Multiple Brands (Turin, MiiCoffee, DF etc) - DF64 Gen 2

OP sounds like they are still exploring. When I was in the same situation I went with a DF64 Gen 2 flat burr single dose grinder and upgraded to SSP Lab Sweet burrs. With a 64 mm or 83 mm flat burr grinder there's lots of different aftermarket burrs to experiment with clarity, transparency, body, etc.. For 3000 they could buy 3 grinders and multiple burrs! https://youtu.be/F_lPebBqVd4?feature=shared

This comment may get a lot of snickers, but I love my DF64G2 for everyday use but occasionally, I also like the taste of dark roasted oily beans. I don't want to grind these beans in the DF so I use a cheap $29 Cuisinart blade grinder for these nearly black beans. I have seen too many horror pics of how these beans can "gum" up your burrs, unless you're willing to break it down and thoroughly clean it after each use. I do a 35 second grind on the blade machine with a lot of pauses and shakes in between. Clean up is easy and the coffee tastes pretty good.

I have a Timemore C2, 1Zpresso K-MAX, DF64 gen 2 and for Christmas just got a Fellow Ode Gen 2. After hand grinding for 4 years; the Ode has been such a welcomed addition to my setup. I LOVE it. It's honestly such a joy to use. I use the DF64 strictly for espresso, I didn't want to faff around between espresso grind/filter grind and purging loads of beans each time. It can do filter quite nicely, but wasn't worth the faff when the KMax was giving me the results I wanted. The only real negative with the Ode is that if you're spritzing your beans, sometimes they can get stuck to the walls in the hopper. But I 3D printed a hopper with steeper walls and that's solved this. \*subjective\* As for taste, the Ode gen 2 is producing some of the cups I've ever had. A noticeable improvement in clarity and flavour separation in naturals. TL;DR - Ode Gen 2 still good - highly recommend.

Ode gives me cleaner, sweeter cups with better flavour separation and clarity. However the DF64 *can* be "brighter" and has put some "spark" into a few dull coffees, though it also brings a little astringency. The DF64 reminds me of a really good conical burr hand grinder. It gives me VERY similar results to my Kmax. Again though, these are just my findings and my personal opinion :)

I’ve had mine for a year as well. For filter coffee it’s good enough. Yes it holds so much ground coffee inside its insane. I’ve had to clean it a few times and ended up with enough ground coffee to pull an espresso with. I’ve started using it with espresso 3 weeks ago…. So glad the df64 gen 2 sits in its place since yesterday 😂. Will continue to use the opus for daily filter though.

Just a sample size of one, but I have a JX-Pro, ZP6, and DF64 Gen 2 with both DLC burrs and SSP Lab Sweet V3 burrs. The hand grinders are better IMO for everything except convenience and I almost always reach for them if I have time. Electric grinder only for convenience. If I were to rank them purely in terms of cup quality: 1. ZP6 for pourover and turbo shots, miles better than the rest 2. JX-Pro for espresso or some specific beans for pourover when I don't want high clarity 3. DF64 G2 with DLC burrs when I am in a hurry, or sometimes for specific beans/slightly more modern espresso taste profile. In general I still prefer the JX-Pro, though they're pretty close. My wife prefers these burrs to the JX-Pro though, but she mostly drinks milk drinks. 4. SSP Lab Sweets - worst for espresso. Good for pourover but the cup is muddy and I almost always still prefer the hand grinders.

Just a sample size of one, but I have a JX-Pro, ZP6, and DF64 Gen 2 with both DLC burrs and SSP Lab Sweet V3 burrs. The hand grinders are better IMO for everything except convenience and I almost always reach for them if I have time. Electric grinder only for convenience. If I were to rank them purely in terms of cup quality: 1. ZP6 for pourover and turbo shots, miles better than the rest 2. JX-Pro for espresso or some specific beans for pourover when I don't want high clarity 3. DF64 G2 with DLC burrs when I am in a hurry, or sometimes for specific beans/slightly more modern espresso taste profile. In general I still prefer the JX-Pro, though they're pretty close. My wife prefers these burrs to the JX-Pro though, but she mostly drinks milk drinks. 4. SSP Lab Sweets - worst for espresso. Good for pourover but the cup is muddy and I almost always still prefer the hand grinders.

