Multiple Brands (Turin, MiiCoffee, DF etc) - DF64E

I use my DF64 for espresso, French press and pour over with good results.

For hand grinders: - 1zpresso any of their line ups are good - timemore c2 - commandante grinders After that it just gets exponentially expensive Electric Grinders - fellow ode or opus - df64 - baratza encore - varia - lagom p64 or mini - mahlkonigs -sk40 Just look for burr grinders either conical or flat burrs would do. Depending on the shape, geometry if blades, and type, they can affect the flavor profile of the brews. You can deep dive on this whenever. But you would want a burr grinder than a blade one any day as it cuts the beans better and more consistently than the latter. I guess if you are not that invested or just want a cup of hot joe you can go ahead with that as it is better than buying pre ground

I have a DF64; I do RDT, grind, brush while grinder is running. Virtually zero retention. RDT may offer more benefits than other anti-static technology. I hit the bellows but nothing really comes out with this process. I do about 4 sprays/0.2g of RDT for an 18-20g dose. Out of curiosity, how much RDT are you doing that you feel it is a lot? I think at first 4-5 sprays seemed like a lot to me, but with zero issues over a year later and worse results if I use more or less water, it's really just "the right amount" for me, my grinder, my environment, my workflow.

If you don't mind manually grinding, **Kingrinder K6** or **Timemore C3**, both can grind for pourover/filter and espresso fine. They're the best value for money, considering you won't need to replace them at all in the next 5 years as opposed to grinders in the ₱1k range you would probably need to replace in the next 3 months. If you want auto, DF54 or DF64. If you can afford it then go straight to DF64 because its stock burrs work better for both pourover+esp compared to DF54 which you may have to replace with aftermarket burrs to work with pourover. Also you need to slow feed. Overall I recommend Kingrinder K6, best value more than Timemore because you can adjust the setting outside—amazing quality of life feature.

The DF64 is loud but the DF54 is pretty quiet and tastes the same. X54 isn't a single doser so you have to decide if you want a hopper or not.

Df64 is great for anything

Get an electric grinder for espresso 100 % DF54 or Df64 are absolutely fantastic for the money

Don’t skimp on the grinder, either df54 or df64. Marami nagsasabi parehas flavor profile nila. Major difference is yung speed. Then yung natitira is for your machine and accessories.

For espresso, konti nlng DF64 na. Otherwise you can try DF54.

Hi there, usually you get more bang for the buck with hand grinders. With electric grinders you need more parts (motor, PCB, etc.) This all adds up to the cost. For sure there are exceptions in the second hand market where you can also get good electric grinders for a tight budget. For me it's a quality of life question. Ask yourself how many cups do you want to drink every day? How many persons are served? If it's just for you and you are drinking 2 shots a day hand grinders are perfect. When your family or friends also what to have a coffee it's some serious work to be done. I started with an 1zpresso JX Pro and got some really good shot from it. In the beginning everything was like an adventure. I like grinding my beans by hand. It feels more crafty in a way. I just explored different beans and different drinks. I mostly used it at the weekend. But over time I started drinking during the week. Friends came by and wanted Cappuccini. Then got lazy and bought a DF64. Now it's just a click of a button to get my beans ready. No matter how many guests to serve. I just start sweating if I'm out of beans. What I like about manual grinders is the lower retention. Most electronic grinders have a lot of retention. If you change beans often you should keep this in mind. For hand grinders usual recommendations are Kingrinder K6 (100€) 1ZPresso JX-Pro (185€) Comandante C40 MK4 (250€) Cheapest recommend electric grinders: Baratza Sette 270 (350€) DF64 (420€) DF64 V2 (480€) DF 54 (250€)

Df54 for electric. I would also suggest looking at a premium hand grinder. I have a df64, but also love and frequently use my 1zpresso hand grinder. The effort required (for pourover) is barely noticeable, and quite enjoyable

I can’t stand the DF64 high pitch noise either. Decent grinder but shrill as hell. Take a look at the Niche Zero if you are ok with conical burrs. It’s worked wonders for me since I like darker, fuller body drinks. If not, the Oro or Specialita might be good options. Good luck.

