J8 twin Diamond Black (Article No 15658)

Edit: We tried the Bosch 500 from Costco, not the 800. The 800 doesn't have the bypass chute.  TLDR: We ended up with the KF8, after getting and returning both a Jura J8, and the Bosch 800.  I'll try to answer since it seems like I was in your shoes a few months ago. I made the switch from a Lelit Elizabeth semi-automatic to a super automatic, with a new born since we never found the time to work on the Lelit with the demands of the baby.  Our requirements were fairly similar; I mostly drink espressos and americanos. The wife likes lattes, one in the morning and one in the evening, both usually oat milk. The other main consideration was, that we switch to decaf usually mid to late afternoon.  We tried the Bosch from Costco. For me, it made okay espressos, not as full in body and crema as the Lelit, but definitely passable, especially in the Americanosn and milk drinks. However, the wife always complained about the milk drinks not being hot enough. The other drawback was that even though it has a decaf bypass, if we made five or six decaf drinks I had to weigh, grind, insert the grounds in the bypass for every single shot. That became too tedious. I also found that the decaf pucks would never be as strong than what came out of the hopper inside the machine. Maybe it was user error since I ground up the coffee myself. Regardless, we under ended up returning it a few weeks later.  My office has a Jura Giga 10 at work, and it makes really good espressos. So, I convinced the life to look at the Juras and we ended up settling on the J8 with the upgraded grinder and sweet foam function. It was definitely more than I wanted to spend, but we figured it would hopefully last for a many years. The espressos were great, the milk temperature was passable, but the sweet foam function was a gimmick. However, I had the same problem with the decaf bypass... Jura also has the J8 twin with dual hoppers but we didn't feel like spending close to 4K. The biggest issue with the Jura was the cleaning after every milk drink. Once you set up the cleaning pipe and the bucket, it's very simple, but to do that after every milk drink was a pain. They also recommended doing a cleaning with their cleaning crystals at the end of every day. I forgot to do it a few times and the next morning I had to take apart the front to really get the dried off milk cleaned up. So back it went to the UPS guy.  So now we come to the KitchenAid. It was not even on our radar but there are like 100 different posts for it, on this subreddit. We ordered it using the insider pass. I had some reservations since the return policy is rather vague and says that they only return unused and new items. So the espresso was very decent... not as complex and rich as the J8,  but definitely better than the Bosch. I've been playing around with the intensity and body settings and have dialed it pretty close to what the Jura made. It's still nowhere close to the Lelit.  However, the pluses make up for any drawbacks. The Insider Pass was almost a 30% discount. I also ordered two extra bean hoppers with lids for a light roast I like and and for our decaf beans. Honestly, this feature alone sold it for me. We have the regular hopper in the morning, I switch it to decaf in the afternoon before my last caffinated drink of the day. At the end of the night, I put back the regular hopper which takes about 5 seconds to change.  For the lattes, it does a pretty good job with oat milk, although some of the high fat oat milk doesn't steam and froth really well. We have settled on Califa Barista edition which works really well. I cannot say anything about the bypass shoot, since I have not tried it. Lastly the cleaning has been super easy after milk drinks. The hose that goes to the milk container just plugs into the drip tray and the machine runs a cleaning cycle.  I'm sure the machine has some drawbacks, which I have yet to encounter. However, when I think about the workflow to make an espresso in the Lelit, I definitely don't miss it anymore after using the KF8 for a month.  All the best to you.  

Something is wrong for sure because my j8 produces wonderful foam and coffee. All my drinks have names below them but different models so that may be. I also don’t think I have the blue light but it’s kinda tucked in between the fridge and microwave so I don’t see the side of the water tank. Minor thing there. Clean the milk frother thoroughly. The smallest obstruction ruins the frothing process. Yes, it’s new. Doesn’t mean something isn’t in there.

Jura j8 twin owner here. That grinder with the decaf in it hasn’t seen much action but I agree that it’s nice to have the option. Worth the money I spent on it just for that convenience? Probably not. Personally I don’t care, I love the machine but if on a budget then I’d find another machine.