The answer is absolutely yes, and the best recommendation will depend so much on what kind of beans you like, what kind of drinks you like, and your budget. But if it were me, these would be my top choices for a two-in-one (I do both pourover and espresso, but I lean towards pourover these days): If you're willing to hand grind, 1zpresso K-Ultra or Comandante would be outstanding. Kingrinder K6 on a budget. A lot of people find this tedious but it's actually my preferred method and I swear by my 1zpressos. You won't beat a hand grinder for price to quality, and you'll save space. For electric, Lagom Mini would be fantastic and space saving, or a Lagom Casa. Timemore 078s for a slightly higher budget. If you want to blow your budget, you've got TONS of options. Lagom P64, Zerno Z1, WPM ZP-1, Acaia Orbit, Lagom O1...we could go on. The DF grinders are an option I guess...Excellent bang for your buck but I personally do not like them or recommend them at all (I have a DF64 Gen 2 and...let's just say it's gonna be gone soon).

A lot, but for this specific post, two things: 1) If he switches from filter to espresso often (which I do), the grind setting will shift a little each time (ie if you go from 10 to 50 back to 10, the 10 won't behave like 10). This is because the rubber feet and flimsy wave spring that hold the upper burr are bad design with loose tolerances and too much room for inconsistency in the amount of tension they apply. The grinder works best if you lock the burr tightly in place to seat it, then adjust back and stay at or near the same setting. 2) I don't think it's a good filter grinder. I got it as an upgrade (with DLC and SSP Lab Sweet v3 burrs) and it's just strictly worse than my hand grinders for filter.

Yeah the DF54 and DF64 are espresso grinders first and foremost. My hand grinders smoke my DF64 Gen 2 for filter.

If you don't mind manually grinding, **Kingrinder K6** or **Timemore C3**, both can grind for pourover/filter and espresso fine. They're the best value for money, considering you won't need to replace them at all in the next 5 years as opposed to grinders in the ₱1k range you would probably need to replace in the next 3 months. If you want auto, DF54 or DF64. If you can afford it then go straight to DF64 because its stock burrs work better for both pourover+esp compared to DF54 which you may have to replace with aftermarket burrs to work with pourover. Also you need to slow feed. Overall I recommend Kingrinder K6, best value more than Timemore because you can adjust the setting outside—amazing quality of life feature.

SD40 pasok sa budget mo. If kaya mo magsave pa ng onti, DF64 Gen 2 because you can switch to SSP burrs in the future na gusto mo magtry ng "modern" espresso (brighter, higher clarity)

The Encore is a good grinder at its price point, but the K6 may even be better. I enjoyed grinding by hand for a long time and still do when traveling, but the grind quality of my Philos is just too good ;) My advice is to spend once as much as you can, not to go easy now and upgrade soonish. E.g. when going electric maybe go for the DF54 or (second hand) DF64g2, if you can afford it. When going for hand operated and you enjoy light roast, the 1zpresso ZP6 can’t be beaten (for med-dark K6 is great, especially for its price).

I have a DF64ii, a Philos, a Gevi, and an Ode 2 for electric grinders. I've brought the DF64ii into work. At home, for pourovers, I almost always use the ZP6 hand grinder.

I love my ZP6. I also have a DF64ii, a Gevi, and an Ode 2. I rarely do batches as large as you do, but I usually gravitate to the ZP6. But the DF64ii is solid. I'm setting up a coffee station at work, and it'll be my go-to work grinder. My Gevi works really well when I use my v60 or Origami, but I still use the ZP6. I don't use my Ode very often.

df64 gen2 . i have the same set up :). you'll love it. i got mine with ssp hu burrs. dm if you wanna chat

gen2 is more expresso forward rather and the 64v. something to keep in mind

I second this. it's a very solid flat burr grinder with a lot of range from filter coffee to espresso. Build quality is fantastic, but it is a single dose grinder, so if you are looking for something with a hopper that can grind through larger amounts, then Baratza Encore ESP is a good introductory grinder with espresso range

