DF64V V3

I have a df64v at the moment, I’m waiting on the motto80 by bookoo to get in people hands and see some reviews but if its as good as the specs it’s a no brainer. Df64v gen 3 is probably one of the best options under $1000 at the moment it’s only $500-550. If my budget was higher and I were to spend over $1000, the lagon P80 and Zerno’s would be the only others to consider. -80mm blind burrs that should be easy to swap - Cost $800 less than any big name 80mm grinder out there -Much smaller than a lot of other grinders if the same caliber

I’d ask what kind of espresso you want! Flat burrs tend to be more clarity esp for light roasts. Conical burrs are best for darker roasts and creamy thick shots. Niche and DC63(budget choice) are great conical. I have the DF64v3 with SSP burrs. It’s great.

did you mean DF64V gen3, or DF64 ver3? :) its confusing to new people :) the base DF64 does not have a variable speed, thats just on the DF64V, which is far superior to the base DF64 (build quality, alignment, quiet BLDC motor etc), but also a bit more expensive (likely above the $300) and requires another min. $50 for brew burrs, if Jaffee burrs are used, also the $80 Ode2 burrs can be installed

on the DF64**V**, which is a better, more precise / higher quality build of the DF64, the stock burrs are also not that great for pour-over. But I like the workflow, and the grinder can work well with other burs - such as Ode2 burrs (they are sold separately), the SSP MP - alike burrs from AliEx (very inexpensive) or others (SSP originals, Lebrew, etc.) Ode Gen 2 is fine and a solid option (especially if you manage to get it for a good price), but the overall build is not that precise, and factory tolerances are more loose there

if you mean the Opus 2 (not the original Opus, gen 1), then the grinder is specifically built for light roast usage (as stated by its designer), as light roasts have more dense beans and are harder to grind, so the machine has strong enough gears (torque) to operate like that long-term and from comments here on reddit, it performs very well for the filter / V60 as well, in terms of taste profile... from what its designer said, it was also among their design goals, that the Opus 2 would perform well for filter, so its large conical burrs are tuned to do V60 well, by design so, my opinion is that the Opus 2 is a pretty safe bet the DF64 will not do very well with the V60, unless you change the stock burrs, and make sure the burr alignment is set well... which can be rather time-consuming and effort-intensive task. I have the DF64V (a more premium version of the DF64, with better tolerances and out-of-factory alignment), and know its stock burrs first-hand - since I do filter only, had to replace them

on the DF64**V**, which is a better, more precise / higher quality build of the DF64, the stock burrs are also not that great for pour-over. But I like the workflow, and the grinder can work well with other burs - such as Ode2 burrs (they are sold separately), the SSP MP - alike burrs from AliEx (very inexpensive) or others (SSP originals, Lebrew, etc.) Ode Gen 2 is fine and a solid option (especially if you manage to get it for a good price), but the overall build is not that precise, and factory tolerances are more loose there

if you mean the Opus 2 (not the original Opus, gen 1), then the grinder is specifically built for light roast usage (as stated by its designer), as light roasts have more dense beans and are harder to grind, so the machine has strong enough gears (torque) to operate like that long-term and from comments here on reddit, it performs very well for the filter / V60 as well, in terms of taste profile... from what its designer said, it was also among their design goals, that the Opus 2 would perform well for filter, so its large conical burrs are tuned to do V60 well, by design so, my opinion is that the Opus 2 is a pretty safe bet the DF64 will not do very well with the V60, unless you change the stock burrs, and make sure the burr alignment is set well... which can be rather time-consuming and effort-intensive task. I have the DF64V (a more premium version of the DF64, with better tolerances and out-of-factory alignment), and know its stock burrs first-hand - since I do filter only, had to replace them

I started with a K-Ultra, then went to a DF64v Gen 3 with LeBrew Filter burrs, and I feel that I get a much more consistent cup. To me, the DV64V with Lebrew was a huge upgrade over the K-Ultra.

