost no retention

The difference is the burr size and the modability, I guess. So, you could swap out different burr sets on the 64, but maybe not on the 54 because I don't think there are a lot on the market. So, if you want to swap out your burrs for different styles, I'd go for the DF64. If you're gonna stick to one thing, I'd go for the DF54

Depends if you prefer single dosing or grind on demand. For single dosing it's hard to beat a DF54 or DF64. If you don't want to weigh out every time and don't switch beans/brew styles often, you can get a Eureka Mignon Specialita from espressocoffeeshop.com for about $450US shipped. I just did the latter and it's really improved my mornings