58x

My hot take: Short answer is no. Even as a moderate discretionary expense, it did not represent great value for home use. It's very limited in capability (flat 9 bar, no pre-infusion without plumb-in, don't blather about pre-brew), but it does what it does extremely well. However, unless that is basically brewing a dozen shots back-to-back while steaming milk simultaneously on the regular, I don't see the value. So I installed it at the office, where 20-30 people abused it to the tune of 50+ shots per day and it was a champ. Easiest -- and the most heroically consistent -- with medium/dark italian style spro and milk drinks. On the other hand -- anyone who says the price premium is for the brand/badging alone hasnt looked inside. It is an exquisite piece of intentional and at times clever engineering. From the quality of the fittings and valves to the self-cleaning gicleur and cold water mixing at the grouphead -- this thing will outlive you if it's maintained well. It's just a pity that it seems to lack even basic modern niceties (proper pump pre-infusion, shot timer) There are other annoyances that soured me personally: the La Marzocco Home app and cloud integration is stupid stupid stupid. I mean just stupid. Why do I need the cloud to be able to schedule power on or set the fucking brew temperature? Don't bother, we all know the answer, and it is tragic that marketing dunces convinced someone at La Marzocco that IoTing appliances is a good idea. To add further (perhaps controversial) perspective: I had the LMLM on my bench alongside a Slayer Single, Flair58, and Londinium Vectis. Best in cup (but worst workflow): Flair58 for all roast levels. Next was the Vectis (for medium and light roast coffees), followed very closely by the Slayer. LMLM trailed except for darker italian style ristrettos that explicitly preferred flat-9 extractions. /end rant

Welcome to hell! It’ll be helpful to know any preferences, such as light vs darker roasts, fruity vs chocolate/nuts flavors, tea like vs syrupy textures,etc But in general: - K6 is a great hand grinder. In the cup it’ll do you fine for filter and espresso. At some point you might get sick of grinding manually, but outside of that it’s more than competent. - I hesitate to recommend manual levers to beginners. On the one hand, it’s probably the most intimate way to learn the nuances of extraction theory. On the other hand, it is probably the hardest way to learn. In the cup, manual levers in general (with good temp management) are pretty end game. I legit get the best shots out of my humble Flair58 -- yes, better than the Slayer and the LMLM. Such is the versatility of using your arm to read a shot as it happens and applying whatever pressure/flow you damn well please. - Workflow for the Flair is not speedy. While the modern versions of the F58 feature a passable group heater and the warmup time is decent (on the order of minutes), clean up of the puck screen and pump-n-purge of the brew chamber can get old. Couple that with manual grinding, and you might be asking yourself some existential questions. - If you are interested in milk drinks and medium/darker roast espresso, i would say the Bambino Plus hands down. If you can stretch a little bit, the Infuser is actually a more versatile machine, matching or besting the capabilities of machines that are 10x the cost, simply because you can pre-infuse at 3bar for as long as you damn well please. This makes dial in very forgiving for all roast levels, and super helpful for very light roasts. Steaming ain't great (slow transition, kinda weak) but completely serviceable.

Additionally I would recommend one of the Flair machines with preheating built in. I started trying to get into espresso with a classic flair and all the extra steps before hand just lead to me never actually using it.

39mm classic was always easier and more consistent for me. Shots did not taste inferior at all. However, workflow for multiple shots and cleanup were easier for the 58 (I had 2 shot kits for classic). I split the difference with the stamped 58-49 step down from Sworks and custom tamper from Etsy. My grinder was happier as well (SSP Cast V3 couldn't fully pressurize lighter roasts at chirp for 58mm).

Yeah, the pre millennium la pavonis have more parts limitations and are ancient. I would steer clear of those. Read stephano espresso care for la pavoni/ watch a few videos. My impression of the machine is that it’s dead simple to restore. So if someone is selling a leaking one for $100, you’d probably be able to fix it well enough. A more beginner friendly lever would be the flair 58 (plus or not, all are functionally great — I can vouch for it/see my subreddit flair). But no steam. You could use a bellman steamer on your stove for the 10% of the time you have a cortado if you’re ok with that. But it’s definitely “ritual” territory with all the steps at that point.

Flair 58 if you don’t need steam. It removes the temp management issues from the robot. 9barista is limiting for bean choices— it’s more a lifestyle thing where you trade convenience and repeatability for a specific morning ritual.

Completely different set up. The Jura is a super automatic: press one button and it’s makes you a tasty coffee (that the vast majority of people will be very happy with, myself included). The breville is a semi automatic that happens to have a built in grinder. You grind into a portafilter, level, tamp, insert the portafilter and then brew your coffee. Also probably very tasty for most people but with added variables. Both types require maintenance. VERY important maintenance. I had a super automatic (Saeco) for about 15 years until the control unit died and it was discontinued. Very tasty coffee. But I wanted less maintenance (almost none) and don’t ever drink milk based drinks so I was paying for features that I’d never use. So I got a level machine (flair 58), a nice grinder for less than (niche zero) and a nice kettle (fellow ekg pro) for less than what it would’ve cost to replace my super automatic. I control the grind size, the water temperature and the pressure to make my espresso. Morning coffees are now “more work” but I personally enjoy the ritual while recognizing it isn’t for everyone.

I totally agree. I've had both. The classic is amazing. The 58 is amazing. They are both going to make great coffee. The 58 is just more potential for more money. Classic is the simple good coffee with a more complicated workflow.

Skip the spend. Focus on taste and learning. Grab a manual lever (Flair 58 or Robot). It teaches pressure and temp fast. Run one recipe, change one thing, taste the difference. Skill first, gear later.