Lets' be real here, if you spent time in this sub then you saw the negatives about the z10/giga 10 but you chose to ignore them. I am one of the nay sayers. The Jura E4 makes the same espresso as the z10. Lots of people have talked about the joe app being functional but not practical. No coffee phone apps are practical.
People in this sub are dumb half the z10 ravers don't want to admit they over spent for little performance over a Miele or Kitchenaid, the others rave about it because its bragging about how much they spent, meanwhile the z10 is half the price in most of europe. 95% of the people in this sub act like they are coffee experts swear by Super Creme and their choice of drink is 11 ounces of milk to 1 oz of espresso on a #5 grind. That isn't coffee. They don't get it any of it. They don't even know how to brew espresso. If it makes you feel better the giga 10 is even worse in terms of cheap plastic. I wanted the two hoppers though.
Your post seems more like buyers remorse. If you need help brewing ok espresso all you have to do is set the grinder to the fine setting and watch your ratios. Keep coffee on high strength 1.5oz max for espresso, 4oz max for coffee. If using dark roast keep the temp on low or Med. Hot water will make dark roast harsh.
Your Philips 5500 also has the flat ceramic burr, same as the 800 . A lot of Philips machines have the ceramic flat burr. They are not special and they are quite small. The kitchenaids are quite but the whole machine is insulated for sound. My jura has flat burr ceramic discs, they are not quiet and need a thick towel to muffel them.
You want a ceramic flat disc for a certain flavor profile and they tend to stay cleaner. Grinds on a super auto are not that great anyway so I think it would be difficult for anyone to pickup the nuances between a flat disc or conical grinder. The Jura z10 has a conical grinder while the Giga 10 has flat discs for example. The quietness of it is Philips marketing team getting way over their skiis.
Jura has a 16g max dose. Miele/KitchenAid/Melitta 15g. Gaggia 11g, Delonghi 12g.
I have a semi too and I would never go back to less than 15g dose on a super auto for the serving size alone, then again flavor. I've tried them.
Also no one should pay more than $600usd for a gaggia or at all. They are glorified Philips machines. The steam wand in them (and Delonghi) are under powered, the dose size is too small.
Tom doesn't get into the machines as people think he does. He's spread misinformation too as if Delonghi was paying him. In stead of creating original content he'll remake other old you tube videos.
Chances are you machine is not bad. The larger a puck is with a fine grind the more resistance it has. There's no way the ninja will put out espresso with a 20g fine grind puck. None. My hypothesis anyway. That is where the auto grinder comes in. #1 cause of returns IMHO is from people grinding too finely clogging the machine and having extraction issues. The auto grinder probably helps to stop that by limiting the grind.
My guess is the grinder uses a limited fixed ratio grind setting based on users strength/volume settings. Large latte drinkers would be indifferent to it to poor grind. Latte drinkers with 2 pumps is ninjas target demo. Espresso grinders can either grind for espresso or drip, not both.
You just need to get your feet wet. Get a kf5 or whatever in the insiders pass.for like $600. I have a kf8 and a jura. Not sure if get another jura. Set the machine to the second finest grind, temp low. Then adjust the volume to taste. If you like dark roast try peets espresso forte. Med. Roast Starbucks espresso roast. You just need to get your feet wet. It's great coffee, you save money but not using pods.
89% of the people in this sub are heavy milk drinkers but don't want to admit it. I spent months figuring out why all the "awesome" recommendations like super crema were terrible. Everything is great when it's mixed with 8ounces of milk and syrup Probably like this ninja.
Whirlpool has it. It's like a friends and family discount thing. It came out after I got the kf8. Start a new thread and ask for a insiders pass. You can search for insiders pass too for more information. Jura, KitchenAid/Miele are the best super for black drinks. They have the largest dose size and best grind. You'll get better/larger drinks than the pods even the philips LoR. The KA you can get the best deal on. Espresso needs a fine to extract the nuances under pressure. Most machine will either clog too easily before you get decent espresso or not grind finely enough. Not fine enough with a small dose means weak coffee. If you notice your pods use a fine grind.
I should say the new compact ka machines just came out but people are saying the are the same quality as the full size, same brew unit ect, haven't tried it myself. The kf6-8 are the full size machines.
I mean thats fine, value is realitive. I've got a giga 10 on my counter, it makes ok coffee. Same as the E4 would. I just like to call a spade a spade in terms of Jura's marking and perceived value and why their pricing is the way it is. I got my giga 10 for $2600 maybe when it first came out. I have a kf8 too. Its hard to recommend jura at their current price points.
For a little bit more you get a Jura GIGA 10.
I use in my house a Jura Impresa C5 now for 15 years. And it's running like new. Overall maintenance cost until now: 12000p. I'm very impressed with the quality of Jura.
Indeed I do. Even getting ready to upgrade my manual setup at some point soon. I run a Jura Giga 10 as my daily driver. I upgraded my grinder to a Mazzer Philos last year, which looks funny next to my De’Longhi Dedica. I want to replace that with a Profitec Pro 800.
Z10 has the same milk system as my Giga 10. It rinses itself after each milk drink and recommends a daily deep clean of the milk system. You just have to rinse the draw hose under the sink. I don’t know many people who actually do it daily. Most just run the deep clean every few days. The deep clean is just putting the bucket under the spouts with the cleaner in it, connecting the tube, and pushing the button. It does the rest. I find it super easy to maintain.
The Gaggia is probably going to give you the best quality with the least maintenance if you’re looking for weekly deep cleaning. I don’t think the foam quality will be as good as the Jura but it should still deliver a good drink.
Milk temperature is a regular complaint on all superautos. My best advice is to get double-walled glass cups. They keep the drinks hotter longer than ceramic.
If you’re between those two get the Jura. TK is not known for consistent quality or customer service. Jura customer service can be hard to get in touch with but I’ve found them to be great once you get them on the phone.
I don’t find my Jura to be high maintenance. No, the brew group isn’t easily pulled out for servicing, which is why they recommend you send it in every couple of years. I look at it as an investment because they service the whole thing while it’s in. I’ve started rebuilding older ones for fun, so now I know how to service mine when it needs it.
I know a few people that have Juras and, as mentioned, I rebuild them for fun on occasion. I’ve only found mold in one. It was a Micro 90, which seems to be known for that model type but can be remedied by leaving the drip tray out slightly for air flow. My Giga 10 only gets mold in the drip tray if I don’t empty it for a couple of days.
It depends on the machine. I would be cautious about buying certain brands used, and Philips would be one of those. It could be a good machine but risky. If you find a manufacturer refurbished machine in a brand, those usually carry a warranty but those are usually on your higher end brands. I have a factory refurbished Jura Giga 10. No concerns about buying something like that refurbished.
I don’t think 3 years is unrealistic for something like a Philips. De’Longhi I except to get more out of, definitely in that 5 year range. It depends on how well you maintain it. You’ll find people on here that have had De’Longhis for many years. Most of these machines are repairable if you are handy and can find the parts. I rebuild older Juras for fun. I can spend $100 on parts and a half day working on a 15 year old machine and have it running like new. There are some parts pretty common across brands.
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