Turin Grinders - DF64E

# **Without philosophizing in the answer, you have two options: a handgrinder, or electric grinder.** — ## **🔹 Hand Grinders** ### **High-End Options:** - **1Zpresso K-Ultra** – External adjustment, versatile for both pourover & espresso. - **1Zpresso J-Max** – 8.8-micron steps, optimized for espresso but handles pourover. - **Kinu M47 Phoenix / Classic** – Precise & durable, great for both. - **Comandante C40 MK4** – Ideal for pourover; needs *Red Clix* for better espresso dialing. - **Timemore Chestnut S3** – Stepless adjustment, more suited for pourover. - **1Zpresso ZP6** – Produces ultra-clean grinds, excelling in filter brews. ### **Mid-Range Options:** - **1Zpresso JX-Pro** – Espresso-friendly with finer adjustments than JX. - **Timemore Chestnut C3 ESP** – Budget option with espresso-compatible burrs, decent for pourover. - **1Zpresso X-Pro** – Compact, external adjustment, slower but espresso-capable. — ## **⚡ Electric Grinders** ### **High-End Options:** - **Mahlkönig EK43** – The gold standard in specialty coffee shops. - **Weber EG-1** – Premium single-dose grinder for all brew methods. - **Lagom P100** – High-performance, SSP burr options for precision grinding. ### **Mid-Range / Prosumer Options:** - **DF64 Gen 2 / DF64P / DF64E** – Affordable single-dose grinders, great for both. - **Niche Zero** – Top-tier single-dose grinder for espresso & pourover. - **Eureka Mignon Specialita** – Stepless adjustment, solid for espresso & can handle pourover. - **Fellow Opus** – Budget-friendly, designed for both espresso & filter brewing. - **Baratza Vario+ / Sette 270** – Great entry-level grinders with micro-adjustments for espresso. - **Timemore Sculptor 078 / 064S** – New contenders with solid grind consistency. ### **Budget-Friendly Options:** - **Fellow Ode Gen 2** (Needs *SSP burrs* for espresso) – Excellent for pourover, but needs mods for espresso. - **Baratza Encore ESP** – Beginner-friendly with stepped adjustments. - **Eureka Mignon Crono** – Simple & effective for both espresso & filter. — 🔎 **Check reviews before buying**—grind quality & user experience vary. Preferences are subjective!

DF64 all day long! I’ve got one of the interactions of the first interactions of the first version. Perhaps the 3rd enhancement. I upgraded the burrs because it only cost $350 about 4-years ago plus burrs taking it up to $499. IT WORKS GREAT!!!! From my experience I would buy one again if I were to buy a new one. I works great so I’m not motivated to change.

I second this. it's a very solid flat burr grinder with a lot of range from filter coffee to espresso. Build quality is fantastic, but it is a single dose grinder, so if you are looking for something with a hopper that can grind through larger amounts, then Baratza Encore ESP is a good introductory grinder with espresso range

I have a df 64 and although i have upgraded my espresso grinder, i still use the df64 for drip. It’s a very good piece for the money. It works well enough and produces a fairly good consistent grind.

tons 😁 Yes it has, but it matters only at the moment you switch beans and you fix it by grinding 2 grams after the switch that you discard. No big deal, unlike the spray of powder that arises from the DF64 due to static

I’m happy with df64. That said I make one drink per day.

I'll 3rd the DF64. I love mine!

+1 Can't recommend DFs anymore, given their QA issues. They are great when they work, but manufacturing is still hit-or-miss IME (though steadily improving).

had a few friends buy DFs; at least the 64 and 83 had cross thread dial adjustments on a couple of them. the carrier alignment issue was pretty concerning too -- seems like there's some thermal expansion issues that would move things around in a transient kinda way, which is horrifying to debug

I have a DF64p and bought a regular DF64 to keep with my other machine at my parent’s house. If I buy a 1k+ grinder and I think it makes that much of difference I will 100% buy another one. I’m thinking of upgrading my machine first tho.

DF64 - many burr options for upgrades, faster grind time, metal dosing cup that has less static issues, larger chute so its less likely to be blocked.. i dont know what else. DF54 is smaller and cheaper which is a bonus for me!

