Max Plus (SNSC 2.3)

That sounds good. We have that exact model for local rental services and I ride them quite often, Ive noticed theyre faster and accelerate better than the newer L60 L models, but absolutely do suffer on hills more. If only it had dual motors and dual suspension of any kind then it would be a win, but as far as my city goes, a single motor low-powered scooter is a no-go.

Allow me to relay my experience. I had a snsc 2.3 which I had sold recently for personal reasons though i wish i couldve kept it. it has a ~15000Ah 36v battery that goes 25-27km/h. I achieved 52.5km range and segway advertises 60km range in those. I got 52.5 mainly because the battery is 2 years old. So idk whats it about there. Now im shopping for a consumer scooter and looking for similar specs. Im looking at scooters advertising 60km range but then I scroll down and see "10Ah 36v" and it makes me wanna rip my face knowing that damn thing cannot go anywhere near 60km

You are wrong my friend. I had a snsc 2.3. The worst thing about it is that the suspension is pretty much useless. Otherwise it was perfect for what it was.

That issue is why I find it problematic that the "civilian" scooter market seems to want to impose this certain linear-ish correlation between maximum speed (maybe other parameters as well) and energy on board, and refuses to offer options with bigger packs - WITHOUT them coming with a bigger, heavier, setup for higher speed in stock form, hence counterproductively less energy efficient, while also not being what many users are actually looking for (unnecessary, bulky, not technically street legal in some locales, more risk if you use that speed, etc.) scooter. I'm pretty sure a lot of users do NOT want a super class scooter, they just want/need a pack containing >>500Wh, and get fenced into buying racey hobbymarket machines just to get more range out of the box. Or else, deal with range anxiety, and are hypermiling and opportunity charging their circa 500Wh rentaloid scooter. Also, we widely haven't seen the market get with the program on *removable packs*, which are another front where commercial scooters have since moved-on from the fixed ~500Wh paradigm of "third gens" like the G30/SNSC 2.0, Lime Gen3, Bird 1 and 2, various Kuickwheels and Okais, ... (which are still the leading archetype for MOST civvy market "rentaloids" or "commuter type things") but that hasn't made it to the larger market yet ...Tool-free quick swap packs are very useful in every way. I love my SNSC 2.3 1004Wh pack setups. I could ride across the fucking state with one. They make my stock pack 2.0s feel like a range anxiety situation.

>What is your use case for easily replaceable batteries? ...You seem to want a battery that can slide in and out within seconds. Are you planning to carry extra batteries with you in a backpack? As a 2.3 owner with 3 packs (2 of which are the maxxed out 1004Wh option packs): * One - yes, potentially. It's at some point a more elegant solution and just a degree of extra freedom to have a tool-free quick swap pack and carry another with you, than to set up a machine with the same amount of energy all connected at once. Which for one of these, a simple small rentaloid scooter that easily fits places - would mean a gnarly Mad Max mess of external pack pods mounted every possible place. Either that, or make the machine a different one that is bigger and longer and less handy in order to fit all the energy neatly. And largely, it's silly to carry ALL of the largest capacity you might *ever* need ALL of the time, when you may need it only once in a blue moon. So, better solution to typically just have one pack installed, and if range anxiety/super long trip, toss another pack in my backpack. * Two - just as rental fleet rationale, to maximize uptime. Ride places all day, ...oshit this pack is getting too flat for comfort and I have somewhere to go *NOW* - So, just swap it for a full one in 10 seconds and put the other one on charge.

I'm a commercial scooter hobbyist of sorts, love all mine, and I have been arguing this all along: Commercial scooter vendors across the board ought to open-up their full product lines to individual sale (as in, no MOQ, you can just buy one scooter if you wish). YES, stuff like the SNSC 2.3 shown WOULD become significantly more expensive in single quantity than either present "civilian" market scooters of vaguely similar parameters, OR the same scooter purchased IN BULK by a rental operator building up or expanding a large fleet. The skookum costs something. Without economy of scale on the freight, ordering, etc. to offset that there will be a price tag associated with it. YES, this cost and a variety of other "mismatch with market demands/tastes" factors would mean these commercial scooters, particularly the heavy, high capacity swappable pack Gen3.5/Gen4 machines (Gen3 is the last major design era that made it directly to the civvie market, see SNSC 2.0 = G30) may not sell like absolute hotcakes or sweep the market. BUT they don't have to. The point is that they *ought to be fairly available*. Some of us value or need what these provide and would be willing to pay the cost of distributing/getting one. It would be nice to be able to just buy them, or recommend them to regular people, instead of the only route to owning them being to hunt down surplus/retired/impounded rentals *which are surprisingly scarce* and fix them up. I would be recommending the shit out of SNSC 2.3/2.4 and so on on the basis of safety/integrity, swappable packs, and awesome range with the 1004/1033Wh option.