Had a Turin DF-64 with SSP burrs, which I loved, but it was damaged in a terrible Vermont flood this summer. It was loud before, but after repairing, it made an even more hideous noise, but still seemed to grind ok. During the four months of being displaced from our home, I became accustomed to using a Timemore C-2 Max that I had purchased mainly for traveling. When we finally rented a new apartment (with neighbors), she scowled at me and said "you're not gonna use that thing, are you?" I was like, "ok sure, but I'm upgrading and getting a K-ultra!" First thing every morning I now make three pourovers with the K-Ultra grinder and Hario V-60 01 drippers. It's definitely more tedious, but I enjoy the morning ritual, and there's been no trouble with disturbing new neighbors at 6 AM either. As others have mentioned on here, I can also feel the texture differences in the beans, where lighter roasts are more of a crunchy workout, and the dark roasts feel smooth and easy. Cheers!

I've had mine for \~ 2 months now, my first flat burr grinder and my first "quality" home espresso setup (GCP Evo Pro). I've been very happy with it, but so far I've only been grinding medium roast espresso. No clogs and only intermittent mild static issues. I do clean it about once a week and most of the time I do RDT. In one of the first times I really noticed static, all of the grounds were sticking to the side of the chute. I cleaned it and haven't experienced this big of an issue with static since. I personally think that all grinders must experience static at times dependent on the environment?! Regarding retention, I was measuring weight after grinding and it was typically .1 gram, sometimes .2grams. Isn't that pretty good? Regarding zero point, I know my actual is like -4. Yea, a little annoying but I just do the "math" if I'm looking at what others are using for a certain roast if they have there zero point dialed, but it all varies a bit anyways. I saw the USA distributor has a vid where they take off the sticker and re-position it. Mine is off by so little I didn't bother and I'm not really going by others and their settings so pointless to me. I almost bought a DF64 gen 2 but it seems I see many complaints on the 'net about that model as well so what to believe?! Maybe when I Gaggiuino my machine I'll upgrade the grinder, but so far, it's been a great purchase and I'm quite happy.

I am one of those people who went down the rabbit hole and got a Lagom P64 + unimodal v1 burrs. I will first say that it is amazing — the build, team support, everything. Could I get something close to that much cheaper? Probably. My brother has the DF64 with unimodal burrs and, while the polish is not there, it can probably do close to what my Lagom does. As long as you pick a grinder that 1) is generally reliable, 2) has okay customer support, and 3) lets you swap out burrs, that is pretty great! I've had many cafe filter brews from the Ode that impressed me. Your main limitation will probably be grind adjustment — depending on how "unimodally" your burrs are, 5-10 microns makes a huuuge difference because the sweet spot window is much narrower. Soooo Ode is great, but at that price point you should also consider DF64!

This will be an interesting answer, I've literally just had a DF64 G2 delivered. I got the SSP cast burrs. I think the Intamills have a more espresso profile with more body and less clarity

Italmill, Intamin, sorry I can't remember the brand name. It's the Italian burr manufacturer who supplies the stock DF64. I definitely think they're intended for espresso. (I think Intamin is an engineering firm that makes rollercoasters...) So far I've made one filter with the grinder and I'm very happy. It's not regrinding anything so there are no ultrafines, which fixes the problem my last grinder had!

You should go for DF64 gen 2. That’s the entry point of authentic electric grinder. All are waste under the range if you want perfection. And if you can’t bring up the budget then atleast go for baratza encore esp. Also you can buy manual grinder like Hario (Perfection in your budget).

I have the SSP MP’s in a df64 Gen 2 and do espresso. Hmu w questions

For roast level, my top two roasters are H&S and Hydrangea. H&S can get pretty light and I’ve had no problems with them. For espresso, I’m usually in the 4-9 range from burr chirp. I also get some local medium/light roast coffees for milk drinks and it still works great. I wouldn’t say they are sensitive to dailing in, but the range is very small. I’d say 80% of my beans fall within grind size 4-5.5. I do some v60, but not enough to tell ya if it’s good or not. I think my pourover palate just sucks lol

+1 Can't recommend DFs anymore, given their QA issues. They are great when they work, but manufacturing is still hit-or-miss IME (though steadily improving).

had a few friends buy DFs; at least the 64 and 83 had cross thread dial adjustments on a couple of them. the carrier alignment issue was pretty concerning too -- seems like there's some thermal expansion issues that would move things around in a transient kinda way, which is horrifying to debug

Don’t skimp on the grinder, either df54 or df64. Marami nagsasabi parehas flavor profile nila. Major difference is yung speed. Then yung natitira is for your machine and accessories.