"but, I do understand your point on the VS6 if I am not purchasing SSP's later on" You should check Varia's website since only their proprietary burrs work. "Can I ask how much you favor the 54 than the 64 gen 2 or varia vs3 gen 2?" The flavor difference between df54 and df64 is minimal, but more of a speed upgrade as well as convenience. The DF54 is still in it's infancy and has some quircks on it's own, one being that it requires much more regular cleaning for it not to clog. With the DF64 you still get the option to change the burrs later on, although I enjoy the DF64V more since the variable RPM makes a difference in shot quality and it can also be dialed to the minimum for high clarity filter. Varia VS3 is a grinder I'm not familiar with, nor I can recommend it as a learning curve towards upgrading to the VS6 later on. Each grinder is different. That being said, it's a conical and I don't particularly prefer conicals. I'd rather get a hand grinder that's twice as cheap and will never fail. The DF54 is by far the best bang for your buck, but if you can stretch to a DF64 it would be great.

DF64 with SSP Cast Lab Sweets or Lebrew Sweets will probably be your best bet at your price point.

Timemore Sculptor 64s / 64, Baratza Encore ESP Pro, DF64, and the Mahlkonig X64SD (read about the duty cycle before going for the X64SD). The Timemore Sculptor 64s might be a better choice than the Fellow Ode 2 or Opus. It’s got excellent reviews and costs about the same as the Ode 2. It’s rated for everything from Espresso to Cold Brew. The burrs are 64mm so you can find replacements easily or upgrade to SSP burrs. There’s also the Sculptor 64, which will grind for everything except espresso. The Sculptor’s footprint and design is about the same as the Ode. The ESP pro and Sculptor are probably the best of the lot.

Eureka Specialita is a solid choice, especially with an aftermarket dial. DF64 seems to have been a popular choice for many years now too

So, one good grinder that is all metal that works for drip/press/etc is the lagom casa. The least expensive would be something like the df54 or 64. I think they may have a plastic spout where the grinds come out, but that's it. They are possibly more aimed towards espresso. Quality control isn't great from what I know. If you're OK with a bit of plastic outisde of the grind chamber, then something like the fellow opus or any of the baratza grinders would be great.

I just upgraded from an old Rocky to a df64 and I love it. The grind is great and I’m a big fan of the way it looks.

I use my DF64 for espresso, French press and pour over with good results.

100% of people will say breville. cheapest grinder would be baratza encore esp. but id spend more and get a grinder you won't have to upgrade again, ie a df64. grinder is the most important part of good espresso.

Of course you can :D It's mostly swiching between grind settings thats a pain, and on a lot of grinders going between coarse and fine the setting don't always mach excatly when going back and forth - especially in the espresso range. You could absolutely get an electric grinder now, but I also reccomend getting a seperate grinder, when you get an espresso setup. Depending if you get the df64, a new grinder could be for pour over or espresso: I've heard that the df64 is a good all-rounder, so you could get zp6 or similar for pour over and use the df64 for espresso or you could keep that for pour over and get something espresso-forward for the new machine.

I like this list because I bought the number 1 grinder after doing my research on Reddit and online in general. James Hoffmann did a comparison video of the most popular grinders and the only negative thing he said about the DF-54 that I recall was that he personally doesn't like bellows. He said more negative things about the other grinders he compared. Reviews I saw of the DF-64 said it is the loudest electric grinder of all other grinders in the low to mid price range so that makes it less desirable than the DF-54.

Oh boy I just bought a fancy espresso machine so I can talk about this all day and my coffee budget is astronomical right now. I'm telling myself it's cheaper than buying a latte every day!  I got a Rancilio Silvia Pro X espresso machine and a DF64 grinder. Both are a huge splurge but they make incredible coffee. I love the dual boiler on the espresso machine so I don't have to wait for the steam wand to heat up. I'm still perfecting my technique but I can already make excellent lattes. The grinder does single doses (it doesn't have a hopper and grinds all the beans you put into it), but that style may work for you if you're only making one cup at a time. If you want the most small and quiet grinder option and don't mind a bit of extra work, maybe a hand grinder? Also if you're looking for an upgrade to the aeropress I love my Fellow Prismo cap with the metal filter! 

Congratulations on your new grinder. From where did you buy the canisters? I upgraded to Gaggia EVO pro + df64 and loving the new setup. You can consider Gaggia E24 which is expected in India by Mar but price will be almost same as Lelit with PID.

