Stilosa EC260BK

A cheap machine like the DeLonghi Stilosa or ECP can be good if you replace the portafilter, baskets, get a WDT tool, a decent grinder... If it's 120 for the machine, at least that same amount should be spent on a handgrinder and accessories. For you, I'd recommend a KinGrinder P1 grinder for 35€, a Vietnamese Phin dripper, a mokka pot, and replacing the tools you like with newer or improved versions. Trust me, I went from instant coffee to working as a barista for a few months, then back to instant and restaurant coffee, then Dolce Gusto (pods), selfground drip, French press, pour-over, mokka and the latest a DeLonghi ECP 33.21 with a P1 grinder and all the basic accessories with a KinGrinder K6 on the way. It's an expensive hobby.

I would go with an entry level machine like the DeLonghi ECP series or the Stilosa. Then I'd get some of the most useful accessories for it (an unpressurized basket, a good tamp, a bottomless portafilter, a scale with a timer that fits on the machine, a dosing ring, a WDT, or a blind shaker, a puck screen, etc). Let's say 120 for the machine and 120 for the accessories. Perfect for your use case. I know cause I went the same route; Instant, Dolce Gusto and French press, Drip, Pourover, Senseo, Mokka, French press, ...

Why not an actual machine, a grinder, and tools/gadgets/accessories? Pod machines are inferior to real coffee (espresso, pourover, moka, French press). The closest thing I found with acceptable coffee, which imitates a pod machine, is the Philips Senseo. It uses pre-ground coffee in pucks like tea bags, brews between a pourover and drip machine (same 1:15 ratio), and you have 4 size options (single bag, single bag short, two bags and two bags short). No milk frotter, but you can use a separate device for that, even a French press can do. I would still recommend a DeLonghi ECP, Stilosa, or Icona, a few accessories (unpressurized basket, WDT tool, etc), and a decent manual grinder. Consider $100-$200 for the machine, $30-$50 for the accessories, and $35-$120 on a manual grinder, or $200+ on an electric espresso-capable grinder.

The Stilosa should go on sale soon for Black Friday and the EC260 is pretty decent for the price, from Delonghi. Just be prepared to return the Stilosa until you get a good one, I had 2 with failed boilers out of the box out of the 5 I've purchased (I leave em at friends places and feel bad about taking espresso away from them). They make the Stilosa out of EC260 parts as a Black Friday offering, same thing but QC is a bit lower but it's like 30 bucks cheaper so I don't mind. Best Buy sells em and does price match, so I can take it back there for a working one.

The Stilosa should go on sale soon for Black Friday and the EC260 is pretty decent for the price, from Delonghi. Just be prepared to return the Stilosa until you get a good one, I had 2 with failed boilers out of the box out of the 5 I've purchased (I leave em at friends places and feel bad about taking espresso away from them). They make the Stilosa out of EC260 parts as a Black Friday offering, same thing but QC is a bit lower but it's like 30 bucks cheaper so I don't mind. Best Buy sells em and does price match, so I can take it back there for a working one.

Machines in your price range use pressurized brewing. This means they are not sensitive to grind size, work with pre-ground coffee, and don't require extensive "dialing in". However, the quality of espresso they make falls far short of what you can get in a cafe, and may not meet your definition of "solid". Better quality machines brew non-pressurized. These are capable of cafe quality espresso. Their disadvantage is that grind size has to be dialed in to be **exactly** correct. This can only be done when you grind your own beans, and you find the best grind size by trial and error. This doesn't work with pre-ground coffee or inexpensive grinders. The advantage of both of the machines you are considering is that when and if you are ready to take your espresso to the next level, they can be modified to brew non-pressurized. Add a good grinder (which will cost more than these machines), learn how to dial in, and you can make "solid espresso". Of your two machines, I prefer the Stilosa. It uses a boiler which will give it better temperate stability, but at the expense of a slightly longer warm up time. It's also a much more mainstream machine, so online advice on how to use it, as well as aftermarket accessories to brew non-pressurized, will be much easier to obtain. And of course it is less expensive. Tom's Coffee Corner on YouTube has video reviews of both machines, which you should watch before making a decision. In his videos, he describes "advanced mode" which is how to use them to brew non-pressurized. If you really want to get "solid espresso" without mods, you'll need to double your budget and get a Breville Bambino, with a Kingrinder K6 grinder.