For espresso, konti nlng DF64 na. Otherwise you can try DF54.

That is actually amazing. My DF64 is not easy to clean and I probably won't pull the trigger on a premium electric grinder for a couple years; however, I'm very interested in the long term ownership experience of these nicer grinders. Compared to an entry level electric grinder, are there any quirks you like or dislike about it?

DF64 - many burr options for upgrades, faster grind time, metal dosing cup that has less static issues, larger chute so its less likely to be blocked.. i dont know what else. DF54 is smaller and cheaper which is a bonus for me!

"but, I do understand your point on the VS6 if I am not purchasing SSP's later on" You should check Varia's website since only their proprietary burrs work. "Can I ask how much you favor the 54 than the 64 gen 2 or varia vs3 gen 2?" The flavor difference between df54 and df64 is minimal, but more of a speed upgrade as well as convenience. The DF54 is still in it's infancy and has some quircks on it's own, one being that it requires much more regular cleaning for it not to clog. With the DF64 you still get the option to change the burrs later on, although I enjoy the DF64V more since the variable RPM makes a difference in shot quality and it can also be dialed to the minimum for high clarity filter. Varia VS3 is a grinder I'm not familiar with, nor I can recommend it as a learning curve towards upgrading to the VS6 later on. Each grinder is different. That being said, it's a conical and I don't particularly prefer conicals. I'd rather get a hand grinder that's twice as cheap and will never fail. The DF54 is by far the best bang for your buck, but if you can stretch to a DF64 it would be great.

I use my DF64 for espresso, French press and pour over with good results.

100% of people will say breville. cheapest grinder would be baratza encore esp. but id spend more and get a grinder you won't have to upgrade again, ie a df64. grinder is the most important part of good espresso.

Of course you can :D It's mostly swiching between grind settings thats a pain, and on a lot of grinders going between coarse and fine the setting don't always mach excatly when going back and forth - especially in the espresso range. You could absolutely get an electric grinder now, but I also reccomend getting a seperate grinder, when you get an espresso setup. Depending if you get the df64, a new grinder could be for pour over or espresso: I've heard that the df64 is a good all-rounder, so you could get zp6 or similar for pour over and use the df64 for espresso or you could keep that for pour over and get something espresso-forward for the new machine.

I'd personally get a filter-only grinder. Wait for a sale, grab an Ode Gen 2, and buy an espresso grinder when the time comes (DF54 is insane value). The best grinders for double duty are medium-high clarity conical grinders like Comandante, K-Ultra etc IMO. The Femobook A5 and Lagom Casa are a couple electric grinders that are in the same category (I haven't tried either, but they're well reviewed). I previously used a Lagom Mini for both filter and espresso and it was fantastic. The DF54 and 64 both do a decent job at filter, but it's not great. The 64 mm SSP MP burrs are often recommended as a do-it-all burr set, but they are for a very specific espresso profile and they are not beginner friendly for espresso. I didn't enjoy the espresso with them. SSP Cast are supposed to be decent for both, but you're giving up the clarity everyone is always seeking. A couple other decent options that I've tried are Ditting 54mm steel burrs in the Vario+ and Eureka's 50 mm brew burrs in an entry level mignon. The UX is not ideal with either of these setups compared to a grinder designed to single dose. If the Ditting burrs fit in the DF without crazy mods it would be a great option. Edit: I forgot to mention that there are now brew burrs available for the DF54. I'm planning to grab a set to try out once they're available in Canada.

Find a used df64, I recently sold mine for just that amount.