I'd personally get a filter-only grinder. Wait for a sale, grab an Ode Gen 2, and buy an espresso grinder when the time comes (DF54 is insane value). The best grinders for double duty are medium-high clarity conical grinders like Comandante, K-Ultra etc IMO. The Femobook A5 and Lagom Casa are a couple electric grinders that are in the same category (I haven't tried either, but they're well reviewed). I previously used a Lagom Mini for both filter and espresso and it was fantastic. The DF54 and 64 both do a decent job at filter, but it's not great. The 64 mm SSP MP burrs are often recommended as a do-it-all burr set, but they are for a very specific espresso profile and they are not beginner friendly for espresso. I didn't enjoy the espresso with them. SSP Cast are supposed to be decent for both, but you're giving up the clarity everyone is always seeking. A couple other decent options that I've tried are Ditting 54mm steel burrs in the Vario+ and Eureka's 50 mm brew burrs in an entry level mignon. The UX is not ideal with either of these setups compared to a grinder designed to single dose. If the Ditting burrs fit in the DF without crazy mods it would be a great option. Edit: I forgot to mention that there are now brew burrs available for the DF54. I'm planning to grab a set to try out once they're available in Canada.

Find a used df64, I recently sold mine for just that amount.

I have the df64 but you might want to search the sub for people who own it and see what they say.

I'll 4th is the DF64

\> I would prefer a single dose as I use 3 types of coffee beans I use here and there. Agreed, go with a single-dosing grinder. \> I am thinking of getting the DF54 My strong recommendation is to get one via a retailer who can support you if there are issues and not direct. My own experience of buying directly from Turin is woeful; their customer service was non-existent. If you buy from an in-country retailer, they are responsible for sorting any issues. \> Would you recommend a DF64 instead or try and get a DF54? I had a v1 DF64 previously - IMO, it is probably the best value grinder on the market today, given its price and its ability to have different burrs. Given you say you don't mind loud noise (and it is, IMO a very loud grinder), this seems like a good option for you (but buy via an in-country retailer). \> Off topic, but it seems like the DF series is way more favoured than the Niche. I am not so sure. There is a lot of talk and recommendations for them, but when you see pics of people's setups, there are an awful lot of niche zeros out there (inc. with me - I have one alongside an Option-O P64 and some hand-grinders). The Zero is not favored so strongly as the flat grinders for pour-over, it tends to get used primarily for espresso, which IMO is is very good for. Plus, has the best workflow and sound (quietness) of any grinder I have used. \> On another note, I am thinking of getting a Lagom Casa A superbly well-built and capable grinder. Option-O are legendary in the business.

Almost everyone on here are fans of Turin grinders. Recommend wil be df54 or df64

Df64 is pretty good. you can do espresso and filter

a hand grinder will make great coffee at a lower price if you’re interested, can’t beat the kingrinder P1/2 for like 30$ if you’ve never ground your own beans. moving up the K6 can be found for ~100$. after that you probably wanna look at 1zpresso lineup. electric grinder you could get a baratza encore for a true budget option, then the df54 for the most bang for your buck. after that you’ll see diminishing returns and prices really increase, the rabbit hole is deep, but start small.

yeah the encore esp would be good because it would also be an upgrade over your sage built in grinder, so you could use it for espresso too. i’m not sure if they sell it with the single dose hopper and dosing cup, but you would definitely want to weigh and single dose your beans if you’re looking to improve your espresso and get consistent results with the aeropress. i suggested a hand grinder in my other comments but if you want a grinder to also upgrade your sage built in grinder then i would go electric and do the baratza encore esp or spend more for a df54.

I am one of those people who went down the rabbit hole and got a Lagom P64 + unimodal v1 burrs. I will first say that it is amazing — the build, team support, everything. Could I get something close to that much cheaper? Probably. My brother has the DF64 with unimodal burrs and, while the polish is not there, it can probably do close to what my Lagom does. As long as you pick a grinder that 1) is generally reliable, 2) has okay customer support, and 3) lets you swap out burrs, that is pretty great! I've had many cafe filter brews from the Ode that impressed me. Your main limitation will probably be grind adjustment — depending on how "unimodally" your burrs are, 5-10 microns makes a huuuge difference because the sweet spot window is much narrower. Soooo Ode is great, but at that price point you should also consider DF64!