Definitely don't remove 20% off grinders life cycle from seasoning. Never heard of something like that with any grinder out there. Depends on the burrs more than anything. DF54 and DF64 grinders, never had a single motor go bad that I can remember and we have sold a lot of them. So far very good motors. I have one that has ground probably thousands of lbs and hasn't had an issue.

Encore is good, its design is dated, and its a bit lousy to use. But its still a solid entry to grinding for Espresso. I've heard decent things about the DF64, but personally, at that stage, I'd get something from Fellow, looks a lot cleaner, something like the Fellow Opus.

Its cooler looking :) But that aside, its more of a cost thing. The opus is a lot cheaper, and grinds above its price class. Being cheaper means, you feel less bad about modding it. The DF64 has its own set of issues, like retention, static etc. While both of them are really good options, I've always had a thing for how Fellow designs their stuff, everything from their mugs, to their kettles, to their grinders are designed beautifully, and I've a softspot for that. Edit : Also would like to add, one of the things I like to focus on is the user experience, for example a Niche, or a Fellow Ode is a pleasure to use, even if the results are not as precise as the DF64, because making coffee is meant to be as good of an experience as consuming coffee. That's why the review also, we all know that a C2 will give you the absolute best results in terms of price to grind quality ratio, but a cheap electric grinder can make the experience a lot more pleasurable, And that's something I take into account.

The df54 is half the price... I have a 64 and my friend is seriously considering the 54.

most of them can. comically df64v is not the best for it and regular df64 would be much better.

That is actually amazing. My DF64 is not easy to clean and I probably won't pull the trigger on a premium electric grinder for a couple years; however, I'm very interested in the long term ownership experience of these nicer grinders. Compared to an entry level electric grinder, are there any quirks you like or dislike about it?

a hand grinder will make great coffee at a lower price if you’re interested, can’t beat the kingrinder P1/2 for like 30$ if you’ve never ground your own beans. moving up the K6 can be found for ~100$. after that you probably wanna look at 1zpresso lineup. electric grinder you could get a baratza encore for a true budget option, then the df54 for the most bang for your buck. after that you’ll see diminishing returns and prices really increase, the rabbit hole is deep, but start small.

yeah the encore esp would be good because it would also be an upgrade over your sage built in grinder, so you could use it for espresso too. i’m not sure if they sell it with the single dose hopper and dosing cup, but you would definitely want to weigh and single dose your beans if you’re looking to improve your espresso and get consistent results with the aeropress. i suggested a hand grinder in my other comments but if you want a grinder to also upgrade your sage built in grinder then i would go electric and do the baratza encore esp or spend more for a df54.

I have been using my DF64 for cold brew and espresso.

I have been getting good results so far. I have only had the grinder for a couple of months. The grind could be a little more course for cold brew but I do not get much sediment though the filter. I’ll take a photo of the next brew so you can check it out. For espresso the grinder is killer and the flavor of the bean really shines.

https://preview.redd.it/2neson1bodqd1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ccb43b2924413b3c632b429d93e461d603ec9c0 48sec to grind 130g. I fumbled around a little and wasn’t trying to rush, just curious how long it would take. I feel I save a ton of time compared to making cold brew with a blade grinder.

+1 Can't recommend DFs anymore, given their QA issues. They are great when they work, but manufacturing is still hit-or-miss IME (though steadily improving).

had a few friends buy DFs; at least the 64 and 83 had cross thread dial adjustments on a couple of them. the carrier alignment issue was pretty concerning too -- seems like there's some thermal expansion issues that would move things around in a transient kinda way, which is horrifying to debug