Some minor suggestions to improve your table: 1. Stilosa's price did spike up to $150 when US tariffs first kicked in, but more recently stabilized around $100, making Stilosa a great value for the money. It's easily upgradable for non-pressurized brewing. You can also bundle in DeLonghi's ECP series machines, which have similar internals, but better build quality and wider shower screen. 2. The problem with Casabrews (note correct spelling) is the lack of compatible portafilters and other accessories. I would recommend that anyone considering Casabrews get a DeLonghi Stilosa or ECP series instead. 3. The biggest advantage of Bambino Plus over the base model is the 3-way solenoid valve for easier cleanup. For me, this is much more important than the auto-steamer. I've never seen a Plus for $350. Regular price is $500 and it often goes on sale for $400.

Do some research on the difference between pressurized and non-pressurized espresso extraction. Less expensive machines like the ones you mentioned brew pressurized. This allows them to work with pre-ground coffee. However, pressurized brewing puts a low ceiling on the quality of espresso produced. Bambino is one of the least expensive machines that can brew both pressurized and non-pressurized. However, non-pressurized requires a good quality espresso grinder. Trying to brew non-pressurized with pre-ground coffee will be an exercise in futility. Bambino also has better control over brew temperature and pressure, for more consistent shots. That said, if you are starting without a grinder, and have limited funds, I would recommend DeLonghi Stilosa or ECP series as a starter machine. Either one is a much more mainstream machine than the others you mentioned, making it easier to get online advice and to obtain aftermarket accessories. You can start using it pressurized with pre-ground coffee. When you are ready to take your espresso to the next level, you can modify it to brew non-pressurized, usually done by purchasing a bottomless portafilter than comes with a non-pressurized filter basket. Get a good grinder such as Kingrinder K6 or DF54, and you will be able to make espresso nearly as good as you would with a Bambino.

> What do you mean no temperature surfing? Get a Bambino or Bambino Plus, and no temperature surfing is required. Temperature surfing will make a noticable improvement with your other two choices, or any other machine without a PID. > What do you mean no carefully weighing out the beans to 0.001 micrograms? A difference of a fraction of a gram in dose, or a couple of grams in yield, will make a noticable difference in taste. The scale you are suggesting will solve that problem. > What do you mean not raking the grind before tamping? With a good grinder you can skip that step. > But frankly that stuff only matters to espresso enthusiasts. If you don't think your parents won't be able to taste the difference, then don't waste money on an expensive setup. Get them a DeLonghi Stilosa, and let them use it with pre-ground coffee. Cost is CA$130. Then get their feedback on the setup. If they find it too difficult to use, then you just saved a lot of money. If they enjoy the process but would like more consistent or better tasting espresso, and are willing to do more fiddling to get there, then you can confidently progress them to a higher quality setup with a good grinder. To get the benefits of a more expensive setup, your parents have to modify your concept as follows: * Prior to step 1, decide on the recipe for dose, yield and grind size. * Use the scale to grind the proper dose. * In step 7, brew with the scale under under the cup, and stop the pump at the desired yield. * After step 7, taste the shot, and based on the taste, decide how to alter the recipe for the next attempt.

Any of your options require a grinder. Using them with pre-ground coffee will be a waste of money; if they will be using pre-ground get them a DeLonghi Stilosa instead. They won't be able to tell the difference in espresso quality. And the Pannarello steam wand on a Stilosa makes steaming milk simple. But as I replied to your previous post, I think any semi-auto setup is a huge mistake for someone not willing learn how to dial in with precision. If you insist on going down this path, then get them a Bambino or Bambino Plus. Be aware that an "expansion valve" is another name for over-pressure-valve, and all 3 of your choices have one. Having one makes an espresso machine easier to use, not harder.

> is coffee from the bambino worse than the coffee from the express? The brewing component of the Express is very similar to Bambino, and both are capable of great tasting espresso. The difference is the Express includes a built-in grinder which is sub-par in quality. If you pair a Bambino with a good quality grinder it will make better espresso than an Express. However, such as setup will bust your budget. I agree with the previous comment that the best use of your budget would be a Flair Neo Flex with a Kingrinder K6. But if you want an pump machine with a steamer, substitute a DeLonghi Stilosa for the Flair.