I really like the Jura J8. Easy to use, clean, etc. One thing I will say is that if you plan to drink both espresso based and regular coffee drinks OR you occasionally use decaf it would be advantageous to get the twin hopper. I think the Jura latte macchiato is my favorite drink the machine makes and it rivals any local cafe’s lattes. I also make iced lattes and those are great too.

Ya I’m in the same situation and would like 2 hoppers. I have the Delonghi Dinamica Plus and it makes great drinks but I mostly drink decaf and my wife drinks regular. I’m tired of using the bypass chute for every drink and I don’t think it uses as many grounds so drinks from the chute are weaker. I’m getting tired of fiddling with it and spending the extra time measuring out scoops of coffee for a quick drink before heading out to work so I’ve looked at the Rivelia and the J8 Twin. Ideally I’d love to get the J8 twin because you can do regular or decaf or even half caff with the touch of a button but I’m having a hard time pulling the trigger since it is so expensive. Just can’t justify spending 3x what I have or the Rivelia. Rivelia seems like the best affordable option but you still have to switch hoppers and have remaining grounds unless you dump and waste the beans.

Those were your words not mine. Its just a matter of research and testing and actually knowing what you are getting. These machines have high profit margins. You are lost in their made up marketing terms and like I said equate high cost to value, that is actually how you perceive value. The E4 makes the exact same espresso as the z10. They both use conical grinders. The E4 probably makes better espresso because the grinder is more adjustable, same brew unit inside. The more money you spend on these machines the more drinks and "features" you get. Some of the features like the PRG on the z10 is utter BS. iut is software driven and allows jura to try to charge more for a "feature" which is not practical in use. With the giga its just the dual hoppers and flat burr grinders (ginder is no big deal), its not rated for higher duty cycle. The z10 was so pose to be a higher fit and finish but its actually cheap plastic. Jura 100% is screwing the pooch in the US and living off their brand name. Go back and read Jura's marketing terms and think about what they actually mean. They are all BS terms made up to add perceived value. The j8 twin is a better machine than the z10, especially if you can live with not having the auto milk frother thing or the cold extraction. Cold extraction is also a gimmick. Its less flavor, and all they do is lower the heat and slow the flow, but it allows jura to charge an extra $500. things like that.

I'm not sure I understand your point about it being plastic or why you are bringing in Kitchenaid or wanting something that works, maybe you are saying that all super autos are plastic now? Most are yes, but that isn't what we were talking about. The Z series and the giga series prior to the z10 an giga 10 had premium metal finishes. Metal hopper covers, drip trays spouts aluminum shrouds. It was very nice and gave the machine a high end feel, which was the point of Z series, it was the "premium" tier, the fit and finish helped justified the cost. The heavier hopper covers helped with sound reduction too. With the z10 and giga 10, they have increased the price (excluding tariffs), and significantly lowered the fit and finish of the machines for cost cutting and profit maximization. So in this Main post, the OP is displeased with spending $4k+ on a machine and having it be a gigantic hunk of cheap plastic . It is not the "premium" jura USA is advertising. The j8 twin is a good looking machine.

Jura is 90% perceived value that is for sure, now all the jura owners who can't speak critically of their machines will down vote me. Jura makes good coffee, nothing spectacular, certainly not wroth $4k. The z series used to be "premium" with metal cosmetic parts, but now its just cheap. The only difference between the z10 and the j is ice and the auto switching milk frother. The J series actually makes better coffee because the grinder is a little more adjustable than the egrinder. These machines just do the labor for you, you still need to learn how to brew espresso which it sounds like you haven't. Super Auto inherent limitations make it easy as you basically go on the finest or 2nd finest grind, all coffee beans all the time, then you adjust the length to taste. The sooner you get past the rage the sooner you'll start to enjoy the machine especially if you are stuck with it.

Coming from Manuel espresso you’re gonna want something that taste similar I assume and to me the only one is JURA. The DEE is easier to operate, but the drink seemed a little weak to me. I would go with a Costco JURAR refurbished J8J8 twin or Z 10.

If you also want a Macchiato or Cappuccino all now and then, I'd go for a full automatic. If so, I can recommend the Jura J8 or even J8 Twin.

If you also want a Macchiato or Cappuccino all now and then, I'd go for a full automatic. If so, I can recommend the Jura J8 or even J8 Twin.