If you use the bellows there is almost no retention

I have both the ZP6 and the K Ultra, while there is difference between them, it’s not as significant as comments in this sub make it to be. The ZP6 will not nuke the body of your beverage away, nor will the K Ultra be an unclear mess when compared to the ZP6. I honestly feel like both these grinders can produce very similar cups, but the difference might be once you’re trying very hard to optimize a specific bean, which most of the time isn’t the case for daily brews since it would take way more coffee than most bags have, unless you’re the chosen one, the master dialer (which I’m not btw). In the end, since you already have an electric grinder for espresso, I don’t feel like the versatility of the K Ultra is that much of a plus, which would make me lean towards buying the ZP6, especially since it’s cheaper as well. Can’t say much about the Pietro btw, never tried it, only thing I know is that it uses flat burrs which might yield a different profile to the conical ones. Is it significant (or desireable) enough to justify the price? No clue, depends on the person, but one thing is for sure, if practicality and mobility is a factor for you, the pietro might not be the best idea since it’s a table top grinder.

100% of people will say breville. cheapest grinder would be baratza encore esp. but id spend more and get a grinder you won't have to upgrade again, ie a df64. grinder is the most important part of good espresso.

I'd personally get a filter-only grinder. Wait for a sale, grab an Ode Gen 2, and buy an espresso grinder when the time comes (DF54 is insane value). The best grinders for double duty are medium-high clarity conical grinders like Comandante, K-Ultra etc IMO. The Femobook A5 and Lagom Casa are a couple electric grinders that are in the same category (I haven't tried either, but they're well reviewed). I previously used a Lagom Mini for both filter and espresso and it was fantastic. The DF54 and 64 both do a decent job at filter, but it's not great. The 64 mm SSP MP burrs are often recommended as a do-it-all burr set, but they are for a very specific espresso profile and they are not beginner friendly for espresso. I didn't enjoy the espresso with them. SSP Cast are supposed to be decent for both, but you're giving up the clarity everyone is always seeking. A couple other decent options that I've tried are Ditting 54mm steel burrs in the Vario+ and Eureka's 50 mm brew burrs in an entry level mignon. The UX is not ideal with either of these setups compared to a grinder designed to single dose. If the Ditting burrs fit in the DF without crazy mods it would be a great option. Edit: I forgot to mention that there are now brew burrs available for the DF54. I'm planning to grab a set to try out once they're available in Canada.

If you’re comfortable tinkering (or dare I say excited about tinkering) the DF64 is a no brainer.

"but, I do understand your point on the VS6 if I am not purchasing SSP's later on" You should check Varia's website since only their proprietary burrs work. "Can I ask how much you favor the 54 than the 64 gen 2 or varia vs3 gen 2?" The flavor difference between df54 and df64 is minimal, but more of a speed upgrade as well as convenience. The DF54 is still in it's infancy and has some quircks on it's own, one being that it requires much more regular cleaning for it not to clog. With the DF64 you still get the option to change the burrs later on, although I enjoy the DF64V more since the variable RPM makes a difference in shot quality and it can also be dialed to the minimum for high clarity filter. Varia VS3 is a grinder I'm not familiar with, nor I can recommend it as a learning curve towards upgrading to the VS6 later on. Each grinder is different. That being said, it's a conical and I don't particularly prefer conicals. I'd rather get a hand grinder that's twice as cheap and will never fail. The DF54 is by far the best bang for your buck, but if you can stretch to a DF64 it would be great.

Df64 is pretty good. you can do espresso and filter

Love this video and the £500 one. As someone who's been grinding manually for espresso for close to three years, I've definitely reached the point where I'm prepared to make my life a little easier. I wonder if I can be cheeky, James (or anyone else kind enough to answer), why would I choose to go for the DF64 over the DF54?

DF64 - many burr options for upgrades, faster grind time, metal dosing cup that has less static issues, larger chute so its less likely to be blocked.. i dont know what else. DF54 is smaller and cheaper which is a bonus for me!

I mean, not true at all. You can get really decent espresso with a Breville Bambino ($300usd) and something like a smart grinder pro ($200usd) or a df64 ($400usd) and that will be enough for MOST people. Hell, even a sub $100 hand grinder and the Bambino will get someone by. Nobody has to spend over $1000.