If you have Niche Zero money, you can also look at the DF64V Gen3. Specifically **V** not the regular DF64, and specifically Gen3 for the new servo motor, flickable declumper flap, and external ionizer. As far as clogging DF54s, part of me feels like it is exacerbated by the number of units sold to complete beginners to coffee, rather than any “QC issue”. I can’t think of any manufacturing variance that changes things that much. The machines are also generally tested before shipping as far as I know, (they just clean them unlike something like the Philos so it’s not as obvious unless you take off the burrs and check the screw holes). In anycase, the DF64V won’t have that same problem. But you could always go with a Eureka if you don’t want to take the risk and just want a solid grinder. Less features, more retention, and proprietary burrs for the same price, but peace of mind has value too. The new Varia VS4 should also be a fun option with its variable RPM and more durable build than VS3.

At that budget? maybe DF83V with some SSP burrs. A 078S with SSP burrs could be an option too but if you like playing around with swapping burrs, I’d wait for the 2nd Gen 078S later this year for the easier and likely more idiot-proof tool-less grind chamber access. Kind of funny to see you mention DF64 and build quality in the same sentence, and then also say mixed reviews on the Timemores. If you’re going to get a DF 64mm grinder, get the CF64V or the DF64V gen3, not the DF64 unless you are just looking for cheap. But if you’re looking for cheap Chinese 64mm, you might as well get the Mokkom 64 and still skip the DF64. Philos is over budget Mahlkonig X64 SD is over complicated in all the wrong ways in terms of how it’s engineered. But you do get the German brand at least. Eureka has retention issues on top of the proprietary burr size, but it’s made in Italy so that could be a plus for people that are really biased against Chinese manufacturing

What kind of espresso do you like? If you’re into classic full bodied espresso and want easy to dial in with a forgiving margin for error, but everything ends up tasting kind of the similar, you’d want a good conical burr grinder like: - Niche Zero - Lagom Casa - maybe Varia VS4 or VS3 if your budget is lower If you want more clarity (but requiring more precise dial in) for drinking more single origin coffees or want the flexibility of swapping out different burrs for different grind profiles, you’d want to look at a 64mm flat burr grinder. Good options here are pretty much all Chinese grinders. - Timemore 064S - Gevi Grindmaster - [white labeled] CF64V - [white labeled] DF64V, gen3 specifically since it has a lot of good upgrades The Eureka Mignon grinders are also popular flat burr options but they use 55mm and 65mm burrs so you can’t really just throw third party burrs in there as easily. They’re good but don’t have the best retention. I see absolutely no reason to still be buying a regular old DF64, especially when the CF64V is only $400 USD (for now), much better specs across the board, and made by the same factory. People naturally have concerns about the long term after sales support of the white labeled Chinese 64mm grinders, but they do offer a lot of value and they sell well within China as well (under the brands Creyke and Ranccea). Timemore seems to be the only brand that’s really taken off internationally, but the price is inflated more as a result.

So generally speaking, I would say if you are unsure, but think you may want to explore the world of coffee and the various different beans and roasts out there, go with a 64mm flat burr. There are flat burrs that can produce similar profiles as conical burrs and a little bit of vice verse, but in general, flat burrs can produce lower fines if you want to focus on clarity of flavors for tasting and exploring different coffees. So if you just want a trusted brand in that category, get a Timemore 064S (or 078S if you want to go larger), or the Eureka Mignon grinder that fits your budget. The Mahlkonig X64 might also be in your budget range here. If you want higher specs and value for your money, then you’d want to look at the white labeled Chinese grinders like the DF64V gen3, CF64V, or maybe even the DF83V gen3 if you want bigger burrs and budget allows. The **V** part of all of these denotes variable RPM and also means they use a more reliable brushless motor. They are completely different products from the cheaper not-V models. You’ll also notice how these tend to have gen1 / gen2 / gen2.5 / gen3. That’s part of where they save on R&D costs by partially using the consumer as beta testers but also to iterate and make QoL updates to drive consumerism and upgraditis/fomo among existing owners. The designs should be well vetted now, but try to get the latest version. Both the DF64V and DF83V received fairly meaningful functional upgrades on the latest version.