\> I would prefer a single dose as I use 3 types of coffee beans I use here and there. Agreed, go with a single-dosing grinder. \> I am thinking of getting the DF54 My strong recommendation is to get one via a retailer who can support you if there are issues and not direct. My own experience of buying directly from Turin is woeful; their customer service was non-existent. If you buy from an in-country retailer, they are responsible for sorting any issues. \> Would you recommend a DF64 instead or try and get a DF54? I had a v1 DF64 previously - IMO, it is probably the best value grinder on the market today, given its price and its ability to have different burrs. Given you say you don't mind loud noise (and it is, IMO a very loud grinder), this seems like a good option for you (but buy via an in-country retailer). \> Off topic, but it seems like the DF series is way more favoured than the Niche. I am not so sure. There is a lot of talk and recommendations for them, but when you see pics of people's setups, there are an awful lot of niche zeros out there (inc. with me - I have one alongside an Option-O P64 and some hand-grinders). The Zero is not favored so strongly as the flat grinders for pour-over, it tends to get used primarily for espresso, which IMO is is very good for. Plus, has the best workflow and sound (quietness) of any grinder I have used. \> On another note, I am thinking of getting a Lagom Casa A superbly well-built and capable grinder. Option-O are legendary in the business.

Df64 is pretty good. you can do espresso and filter

a hand grinder will make great coffee at a lower price if you’re interested, can’t beat the kingrinder P1/2 for like 30$ if you’ve never ground your own beans. moving up the K6 can be found for ~100$. after that you probably wanna look at 1zpresso lineup. electric grinder you could get a baratza encore for a true budget option, then the df54 for the most bang for your buck. after that you’ll see diminishing returns and prices really increase, the rabbit hole is deep, but start small.

yeah the encore esp would be good because it would also be an upgrade over your sage built in grinder, so you could use it for espresso too. i’m not sure if they sell it with the single dose hopper and dosing cup, but you would definitely want to weigh and single dose your beans if you’re looking to improve your espresso and get consistent results with the aeropress. i suggested a hand grinder in my other comments but if you want a grinder to also upgrade your sage built in grinder then i would go electric and do the baratza encore esp or spend more for a df54.

I mean, not true at all. You can get really decent espresso with a Breville Bambino ($300usd) and something like a smart grinder pro ($200usd) or a df64 ($400usd) and that will be enough for MOST people. Hell, even a sub $100 hand grinder and the Bambino will get someone by. Nobody has to spend over $1000.

I got rid of that machine and got a DF54, then upgraded that to DF64. It’s wild that the Opus does not even meet the standards of a Fellow product to me.

The DF64 is loud but the DF54 is pretty quiet and tastes the same. X54 isn't a single doser so you have to decide if you want a hopper or not.

Get an electric grinder for espresso 100 % DF54 or Df64 are absolutely fantastic for the money

Love this video and the £500 one. As someone who's been grinding manually for espresso for close to three years, I've definitely reached the point where I'm prepared to make my life a little easier. I wonder if I can be cheeky, James (or anyone else kind enough to answer), why would I choose to go for the DF64 over the DF54?

whats wrong with the df64?

Thanks! For your first point, damn i did notice that sometimes but i always thought it was just due to the aging of the beans. Like I've noticed the same beans would require a finer setting the older it gets. But for your second point i never had a chance to do any comparison since i've never had a grinder specifically for filter. Do you have any recommendations for a budget hand grinder i could try so i could compare it with the df64?

Yeah - i just thought it was related to that but didnt know it could have actually been the grinder. Thanks for telling me. For the hand grinder, hopefully less than like 80 bucks? is the Q air any good for that budget?

For hand grinders: - 1zpresso any of their line ups are good - timemore c2 - commandante grinders After that it just gets exponentially expensive Electric Grinders - fellow ode or opus - df64 - baratza encore - varia - lagom p64 or mini - mahlkonigs -sk40 Just look for burr grinders either conical or flat burrs would do. Depending on the shape, geometry if blades, and type, they can affect the flavor profile of the brews. You can deep dive on this whenever. But you would want a burr grinder than a blade one any day as it cuts the beans better and more consistently than the latter. I guess if you are not that invested or just want a cup of hot joe you can go ahead with that as it is better than buying pre ground

I had it for a few months to try it out and had the same issue. I purchased from Nordstrom who has a really good return policy… I returned it. I couldn’t take it. I bought the DF64 and am very happy. No issues, miles better in terms of quality, and looks arguably better than other grinders in that price range.