\> I would prefer a single dose as I use 3 types of coffee beans I use here and there. Agreed, go with a single-dosing grinder. \> I am thinking of getting the DF54 My strong recommendation is to get one via a retailer who can support you if there are issues and not direct. My own experience of buying directly from Turin is woeful; their customer service was non-existent. If you buy from an in-country retailer, they are responsible for sorting any issues. \> Would you recommend a DF64 instead or try and get a DF54? I had a v1 DF64 previously - IMO, it is probably the best value grinder on the market today, given its price and its ability to have different burrs. Given you say you don't mind loud noise (and it is, IMO a very loud grinder), this seems like a good option for you (but buy via an in-country retailer). \> Off topic, but it seems like the DF series is way more favoured than the Niche. I am not so sure. There is a lot of talk and recommendations for them, but when you see pics of people's setups, there are an awful lot of niche zeros out there (inc. with me - I have one alongside an Option-O P64 and some hand-grinders). The Zero is not favored so strongly as the flat grinders for pour-over, it tends to get used primarily for espresso, which IMO is is very good for. Plus, has the best workflow and sound (quietness) of any grinder I have used. \> On another note, I am thinking of getting a Lagom Casa A superbly well-built and capable grinder. Option-O are legendary in the business.

The difference is the burr size and the modability, I guess. So, you could swap out different burr sets on the 64, but maybe not on the 54 because I don't think there are a lot on the market. So, if you want to swap out your burrs for different styles, I'd go for the DF64. If you're gonna stick to one thing, I'd go for the DF54

Find a used df64, I recently sold mine for just that amount.

It has about twice less power and small chute makes you clean it more often. Plus, you pretty much stuck with default 54 mm burrs with no options to upgrade. When you can get DF64 for just 100€ more - it is a questionable choice.

1. It is not about time. It can stale. 2. No, it is not. 3. Stock burrs on 64 are even better, but you want have an options. 4. On well known web site which claims that they deal with EU and US taxes it is~100 EUR.

I think the single unit that I'd be looking at if I was willing to spend more more than $250 US is the DF64. It is a bit bigger than even the Fellow Opus but still not huge and has some advantages over the DF54. That said, if you have a bit more to spend, it might be worthwhile to do as others have said and have a manual grinder for pour over and a separate electric grinder for espresso. There are some engineering challenges with devising a multi-purpose machine. Even ignoring those, there are some kinda unavoidable issues involving retention when you make a big change in grind size, and if you do it all the time then those issues can really pile up.

Of course you can :D It's mostly swiching between grind settings thats a pain, and on a lot of grinders going between coarse and fine the setting don't always mach excatly when going back and forth - especially in the espresso range. You could absolutely get an electric grinder now, but I also reccomend getting a seperate grinder, when you get an espresso setup. Depending if you get the df64, a new grinder could be for pour over or espresso: I've heard that the df64 is a good all-rounder, so you could get zp6 or similar for pour over and use the df64 for espresso or you could keep that for pour over and get something espresso-forward for the new machine.

I had it for a few months to try it out and had the same issue. I purchased from Nordstrom who has a really good return policy… I returned it. I couldn’t take it. I bought the DF64 and am very happy. No issues, miles better in terms of quality, and looks arguably better than other grinders in that price range.

Depends if you prefer single dosing or grind on demand. For single dosing it's hard to beat a DF54 or DF64. If you don't want to weigh out every time and don't switch beans/brew styles often, you can get a Eureka Mignon Specialita from espressocoffeeshop.com for about $450US shipped. I just did the latter and it's really improved my mornings

I got rid of that machine and got a DF54, then upgraded that to DF64. It’s wild that the Opus does not even meet the standards of a Fellow product to me.

whats wrong with the df64?

Thanks! For your first point, damn i did notice that sometimes but i always thought it was just due to the aging of the beans. Like I've noticed the same beans would require a finer setting the older it gets. But for your second point i never had a chance to do any comparison since i've never had a grinder specifically for filter. Do you have any recommendations for a budget hand grinder i could try so i could compare it with the df64?

Yeah - i just thought it was related to that but didnt know it could have actually been the grinder. Thanks for telling me. For the hand grinder, hopefully less than like 80 bucks? is the Q air any good for that budget?