DF64P

I have a DF64p and bought a regular DF64 to keep with my other machine at my parent’s house. If I buy a 1k+ grinder and I think it makes that much of difference I will 100% buy another one. I’m thinking of upgrading my machine first tho.

I have a DF64p and bought a regular DF64 to keep with my other machine at my parent’s house. If I buy a 1k+ grinder and I think it makes that much of difference I will 100% buy another one. I’m thinking of upgrading my machine first tho.

I’ve been using [my DF64P](https://www.reddit.com/r/coffeestations/s/KBdnccp3qo) for the past 3 years and it has been great for me. This version has the grind size adjustment in the base so I can take it apart and clean it and it keeps the setting it was at. It is all metal and I’ve never thought of it as being “cheap”.

I replaced an Opus that died shortly after the first year for a Mokkom flat 64mm (seems to also be sold as Shardor) it is all metal build, or at least seems so, has virtually no retention, cup profile with stock burrs is similar to the Opus but feels a little cleaner/improved, single dosing bellows were included and it cost a little less than the Opus. So far I’ve had the Mokkom two or three months and I’m quite pleased with it. I will probably get some 64mm brew burrs down the road which is something you can’t do with a conical. Espresso dialling is frustratingly complicated on the Opus, so if you have it plan on having espresso better skip it. That said before the Opus died I wasn’t that unhappy with it, there is some retention, but using the lid as a bellows and a couple of whacks help with most. For half the price, if you’re on a tight budget it might not be terrible, but you could also consider Femobook A2 cordless or Kingrinder K6 (or K7) or an 1zpresso manual grinders.

I have a 64v with dlc I will have to respectfully disagree. You can get some super bright high clarity/ tea like brews on low rpm, and does espresso no problem. It’s been my daily driver for 5 years. Only issue I have with it is switching over to espresso from pour over requires a quick 5 min brushing. But at the end of the day it’s always better to have dedicated grinder for both.

I have a 64v and it will do both quite nicely. Make sure you get the dlc burrs they are a huge step up from the stock italmills. You do need to brush out the grind chamber if you plan to switch from pour over to espresso. It does retain some grinds. I would definitely recommend it for either, but hold onto your encore for espresso.

I just got the newest version with the DLC burrs and it's great.

I can attest to the DF64 with the new updates, plasma generator, new lid and the DLC burrs and its great.

Ah ok. DF64 is not the same as DF64V. A lot of people seem to get them confused. V is a completely different design. DF64 I would not recommend anyone get anymore since for roughly the same price, the CF64V is better across the board. The regular DF64 is kind of outdated but still gets recommended cause many people don’t know any better and just parrot what they’ve read. Kind of a similar issue I have with the Timemore 064S. Price is higher than it should be now but people blindly recommend it. It’s certainly still a good grinder and deserves to be considered, but the $480 sale price makes more sense than the $599 msrp price tag. As for the conical grinders, Lagom Casa gets recommended a lot now since people that have bought it seem to like it. It’s a lower fines, higher uniformity, high clarity conical rather than something more traditional like the Niche Zero. It achieves this with the burrs of course but also with low rpm (140rpm vs Niche’s 330rpm). That does mean though it can grind a bit slower than other conical grinders . It is the only fixed rpm grinder out of the ones you listed. The main selling point of the VS4 to me would be the variable RPM. 150-300 is a great range for playing around with conical burrs (unlike the VS6 which has a more flat burr focused rpm range with 500 to 1600). But like you said, it’s new so it’s hard to find reliable testimonials on how the burr geometry and grinder in general performs. The design side looks fine though, and the gear box is metal unlike the VS3 so reliability should be better.

So I’m only gonna list the 64mm flat burr grinders just because I like the flexibility and it would be fun to mess around with even with a Z2 in the future. But it pretty much means only Chinese grinders at this price point. CF64V: $400 USD, 64mm vertically mounted burrs, 400w brushless motor with variable rpm for fines adjustment, all the retention and static mitigation gimmicks, stock burrs are DLC coated. Pretty everything you want (other than being ugly) Timemore 064S: $480 on sale, better machining precision and more effective prebreaker auger than the CF64V, bad popcorning, no ionizer or bellow, but nice fidget toy with the rotational knocker and all the magnets. Underpowered 150w brushless motor but quieter as a result and gets away with it because of the effective pre breaker. DF64 is inferior than CF64V in every way for about the same price. It is ironically over priced now but still gets recommended all the time because of past popularity rather than offering the competitive value that it had originally which gave it its popularity. DF64V: $500 USD I think, but the latest version hasn’t started shipping in the US yet. Latest version has a best in class 400w servo motor and variable rpm, externally mounted ionizer to go along with the magnetic chute, and also added a flickable metal declumper flap which serves a similar function as knockers in vertical burr grinders to get out retention and also avoid clogs. Tilted horizontal mounted burrs, but the foot print is very small as a result.

At that budget? maybe DF83V with some SSP burrs. A 078S with SSP burrs could be an option too but if you like playing around with swapping burrs, I’d wait for the 2nd Gen 078S later this year for the easier and likely more idiot-proof tool-less grind chamber access. Kind of funny to see you mention DF64 and build quality in the same sentence, and then also say mixed reviews on the Timemores. If you’re going to get a DF 64mm grinder, get the CF64V or the DF64V gen3, not the DF64 unless you are just looking for cheap. But if you’re looking for cheap Chinese 64mm, you might as well get the Mokkom 64 and still skip the DF64. Philos is over budget Mahlkonig X64 SD is over complicated in all the wrong ways in terms of how it’s engineered. But you do get the German brand at least. Eureka has retention issues on top of the proprietary burr size, but it’s made in Italy so that could be a plus for people that are really biased against Chinese manufacturing

What’s your budget? The common “entry level” recommendation is a Bambino or Bambino Plus, paired with an Baratza Encore ESP grinder or DF54 grinder. Infuser or Duo Temp Pro are also good alternatives to the Bambinos if you want something a bit more classic, more sturdy, but less modern tech. The next mid tier to end game ish recommendation would be a Breville Dual Boiler, paired with any number of higher end grinders. There are way more expensive espresso machines out there but you’re pretty much hitting diminishing returns after the Breville Dual Boiler. The coffee grinder is really going to be more important than the espresso machine. For a mid tier easy to use grinder, Niche Zero is a great option. It’s easy to use and easy to dial in different beans, with minimal prep and cleanup due to the no faff low retention design. But a lot of the espresso ~~snobs~~ connoisseurs are going to want something with a more targeted grind that requires more work to dial in and needs to be dialed in differently for different beans but is targeted and can extract the unique flavors of different beans and roasts more clearly rather than just having a good but blended tasting espresso. For those type of grinders, 64mm (or larger) flat burrs are a popular option, with the DF64 being a nice cheaper entry level Chinese grinder, Timemore Sculptor (either 64mm or 78mm) being a good mid tier option, and something like the Mazzer Philos or Zerno Z1 being more expensive options. And then people start messing with swapping out different burrs for different flavor profiles and different beans and it starts becoming an addiction and you fall down the rabbit hole and find yourself spending every waking hour thinking about coffee.

If your most important thing is clarity, then you should be paying a lot of attention to the burrs. Unless you’re willing to swap them out. For example, a DF 64 with SSPMP burrs is going to have much more clarity than a timemore 64 with stock burrs. And visa versa.