This IS NOT unobtanium but you probably are going to need to build it. You can flog a SNSC 2.3 (which has a factory tool-free removable pack setup) for about 40 miles on a 1004Wh pack (which is also, a factory option) ...at least one can on my VESC powered one, the bot control gear might not be quite as efficient. That's not necessarily the best scooter for this particular app/build as I think you need about 50% more energy and *maybe* would like a larger, comfier machine far as deck space, tire size and ride. I just cite it as an example to drive the point that this is NOT all that lofty or difficult. The 2.3 is a deceptively heavy *but merely average rentaloid sized* scooter, that you could easily mistake for a G30 with a thicc stem and a suspension fork at a glance. The pack is not that much physically larger than any ~500Wh factory pack out of a typical "third gen/bot" type machine. I'm surprised at the giant deal some of the commentors are making of it. The truth to the giant deal the commentors make of it, is that the market doesn't cover this territory very well with prebuilt scooters. Easily swapped packs are one rarity, and machines that are set up specifically for that corner of the performance map where you want to run normal, sane and efficient "super pedestrian/bike" speeds for normal commutey/errandy stuff BUT carry a fuckload of energy to go with that efficiency and give you *RANGE* out the wazoo, are another rarity. There are definitely MANY higher energy packs available, but they often are in setups that can go 40+ mph at base speed and are really overpowered, which is an easy way to blow through all that energy a whole lot faster if you get tempted to give it the onions. Others have suggested running supers and hypers with large enough packs to just opportunity charge when you can. That works; though if you use a rig setup to go highway speed like most of those but never go fast, the inverter utilization isn't optimal and probably neither the efficiency compared to setting up the drive equipment for the purpose, and also these scooters will be large, possibly 100+# beasts. Where you'll REALLY have to build is if you want to handle this *with a portable solution* like a stockish G30. Still doable ...Obviously you can cram at least a kWh of pack into the deck space on such a unit if you delete the onboard charger for a regular one, and I would consider hanging more pack in a capsule on the neck tube and maybe a third off the stem tube low down instead of having swappable and carrying multiple if the use-case is so defined and known. (Edit: Also I must disagree about the bike seat thing. 60 miles of getting my bony ass kicked by every bump via a bike seat = fucking *OUCH*. Legs are meant to be the suspension system of a human to begin with and they are still in the system when you stand on your chosen vehicle as with a scooter, I drove reach trucks riding on urethane tires every day for 8 hours at my old job, it's fine.)

Nobody said "consumer" anywhere so I'm not sure what the skepticism is. Nor did anyone mention a claimed overall mass for this setup, so I don't know what the doubt is there. Envelope back for this: 404 miles is about 10 times what I can honestly get from a VESCified SNSC 2.3 with a stock 1004Wh pack (10s9p with some 3.2Ah LG cell I can't quite recall at the moment). That pack, which mind you includes a sturdy plastic case that has been totally filled with potting compound for weatherproofing, weighs about 20# by itself. So, "3-400 pounds" is at least not that far off target, but it is probably very overzealous for a single pack which wouldn't need all the redundant packaging materials. Maybe on target if considering the extra losses of needing to haul all that extra mass around, provide tires rated for the new GVW that won't be killed quickly, etc. (the old "need to burn more fuel to carry more fuel" trap).

> 99.99% of people (ya know. Consumers), would not actually buy a scooter with 100mile range because it would be too large and too heavy. That's a different argument entirely, no one was discussing mass market potential or claimed it was a consumer oriented product, or a product at all. I think it is quite implicit that it is a custom. I also think said argument is immediately wrong, since lots of large heavy super/hyper class scooters are sold, and any of these would represent the sort of platform to "cleanly" carry enough energy on board to do that - and in fact might already be capable of that sort of range by just riding them as-is at rentaloid/bicycle speed, even despite the unrefined control gear in many and the suboptimal bus voltage/motor kv/base speed choices for that use case. >The further point beyond that is NO ONE buys an e-scooter that would get 400mile range, because it would be too large. And too heavy. Still a different argument entirely (no one claimed this build was a "mass marketable product" now *did they* ...) - but this is America where I am, quite a number of us don't have any beef to casually drive what are practically or even literally medium duty trucks to the grocery store and office and through the city and whatnot mostly for the hell of it. So; too what now, necessarily - for that matter?

