Breville - Victoria Espresso Machine PL91T

This is a fantastic deal for what it is! This starter espresso machine will make way better brew than any nespresso; having a grinder is essential to making excellent espresso. However, do not expect this thing to last more than a few years. Durable, life-long espresso machines with an actual copper boiler and PID temperature sensing will last you decades longer than this thermo-block heating machine will, will make espresso on-par with your shop, but they also cost +$800 and don't come with a grinder (i e. Rancilio Silvia, Lelit Victoria). A sub-par grinder (Breville) costs another $200-250 and a good one (Eureka) costs upward of $400, but will last you for life as long as you take care of it. After you fall in love with your Ninja Luxe come over to r/espresso and we'll take you down the rabbit hole of espresso obsession.

Really depends on your budget, how much espresso you make, and how exacting your standards are for espresso. For machines, I have a [Lelit Victoria](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/products/lelit-victoria-espresso-machine?variant=47202796011827&&mkwid=-dc_pcrid__pkw__pmt__slid__product_ESE558L0200&pgrid=&ptaid=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22393451958&gbraid=0AAAAA_OH8D4VGlW8WiRGbmwRf_NoFVpVK&gclid=CjwKCAjwyb3DBhBlEiwAqZLe5O9XO3Di59jCPQ6vW50fXQTLM9F6K1wFE1ZfFBcsNXWvFtklRFzcRhoC3eMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) that I love, but if I was going to spend $1,100 again I would get a [Rancilio Silvia with PID](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/products/rancilio-silvia-pid-espresso-machine?variant=47157151924531&&mkwid=s-dc_pcrid_746603469256_pkw__pmt__slid__product_ESE487L0340&pgrid=179628188362&ptaid=aud-2411026180041:pla-489769728872&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22443229566&gbraid=0AAAAA_OH8D48nqx4CXzSyxDA9PE6k4LPZ&gclid=CjwKCAjwyb3DBhBlEiwAqZLe5DYP2kKS8uz81fE3u1Fat7Bul9HSJdYMxuvlbkxt6S6r6--Qy6REoRoCpnwQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) instead. My friend has a Siliva and those things are simply bulletproof. The PID version just gives you more temperature control, which is nice because lighter roasts taste better at a slightly higher temp. For cheaper machines the [Gaggia Classic ](https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-classic-e24?currency=USD&variant=43085101989942&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=e05a6c770893&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22426966004&gbraid=0AAAAAD_veb-ChGg3fq7taNZ-JKCS2tkRK&gclid=CjwKCAjwyb3DBhBlEiwAqZLe5FTTvjOALufNMzz-H3yKu_gwHPdeeXUrSfN4XE_yHnECqJro8XWidBoCGWQQAvD_BwE)($500) and [Breville Bambino ](https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/products/breville-bambino-espresso-machine?variant=47202749284659&&mkwid=-dc_pcrid__pkw__pmt__slid__product_ESE986J0320&pgrid=&ptaid=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22393451430&gbraid=0AAAAA_OH8D5JO9Ie845iQm3xdritPQHZe&gclid=CjwKCAjwyb3DBhBlEiwAqZLe5JS89aLWkkNf8tyk48WrMpQhXIJolYWnuT8peNTyahwGZmfgS57ZDBoC31wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)($300) are fantastic values, I'm just not a fan of the aluminum thermo-block heating element that Breville uses because it has more temperature variation and is less durable than the copper boiler in the Gaggia. I say it's worth the extra $200, but I also don't have kids to feed. I use my mom and sister's Brevilles and the difference is marginal, especially if you're mixing steamed milk into your drink anyway. As far as grinders anything by the [Eureka ](https://www.eureka.co.it/en/products/eureka+1920/1/1/index.aspx)brand ($300-800) is kind of the gold standard. I have a Silenzio, a quieter version of their more common Classico, but their Zero-dose line is also excellent. Without going down the [rabbit-hole of conical vs flat burrs,](https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1cf0eys/is_there_a_consensus_best_single_dose_grinder/) the Espresso sub loves the [DF64](https://espressooutlet.com/products/turin-df64-gen-2-single-dose-coffee-grinder?variant=40367726428235&country=US¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21147265831&gbraid=0AAAAADwr3ThiEC0CmlUza3Ud-lfpxcsrE&gclid=CjwKCAjwyb3DBhBlEiwAqZLe5NEiOLdynFf2WcWZFMa0sWmnM1gVVrTlKNOU5MJDNnWX4RqG0ibJbhoCMqAQAvD_BwE) ($420), which looks like an excellent bargain considering the specs. Breville makes a passable automatic grinder for $200, however its not the best motor and only has 20 grind settings, making it neigh impossible to fine-tune your grind size (a $50 hand-crank grinder from 1Zpresso would be better in that respect) I swear on r/espresso some people couldn't imagine living without a $2-5k machine with dual boilers (for making multiple steamed milk drinks quickly), in-line water pump, and techy features, plus a $1k grinder. The community there can be a little snobby, but it really is the best place to learn about what machine and grinder would be best for your own budget, use case, and standards.

From espresso quality perspective i would also go with the Lelit, especially with the PID. Non of the other options give you this. But as mentioned above, the key is the grinder, which you need to add on top compared to the philips brand.

Well you say it is refurbished, right? Depends what that exactly means, but let‘s say they checked the pumps, deep clean all pipes and stuff, then yes go for it. Only one thing could be problematic is the lime scale add up in the boiler. But again it depends on what refurbish mean.

Hmm I would look for 2nd hand ECM Casa, they are quite a reliable make, or the lelit with PID (Got it for 200 euro) But you could also find e61 machines 2nd hand in this price range