DF64V Gen 2

I will tell you that numbers other people are running are not really relevant to your situation. Other than a basic starting point. Every Grinder has it's own personality. I am running a DF64v V2 on My Espresso setup and a Breville Smart Grinder pro for my Drip Coffee. Neither of these run exact numbers everyone else is running. My DF runs way higher than everyone elses grind settings. If you chase everybody else's numbers you will waste a lot of time. Just work on getting the best shot you can using your numbers. Your numbers will also change the longer your grinder is used. The burrs are even seasoned/broke in until you run a ton of coffee through it. And I mean a TON! Burr shape, Size, speed, all that jazz are just trivialities to worry about when you learn to make espresso better. The fact is most people can't tell the difference when they first start out. btw. My df64v v2 consistently runs about 22 on my dial for my espresso shots. Most others run much lower. Until I quit chasing the 9-10 I was struggling. Now I just make good coffee and adjust the dial in tiny increments to adjust for coffee varieties.

I had the same wish, went for a Pietro with Pro Brew Burrs and wanted something that did not cause that much pain in the workflow. I got a DF64V Gen2 and SSP Burrs. This setup is a bit messy, workflow is okayish (annoying dancing last bean in the DF64V). But for the price i am happy. Sometimes I wish my Niche workflow would be back.

> but it seems you get what you pay for with these And what do you mean by that (vs everything else on your list that are also made in China selling at the same price point)? Btw, I hear people saying the DF64V gen2 now is actually the gen3 just named wrongly in international markets. Hard to know what these distributors are doing with names but the gen3 should be the first one with the flickable declumper flap as the most obvious visual difference

No I’m genuinely curious if you’ve heard something specific. I very much agree with the general sentiment that “you get what you paid for” but what you are paying for may not always be stuff a user cares about, like branding, manufacturing labor costs, middle man distribution, import costs, and low volume production. Like the motor in the DF64V gen3 is on paper better than even something like the Zerno Z1. Obviously the Zerno is a better grinder but what you are paying for there isn’t the motor.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

So the issue isn’t so much that the Encore ESP is “worth it” but more the good reliable options are limited at that price point. The Fellow Opus is …. Not good So then the only “trusted brand name” grinder would probably be the Varia VS3. Then there are all the Chinese grinder options, but at this price point, you’re still looking at grinders that are considered “value” rather than quality among those. DF54 is the popular entry level option there for a flat burr grinder. Starseeker also has the E55 for a good conical burr option. Then there’s the ultra value sub $200 USD (sub 1000RMB in China) 64mm flat burr grinders like the GF64, the Shardor 64, and the Mokkom 64. They work well enough, but I think the problem with them is the temptation to upgrade because they just feel cheap. Remember, these are grinders that are considered cheap in the Chinese domestic market as well.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

At that budget? maybe DF83V with some SSP burrs. A 078S with SSP burrs could be an option too but if you like playing around with swapping burrs, I’d wait for the 2nd Gen 078S later this year for the easier and likely more idiot-proof tool-less grind chamber access. Kind of funny to see you mention DF64 and build quality in the same sentence, and then also say mixed reviews on the Timemores. If you’re going to get a DF 64mm grinder, get the CF64V or the DF64V gen3, not the DF64 unless you are just looking for cheap. But if you’re looking for cheap Chinese 64mm, you might as well get the Mokkom 64 and still skip the DF64. Philos is over budget Mahlkonig X64 SD is over complicated in all the wrong ways in terms of how it’s engineered. But you do get the German brand at least. Eureka has retention issues on top of the proprietary burr size, but it’s made in Italy so that could be a plus for people that are really biased against Chinese manufacturing

What’s your budget? The common “entry level” recommendation is a Bambino or Bambino Plus, paired with an Baratza Encore ESP grinder or DF54 grinder. Infuser or Duo Temp Pro are also good alternatives to the Bambinos if you want something a bit more classic, more sturdy, but less modern tech. The next mid tier to end game ish recommendation would be a Breville Dual Boiler, paired with any number of higher end grinders. There are way more expensive espresso machines out there but you’re pretty much hitting diminishing returns after the Breville Dual Boiler. The coffee grinder is really going to be more important than the espresso machine. For a mid tier easy to use grinder, Niche Zero is a great option. It’s easy to use and easy to dial in different beans, with minimal prep and cleanup due to the no faff low retention design. But a lot of the espresso ~~snobs~~ connoisseurs are going to want something with a more targeted grind that requires more work to dial in and needs to be dialed in differently for different beans but is targeted and can extract the unique flavors of different beans and roasts more clearly rather than just having a good but blended tasting espresso. For those type of grinders, 64mm (or larger) flat burrs are a popular option, with the DF64 being a nice cheaper entry level Chinese grinder, Timemore Sculptor (either 64mm or 78mm) being a good mid tier option, and something like the Mazzer Philos or Zerno Z1 being more expensive options. And then people start messing with swapping out different burrs for different flavor profiles and different beans and it starts becoming an addiction and you fall down the rabbit hole and find yourself spending every waking hour thinking about coffee.

The DF64v2.5 is the most consistent and easiest to dial in. DF54 works too, Timemore grinders are okay but less precise. Pair with a bottomless portafilter and simple tamp station.

This is my exact setup. A ZP6 for pourover and a DF64V with SSP HU burrs. It works well.

I've not long bought a Sage Dual Boiler, paired with a DF64V and it's absolutely brilliant. For me the main selling point was the heat up time which is around 10 mins from cold to the group and portafilter fully heated. If you're in a rush then it's about 6 mins to get a warm group, hot water and steam. Had the grinder 2 years and the DB around a month, no regrets so far.

For hand grinders, go to rogue wave and get a zp6. For automatic grinders in that price range, youre almost stuck with the Ode and I really hate the Ode for a multitude of reasons, one is the auger is so badly warped from factory that you need to machine it flat. The machine shaft spins out of round (has a ton of runout) so you'll get plenty of misalignment from burrs there as well. And then you're also stuck with the stupid high RPMs it has. Imo the best cheapest 64mm electric burr grinder on the planet is the df64v. It's been A LONG time since I looked at them but they used to be around $400-450 USD, but being that you can buy directly from China, you may be able to get it for way cheaper than 600 CAD even after duties. Yes it's obviously more expensive than the Ode, but the quality is infinitely better than the Ode. It's kinda ugly and I don't love the upright/angled grinders, including my Monolith Max that's like $3200, but the DF64V has so much more bang for your buck than the Ode and you don't ever have to align the burrs in the df64v where you absolutely must align them every time on the ode and it's just a bad situation. Outside of 64mm burrs, there are some nice 48-58mm burrs iirc, but I have zero experience with them and honestly never paid much attention to them.