The t64 is solid for the price, but the df64 is a step up, definitely with the dlc burrs.

I’ve done this method with a variety of electric grinders (including baratazas) to good effect: 1st grind at the coarsest possible setting. Then adjust it to your finest setting and slow feed the coffee in. I get a pretty good Turkish from my df64.

I don’t think anything at $1000 is gonna beat a DF54 by enough to justify the price. A DF64 or a DF83 with all purpose burrs would be my next choices.

I used to own a DF64, but I threw it away. I recommend adding more money to the Niche Zero, it's worth it.

When you say "slightly" how much is that? My experience is that it's at least 50% more. I got my DF64 for €450, some resellers as low as €380. Sculptor starts att €680 for the cheapest store I could find.

Having compared the mignon to the df64, I would say that buying the Eureka is a huge mistake given the small price difference

I purchased my DF for 400eur on Amazon?

The loudness is more or less the same. We didn’t notice much difference. True, the DF64 is far more convenient. Everything flows smoother. The puck holder actually works, it’s easier to single dose grind and adjusting the grind size is sooooooo much better

not sure if the issue has been fixed but I had big problems with my Sette 270... went thru 3 power boards failing before giving up & getting a DF64 instead. (much happier now as it's a simpler machine that does one thing very well).

Here is 1 more. I just got the DF64 about 2 weeks ago. It's been amazing and consistent. Way better than any of my other grinders. Very impressed

The DF64 is loud but the DF54 is pretty quiet and tastes the same. X54 isn't a single doser so you have to decide if you want a hopper or not.

Hey, thanks for sharing this. I wrote a long form review for the DF64 last week so you can switch my "neutral" to "positive"!

Love this video and the £500 one. As someone who's been grinding manually for espresso for close to three years, I've definitely reached the point where I'm prepared to make my life a little easier. I wonder if I can be cheeky, James (or anyone else kind enough to answer), why would I choose to go for the DF64 over the DF54?

I don't think spare parts are an issue for the DF64, that's why I bought it. Most of the parts that can fail are in the 48 lb McMaster Carr manual. And the ones that aren't there can be replaced with items from McMaster Carr. The DF64 is built like an old school Skilsaw. It's using a brushed AC motor with an oversized armature. The motor will outlast me, so long as if I replace the bearing before they fail. Probably won't be able to call up Turin for bearings 40 years from now, but I can get them out of McMaster Carr. The electronics can fail. But it's easy to wire your own controls for a brushed AC motor that doesn't have soft start. Build quality can be an issue. If it's assembled poorly and out of balance, you'll know within the warranty period.

Ohhh bro dont even consider baratza and never buy from brewing gadgets. Their customer service is shittttty. I have a encore esp. their response was everything is consumable in warranty. Get the df54. I have df64 as well fix coffee service is solid plus better built quality 

DF54, for potential future burr upgrades. I have df64 and after the ssp burr upgrade its night and day difference from stock burrs. 

whats wrong with the df64?

Thanks! For your first point, damn i did notice that sometimes but i always thought it was just due to the aging of the beans. Like I've noticed the same beans would require a finer setting the older it gets. But for your second point i never had a chance to do any comparison since i've never had a grinder specifically for filter. Do you have any recommendations for a budget hand grinder i could try so i could compare it with the df64?

Yeah - i just thought it was related to that but didnt know it could have actually been the grinder. Thanks for telling me. For the hand grinder, hopefully less than like 80 bucks? is the Q air any good for that budget?

First when I started brewing coffee I bought the same looking wonderchef machine Worked fine when I was using dark roast beans and even worked well on medium dark. As soon as I switched to the moka pot and went on for a finer grind, All the issues started occurring and I was unhappy with consistency. Even though I was working my way around with v60 I was not happy with the grind quality, I mean what elc can you expect from a ceramic grinder, no aroma no clarity on the notes, Much more issue Shifted to Agaro ( I was totally unaware about the community on reddit) Bought another cheap grinder, was not happy and at this moment I had already spent around 15k on the grinder and accessories, Those machines worked fine for few months and as soon as the burrs started getting old for say 5-7 months there were issues. Then I came to know about the community Went on for proper entry level Baratza Encore ESP grinder, Was happy for 6 months and then bought another grinder DF64, And now I find myself in a deep Rabbit HOLE 😅😅😅 I have used those cheap machines that's the reason I would suggest anyone not to spend your hard earned money on cheap machines, after some time you won't be happy and will be upgrading to the next known best thing.