That's 125 miles. My experience is that a rentaloid/third-gen type thing at roughly 20mph, with proper control gear (FOC) but being operated aggressively and at full speed whenever possible in a real travel/drivecycle situation, will chew up roughly 27.5Wh per mile. This is what both my SNSC 2.0 and 2.3 rigs get and is concurred with by other "honest/realistic" range results for various setups with various types of equipment fitted. Speed does nonlinearly escalate losses, but 25mph isn't that much more and there are other margins and uncertainties here, so let's just call that 30Wh/mile for now. This gives, simplistically, 3750Wh. Again being conservative, we can just call that 4 kWh. This margin in particular might be wise to attribute to the extra mass of the 4 kWh pack that a regular 0.5-1 kWh, 40-60# curb weight rentaloid is not going to have on board which yours will and will increase the losses. But overall this is not a hugely lofty target. It is equivalent to 4 times the stock pack for my 2.3, and that pack is quite manageable. It can easily be fit into a scooter without even any odd bulges or pods mounted externally or the like if you wish; there are many large off-shelf hosts/frames that should easily accommodate that much pack in the deck - typically ones that are used to build up much higher *SPEED* scooters. You won't find the stock production forms of these machines claiming this sort of range, as with the stock setup they will demolish that much energy a LOT faster and get a LOT less of a practical range result due to that pesky nonlinear drag aspect I mentioned earlier. It's more or less a market and community issue/oddity that high endurance/rangey/efficiency optimized scooter builds are very underrepresented for whatever reason. Everyone wants to either go slowly for cheap and be dead quickly, or go fast for not cheap and still be dead quickly, it seems. Even stuff like that SNSC 2.3 of mine (which are rental/commercial scooters) is hard to just *buy* ready made on the civilian market.

> 99.99% of people (ya know. Consumers), would not actually buy a scooter with 100mile range because it would be too large and too heavy. That's a different argument entirely, no one was discussing mass market potential or claimed it was a consumer oriented product, or a product at all. I think it is quite implicit that it is a custom. I also think said argument is immediately wrong, since lots of large heavy super/hyper class scooters are sold, and any of these would represent the sort of platform to "cleanly" carry enough energy on board to do that - and in fact might already be capable of that sort of range by just riding them as-is at rentaloid/bicycle speed, even despite the unrefined control gear in many and the suboptimal bus voltage/motor kv/base speed choices for that use case. >The further point beyond that is NO ONE buys an e-scooter that would get 400mile range, because it would be too large. And too heavy. Still a different argument entirely (no one claimed this build was a "mass marketable product" now *did they* ...) - but this is America where I am, quite a number of us don't have any beef to casually drive what are practically or even literally medium duty trucks to the grocery store and office and through the city and whatnot mostly for the hell of it. So; too what now, necessarily - for that matter?

That's 125 miles. My experience is that a rentaloid/third-gen type thing at roughly 20mph, with proper control gear (FOC) but being operated aggressively and at full speed whenever possible in a real travel/drivecycle situation, will chew up roughly 27.5Wh per mile. This is what both my SNSC 2.0 and 2.3 rigs get and is concurred with by other "honest/realistic" range results for various setups with various types of equipment fitted. Speed does nonlinearly escalate losses, but 25mph isn't that much more and there are other margins and uncertainties here, so let's just call that 30Wh/mile for now. This gives, simplistically, 3750Wh. Again being conservative, we can just call that 4 kWh. This margin in particular might be wise to attribute to the extra mass of the 4 kWh pack that a regular 0.5-1 kWh, 40-60# curb weight rentaloid is not going to have on board which yours will and will increase the losses. But overall this is not a hugely lofty target. It is equivalent to 4 times the stock pack for my 2.3, and that pack is quite manageable. It can easily be fit into a scooter without even any odd bulges or pods mounted externally or the like if you wish; there are many large off-shelf hosts/frames that should easily accommodate that much pack in the deck - typically ones that are used to build up much higher *SPEED* scooters. You won't find the stock production forms of these machines claiming this sort of range, as with the stock setup they will demolish that much energy a LOT faster and get a LOT less of a practical range result due to that pesky nonlinear drag aspect I mentioned earlier. It's more or less a market and community issue/oddity that high endurance/rangey/efficiency optimized scooter builds are very underrepresented for whatever reason. Everyone wants to either go slowly for cheap and be dead quickly, or go fast for not cheap and still be dead quickly, it seems. Even stuff like that SNSC 2.3 of mine (which are rental/commercial scooters) is hard to just *buy* ready made on the civilian market.