Stilosa is very similar to the ECP series machines, with many identical components. Advantage of ECP is better build quality. Are any ECP series machines (besides 3420 and 3630) available to you? If not, Stilosa will be fine.

> I just keep reading the Breville, delonghi, etc are looked down on Not true. Bambino and Bambino Plus are the most often recommended beginner machines in this sub. It's the Breville machines with built in grinders such as the Barista Express and the Impress machines that are looked down on, because their grinders are sub-par. When brewing espresso, the grinder is the most important part of the setup, much more important than the espresso machine. Getting a Bambino or Bambino Plus lets you get a much better separate grinder for about the same price as a combo machine. If you are on a really tight budget, then DeLonghi Stilosa or ECP series are also frequently recommended, but you need to modify them to brew non-pressurized for best results. For a grinder that is sold by WS, get Baratza ESP, Lelit Fred, or Lelit William. All of the other grinders sold by WS should be avoided for espresso. Edit: I just noticed your comment that you want to brew mostly light roasts. These are quite difficult for a beginner to brew properly. They require a top quality grinder for best results. I wouldn't recommend any of the grinders sold by WS for light roasts. > Breville bambino plus but I had an issue using theirs making the puck correct You may need a bit of practice and some YouTube video brewing, but tamping is the easiest part of the espresso making process. I suggest you try again on your family's Bambino Plus. > Also looking at the ones that say they have “cold brew” technology too. An espresso machine isn't the best tool to make cold brew. The best way to make cold brew is in a pitcher or jar, let it soak overnight, then filter out the coffee grounds. There are kits for around $20 to $40 that have all the components you need to do this.

> espresso enthusiasts have no mercy on cheap espresso machines This is totally not true for this sub. There are frequent posts here asking for recommendations for a $200 setup, and we always oblige. Please consider the following: 1. Flair Neo Flex and Kingrinder K6 - $200. If you don't need a milk steamer, this is the way to go. It will outperform electric setups costing hundreds more. 2. DeLonghi Stilosa with bottomless portafilter and Kingrinder K6 - $230. 3. DeLonghi Stilosa with bottomless portafilter and Baratza ESP - $330. Any of these setups is capable of producing cafe quality espresso in the hands of a knowledgeable barista.

Stilosa is pretty alright. I’d personally start there above the other options As the other comment noted you absolutely need an espresso capable grinder to make the best of it. Can probably start with using pressurised baskets tho

Gaggimate Stilosa was very much a goal of mine after I sold my espresso machine It still might be the play if I start finding myself wanting spro

Delonghi Stilosa from John Lewis for £100

Espresso machines would best be run with freshly ground beans etc. That’s $200 for a burr grinder and another $100-150 for a machine like the Delonghi Stilosa. If you’re not looking to nerd out then you can probably get a Delonghi Stilosa or similar $100-150 machine (casabrews, Dedica) and pre ground coffee. It will do ok for a quick coffee though this usually takes around 5 mins per cup for me. It also won’t be anywhere near cafe quality but will be leagues ahead of Nespresso in cost and quality based on my experience. The other option is Nespresso as you said. Not familiar with their product line so can’t comment there.

Love my stilosa!

Espresso at home really goes one of two ways, a super automatic machine you dump beans into and it does the rest, or a new hobby you invest hours and effort into but pays off in the end if you're really into it. You can make a great latte on a secondhand DeLonghi Stilosa you pick up on Marketplace for $50 if you buy a good espresso grinder and good beans to ensure you're starting with a worthwhile product. You really need to put in the energy to learn the machine, make some minor modifications, and do some fiddling with how you time things to get the best results. The Nespresso suggestion isn't the worst if you aren't interested in a new hobby or an expensive super automatic.

I'd get Delonghi Stilosa. Most basic budget machine. and a cheapest Amazon burr grinder. * Stilosa has a boiler, and easy to use. I've had one of these for 15+ years (maybe 20???) and fixed it multiple times. I'm in the Midwest and hard to find a repair shop. So put that into perspective. * Basic burr grinders are very easy to mod and grind finer. * None will break your bank. For latte drinks, you don't have to go wild in price. These basic machines will give you good base for lattes. But as it goes, the more expensive gears you have the better and so much easier to make a drink. Especially if you are a straight espresso shot drinker, with light roast beans, you don't want a cheap machine.