I have both the ZP6 and the K Ultra, while there is difference between them, it’s not as significant as comments in this sub make it to be. The ZP6 will not nuke the body of your beverage away, nor will the K Ultra be an unclear mess when compared to the ZP6. I honestly feel like both these grinders can produce very similar cups, but the difference might be once you’re trying very hard to optimize a specific bean, which most of the time isn’t the case for daily brews since it would take way more coffee than most bags have, unless you’re the chosen one, the master dialer (which I’m not btw). In the end, since you already have an electric grinder for espresso, I don’t feel like the versatility of the K Ultra is that much of a plus, which would make me lean towards buying the ZP6, especially since it’s cheaper as well. Can’t say much about the Pietro btw, never tried it, only thing I know is that it uses flat burrs which might yield a different profile to the conical ones. Is it significant (or desireable) enough to justify the price? No clue, depends on the person, but one thing is for sure, if practicality and mobility is a factor for you, the pietro might not be the best idea since it’s a table top grinder.

most of them can. comically df64v is not the best for it and regular df64 would be much better.

Encore is good, its design is dated, and its a bit lousy to use. But its still a solid entry to grinding for Espresso. I've heard decent things about the DF64, but personally, at that stage, I'd get something from Fellow, looks a lot cleaner, something like the Fellow Opus.

Its cooler looking :) But that aside, its more of a cost thing. The opus is a lot cheaper, and grinds above its price class. Being cheaper means, you feel less bad about modding it. The DF64 has its own set of issues, like retention, static etc. While both of them are really good options, I've always had a thing for how Fellow designs their stuff, everything from their mugs, to their kettles, to their grinders are designed beautifully, and I've a softspot for that. Edit : Also would like to add, one of the things I like to focus on is the user experience, for example a Niche, or a Fellow Ode is a pleasure to use, even if the results are not as precise as the DF64, because making coffee is meant to be as good of an experience as consuming coffee. That's why the review also, we all know that a C2 will give you the absolute best results in terms of price to grind quality ratio, but a cheap electric grinder can make the experience a lot more pleasurable, And that's something I take into account.

I have been using my DF64 for cold brew and espresso.

I have been getting good results so far. I have only had the grinder for a couple of months. The grind could be a little more course for cold brew but I do not get much sediment though the filter. I’ll take a photo of the next brew so you can check it out. For espresso the grinder is killer and the flavor of the bean really shines.

https://preview.redd.it/2neson1bodqd1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ccb43b2924413b3c632b429d93e461d603ec9c0 48sec to grind 130g. I fumbled around a little and wasn’t trying to rush, just curious how long it would take. I feel I save a ton of time compared to making cold brew with a blade grinder.

It has about twice less power and small chute makes you clean it more often. Plus, you pretty much stuck with default 54 mm burrs with no options to upgrade. When you can get DF64 for just 100€ more - it is a questionable choice.

1. It is not about time. It can stale. 2. No, it is not. 3. Stock burrs on 64 are even better, but you want have an options. 4. On well known web site which claims that they deal with EU and US taxes it is~100 EUR.

If you’re comfortable tinkering (or dare I say excited about tinkering) the DF64 is a no brainer.

I think the single unit that I'd be looking at if I was willing to spend more more than $250 US is the DF64. It is a bit bigger than even the Fellow Opus but still not huge and has some advantages over the DF54. That said, if you have a bit more to spend, it might be worthwhile to do as others have said and have a manual grinder for pour over and a separate electric grinder for espresso. There are some engineering challenges with devising a multi-purpose machine. Even ignoring those, there are some kinda unavoidable issues involving retention when you make a big change in grind size, and if you do it all the time then those issues can really pile up.

Depends if you prefer single dosing or grind on demand. For single dosing it's hard to beat a DF54 or DF64. If you don't want to weigh out every time and don't switch beans/brew styles often, you can get a Eureka Mignon Specialita from espressocoffeeshop.com for about $450US shipped. I just did the latter and it's really improved my mornings

The difference is the burr size and the modability, I guess. So, you could swap out different burr sets on the 64, but maybe not on the 54 because I don't think there are a lot on the market. So, if you want to swap out your burrs for different styles, I'd go for the DF64. If you're gonna stick to one thing, I'd go for the DF54

If you use the bellows there is almost no retention