DF64E

I had a DF64E. It was able to grind but the consistency was really difficult for me to deal with, especially since I usually brew two different beans every day.

What you making? Just regular coffee krupps or something off Amazon should hold up for 10+ years. Getting into espresso that’s different. D64 or D54 with burrs installed for espresso and aligned. Do not do espresso on the same grinder as regular coffee.

I use a D64. I wanted a flat burr grinder and wanted it to be single dose. They have lifetime burrs, and it seems solid enough but not quite commercial grade and hence, sub $1k. Had it about a year and so far so good.

I have this setup except I have a D64. My D64 is great and cost me like $399? I’m not sure what price in Europe this would be? I recently upgraded my grinder from a Breville smart iq grinder and my machine from a Breville so I went from that to Lelit and D64 - I’m not just starting out so I guess that’s worth noting.

I have and Encore and a D64. I started with the Encore and upgraded and just at kept the Encore. I also have hand grinder for times when I want to make coffee at and odd hour and need to be quiet. I use the D64 as the primary espresso grinder. Once it’s dialed in for whatever coffee I have in rotation I don’t like to change it. I don’t like having to waste coffee purging it so I just don’t. Instead, if I want a decaf espresso or an aero press I will use the Encore.

For the budget grinder, shardor/mokkom/GF64.  I prefer Mokkom since it’s updated version of shardor. 

So the issue isn’t so much that the Encore ESP is “worth it” but more the good reliable options are limited at that price point. The Fellow Opus is …. Not good So then the only “trusted brand name” grinder would probably be the Varia VS3. Then there are all the Chinese grinder options, but at this price point, you’re still looking at grinders that are considered “value” rather than quality among those. DF54 is the popular entry level option there for a flat burr grinder. Starseeker also has the E55 for a good conical burr option. Then there’s the ultra value sub $200 USD (sub 1000RMB in China) 64mm flat burr grinders like the GF64, the Shardor 64, and the Mokkom 64. They work well enough, but I think the problem with them is the temptation to upgrade because they just feel cheap. Remember, these are grinders that are considered cheap in the Chinese domestic market as well.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

At that budget? maybe DF83V with some SSP burrs. A 078S with SSP burrs could be an option too but if you like playing around with swapping burrs, I’d wait for the 2nd Gen 078S later this year for the easier and likely more idiot-proof tool-less grind chamber access. Kind of funny to see you mention DF64 and build quality in the same sentence, and then also say mixed reviews on the Timemores. If you’re going to get a DF 64mm grinder, get the CF64V or the DF64V gen3, not the DF64 unless you are just looking for cheap. But if you’re looking for cheap Chinese 64mm, you might as well get the Mokkom 64 and still skip the DF64. Philos is over budget Mahlkonig X64 SD is over complicated in all the wrong ways in terms of how it’s engineered. But you do get the German brand at least. Eureka has retention issues on top of the proprietary burr size, but it’s made in Italy so that could be a plus for people that are really biased against Chinese manufacturing

What’s your budget? The common “entry level” recommendation is a Bambino or Bambino Plus, paired with an Baratza Encore ESP grinder or DF54 grinder. Infuser or Duo Temp Pro are also good alternatives to the Bambinos if you want something a bit more classic, more sturdy, but less modern tech. The next mid tier to end game ish recommendation would be a Breville Dual Boiler, paired with any number of higher end grinders. There are way more expensive espresso machines out there but you’re pretty much hitting diminishing returns after the Breville Dual Boiler. The coffee grinder is really going to be more important than the espresso machine. For a mid tier easy to use grinder, Niche Zero is a great option. It’s easy to use and easy to dial in different beans, with minimal prep and cleanup due to the no faff low retention design. But a lot of the espresso ~~snobs~~ connoisseurs are going to want something with a more targeted grind that requires more work to dial in and needs to be dialed in differently for different beans but is targeted and can extract the unique flavors of different beans and roasts more clearly rather than just having a good but blended tasting espresso. For those type of grinders, 64mm (or larger) flat burrs are a popular option, with the DF64 being a nice cheaper entry level Chinese grinder, Timemore Sculptor (either 64mm or 78mm) being a good mid tier option, and something like the Mazzer Philos or Zerno Z1 being more expensive options. And then people start messing with swapping out different burrs for different flavor profiles and different beans and it starts becoming an addiction and you fall down the rabbit hole and find yourself spending every waking hour thinking about coffee.