Your grinder is the most important piece in your espresso system. The brewer is the least important. That is, if you are going for the taste and experience.
Decide if you want a grinder with a hopper or if you want single dose.
The Zerno Z1 or Z2 ($1,500 to $2,500), Kafatek M6 ($2,500), Lagom P80 ($1,800) are just a few very good single dose grinders to consider.
I'm not sure I have anything to directly answer your questions. but here's some info you might find interesting from my experiences.
Burrs need seasoning. I'd say about 20kgs for 80mm burrs doing espresso. It'll be drinkable from 2kg but not great. It'll be nice from 5kg but that's all. It'll be great from 10kg with weird after tastes that hang in your mouth. It'll be mostly there at 15kg but not at full sweetness and still a hint of undesirable tastes. 20kg+ is mind blowing potential 😁
If you have the palette to appreciate different burr sets, you'll also taste unseasoned burrs so be prepared to get through a lot of coffee if you want to enjoy them.
If you buy 3 sets of burrs for you new grinder, it'll be 30kgs of seasoning to get you going and 60kgs of coffee before you get the full experience. Fine in a commercial setting but a lot in a domestic setting.
I'm not saying this to put you off - for a domestic setting the burrs will last a lifetime and I see it as an investment.
I've not long got the SSP Hu's and they are incredible. I thought I would enjoy them but probably think they would be over hyped/priced. I'm blown away and they are well worth it. My favourite burrs to date.
I've had a p80 arrive a few days ago and so far very happy with it. Im about 7.5kgs in to seasoning them and from my own experience, you only really get the true & best flavours from 20kg onwards (My SSP HU's see about 30kgs a week in a cafe so it didn't take long). It's tasting pretty amazing but I'm still getting an unfavorable after taste right now. I'm very excited to see how this develops and eventually compares in flavor to the HU's. This grinder is at home and I only grind about 100g a day so it's going to be a slow evolution.
Changing burrs on the p80 is super simple with some fishing magnets. I don't plan to and likely won't, firstly because I have a lot of grinders so often have a spare grinder to try burrs in, but second and more importantly burr alignment is a pain in the arse and it will change the flavour of the burrs if not done correctly. It puts me off changing burrs regularly because I don't want to risk it going wrong and having to mess with it. I much prefer to just get burrs set up, aligned and tasting amazing and then just have a range of grinders rather than one to keep swapping with.
The p80 has diagonally mounted burrs which will be a bit easier to manage, but most of my grinders are flat burrs which makes it harder to keep perfectly clean and align. I have a mazzer ZM with vertically mounted burrs and it's *much* easier to change and mount the burrs when they are vertically mounted, so that's a nod to the zerno's. (I have the SSP MP burrs on the Mazzer ZM and I'm very happy with them too).
I'm really tempted to try the lab sweets so please update me if you get them!
I tried them a little bit but not enough to give a deeper review. I’m doing some back to back this weekend for a bit of fun. The brew burrs are incredible, a lot more clarity for sure with out being harsh
depends on the coffee but I’m anywhere between 5.5 and 6.5. Also, I’m finding I prefer high rpm, Im at 1300 as I like the sweeter cups, I’m getting compared to 600 rpm.
this isn’t true at all about the P80 stalling with Brewing burrs. I have a P80 and the SSP Brewing burrs installed in it, I’m not noticing stalling with it and the burrs work perfectly in the P80. The P80 at 600 rpm has zero issues with the Brewing burrs, people need to stop spreading these lies.
I’m at 600 rpm with the SSP Brewing burrs. The big adjustment I’ve made is no longer needing to do RDT. I find the finer I go, I still get amazing cups. It’s almost impossible to make bad coffee with these burrs, pour over on easy mode. I started at 6.5 on the dial and moved down to 5 and it’s all be great. Ignore the mixed info, some are spreading false info about this grinder and I would just flat out ignore them. Its a great grinder, that’s easy to use, clean, amazing work flow and quiet.
When it comes to 80mm grinders buy the one you like the most as if you have the same burrs in say a Weber EG-1 or a Z2 or a P80 it’s going to be very difficult to tell them apart. I never could when we did a big shoot out with the 64mm platform.
I agree with the muted aspect but found that to be so with Washed beans and Honey (only tried 1 Honey though). I really love it with Naturals and 1 Co-ferment tried). So I now use it with Omni burrs for those processes.
After looking around for a while, I bought the P80 last week. Definitely don't buy the P64, way older product and the P80 should be just an upgrade at a nearly identical cost, unless we're talking second hand market, but I'd probably still stick to the P80. I might've stretched my budget to buy the Zerno Z2 (or Z1) if I was in the US, but the P80 with the all inclusive shipping to EU made way more sense. Wasn't planning on spending that much, but saving a bit of money for a bigger purchase down the line is probably worth it, rather buy once cry once. If that budget just wasn't feasible, I'd say that the Lagom Casa or Mazzer Philos would be my main options depending on budget range. Niche Zero seems a bit "outdated" at this point, and also losses in value when having to export it outside of the UK. DF64 is just too "budget oriented" and unpolished even if it can be great for the price. The P80 definitely seems the most end game with 80mm blind burrs with minor cons/issues which are on par with the issues that people have on grinders twice the price and that fall on the "nothing is perfect" end of things.
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DF54 Series
80% positive of 386 users
Great value for espresso, but clogs and poor for pour-over.
alexdeini