> but it seems you get what you pay for with these And what do you mean by that (vs everything else on your list that are also made in China selling at the same price point)? Btw, I hear people saying the DF64V gen2 now is actually the gen3 just named wrongly in international markets. Hard to know what these distributors are doing with names but the gen3 should be the first one with the flickable declumper flap as the most obvious visual difference

No I’m genuinely curious if you’ve heard something specific. I very much agree with the general sentiment that “you get what you paid for” but what you are paying for may not always be stuff a user cares about, like branding, manufacturing labor costs, middle man distribution, import costs, and low volume production. Like the motor in the DF64V gen3 is on paper better than even something like the Zerno Z1. Obviously the Zerno is a better grinder but what you are paying for there isn’t the motor.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

It’s the only good option for an espresso grinder you have on the list. The Fellow Ode is a filter grinder and can’t grind fine enough stock, and still under powered for espresso even with SSP burrs. Fellow Opus is just…no OXO is not an espresso grinder Shardor 64 and Mokkom 64 are the two budget options but they’re currently about $10-20 higher than what you could get them at. The two other Chinese grinders are typically only bought even in China as part of a “free gift” as part of an espresso machine bundle. Ultra budget. The DF83V is a good grinder that some would even call end game. So obviously, there’s no comparison. But I’ll throw in one more option for you: CF64V. It’s essentially a $400 64mm little brother to the DF83V and you can even put SSP burrs in it if you want to spend extra, but the stock DLC burrs are certainly plenty solid.

Yeah it’s kind of the best value grinder on the market imo. Kind of also shows how grinder recommendations by people online are mostly based on individual biases since for roughly the same price, by the same manufacturer and distributors, the CF64V destroys the DF64 across the board by every metric, yet DF64 probably still gets mentioned more.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

At that budget? maybe DF83V with some SSP burrs. A 078S with SSP burrs could be an option too but if you like playing around with swapping burrs, I’d wait for the 2nd Gen 078S later this year for the easier and likely more idiot-proof tool-less grind chamber access. Kind of funny to see you mention DF64 and build quality in the same sentence, and then also say mixed reviews on the Timemores. If you’re going to get a DF 64mm grinder, get the CF64V or the DF64V gen3, not the DF64 unless you are just looking for cheap. But if you’re looking for cheap Chinese 64mm, you might as well get the Mokkom 64 and still skip the DF64. Philos is over budget Mahlkonig X64 SD is over complicated in all the wrong ways in terms of how it’s engineered. But you do get the German brand at least. Eureka has retention issues on top of the proprietary burr size, but it’s made in Italy so that could be a plus for people that are really biased against Chinese manufacturing

What’s your budget? The common “entry level” recommendation is a Bambino or Bambino Plus, paired with an Baratza Encore ESP grinder or DF54 grinder. Infuser or Duo Temp Pro are also good alternatives to the Bambinos if you want something a bit more classic, more sturdy, but less modern tech. The next mid tier to end game ish recommendation would be a Breville Dual Boiler, paired with any number of higher end grinders. There are way more expensive espresso machines out there but you’re pretty much hitting diminishing returns after the Breville Dual Boiler. The coffee grinder is really going to be more important than the espresso machine. For a mid tier easy to use grinder, Niche Zero is a great option. It’s easy to use and easy to dial in different beans, with minimal prep and cleanup due to the no faff low retention design. But a lot of the espresso ~~snobs~~ connoisseurs are going to want something with a more targeted grind that requires more work to dial in and needs to be dialed in differently for different beans but is targeted and can extract the unique flavors of different beans and roasts more clearly rather than just having a good but blended tasting espresso. For those type of grinders, 64mm (or larger) flat burrs are a popular option, with the DF64 being a nice cheaper entry level Chinese grinder, Timemore Sculptor (either 64mm or 78mm) being a good mid tier option, and something like the Mazzer Philos or Zerno Z1 being more expensive options. And then people start messing with swapping out different burrs for different flavor profiles and different beans and it starts becoming an addiction and you fall down the rabbit hole and find yourself spending every waking hour thinking about coffee.