The convenience level is incomparable Also isn't DF64 loud af? Single dose flat burr would naturally have better clarity tho

Df64 is under $400. That seems to be a great flat burr grinder in your price range Setter 270 is $400 from Amazon. Conical, grinds like the 1Z, I have both. Drop through grinding means fluffy grounds with anything but the most oily beans. Don't bother with the WI version, just single dose.

I have both the ZP6 and the K Ultra, while there is difference between them, it’s not as significant as comments in this sub make it to be. The ZP6 will not nuke the body of your beverage away, nor will the K Ultra be an unclear mess when compared to the ZP6. I honestly feel like both these grinders can produce very similar cups, but the difference might be once you’re trying very hard to optimize a specific bean, which most of the time isn’t the case for daily brews since it would take way more coffee than most bags have, unless you’re the chosen one, the master dialer (which I’m not btw). In the end, since you already have an electric grinder for espresso, I don’t feel like the versatility of the K Ultra is that much of a plus, which would make me lean towards buying the ZP6, especially since it’s cheaper as well. Can’t say much about the Pietro btw, never tried it, only thing I know is that it uses flat burrs which might yield a different profile to the conical ones. Is it significant (or desireable) enough to justify the price? No clue, depends on the person, but one thing is for sure, if practicality and mobility is a factor for you, the pietro might not be the best idea since it’s a table top grinder.

most of them can. comically df64v is not the best for it and regular df64 would be much better.

No issues with my DF64. It's more stout than the Shardor...doing that thing will last with all the plastic components.

I can also attest to the DF64's awesomeness

I have 3, soon to be 4. 99% of the time I'm using either my fellow ode (gen 1 with gen 2 burr replacement) or my df64. I use the ode for everything other than espresso. I use my Df64 exclusively for espresso. I also have a cheapo no name Amazon hand grinder from when I was first getting into specialty coffee around 10 years ago, I use that for camping and travel with my aeropress or pourover. I want to get a k6 soon for better on the go grinding. I'm also a lowish volume roaster and have access to some very nice commercial grinders at work, so a lot of my coffee at home for non-espresso I just pregrind at work and it doesn't make a huge difference in flavor/brewing *** I also play guitar and I only have 5 guitars maybe I'm doing something wrong...

It has about twice less power and small chute makes you clean it more often. Plus, you pretty much stuck with default 54 mm burrs with no options to upgrade. When you can get DF64 for just 100€ more - it is a questionable choice.

1. It is not about time. It can stale. 2. No, it is not. 3. Stock burrs on 64 are even better, but you want have an options. 4. On well known web site which claims that they deal with EU and US taxes it is~100 EUR.

If you’re comfortable tinkering (or dare I say excited about tinkering) the DF64 is a no brainer.

I think the single unit that I'd be looking at if I was willing to spend more more than $250 US is the DF64. It is a bit bigger than even the Fellow Opus but still not huge and has some advantages over the DF54. That said, if you have a bit more to spend, it might be worthwhile to do as others have said and have a manual grinder for pour over and a separate electric grinder for espresso. There are some engineering challenges with devising a multi-purpose machine. Even ignoring those, there are some kinda unavoidable issues involving retention when you make a big change in grind size, and if you do it all the time then those issues can really pile up.

You didnt list this but the DF64 is awesome and I got one for the price of the t64 you have listed. Been able to dial in perfect espresso every time using the DLC burrs.

The difference is the burr size and the modability, I guess. So, you could swap out different burr sets on the 64, but maybe not on the 54 because I don't think there are a lot on the market. So, if you want to swap out your burrs for different styles, I'd go for the DF64. If you're gonna stick to one thing, I'd go for the DF54

If you use the bellows there is almost no retention

Personally, the cheapest I'll go for an electric grinder is the mischief mini, then yung df54/df64 na if I see myself using light roast for espresso or gusto ko ng upgrade path/options in terms of burrs.