Philips - Classic Evo Pro (RI9380/48, RI9481/20, etc.)

If you were to save up a few extra quid, you could grab a niche zero grinder and a gaggia classic (Classic Evo Pro 2024 or Classic Pro E24 if you want new). The niche zero is a modern coffee grinder that has basically blown away the competition. Most other grinders are going to be much bigger or cost a lot more. The gaggia classic has a huge fanbase about it and there are lots of mods and upgrades if you like to tinker but this set-up will easily last you 10-20 years until you decide to spend stupid money on something [decent](https://decentespresso.com/overview) IMO if you go for anything less than this, you will be back within 2 years asking about which machine/grinder to upgrade to Edit: you could go full manual espresso if you want cheaper but the workflow is going to be much slower, you won't be able to do multiple drinks back to back and you lose the ability to do proper milk-based drinks

I love that grinder, pairs with a gaggia pro evo... I love to push the portafilter in twice and have a preset grind and duration fill it.

Is a $200 SK40 a “good grinder”? Serious question. Purchased it 2 years ago along with my Gaggia classic evo. Been making cortados daily while wondering if my coffee is good or not. Nothing to compare it to and diluting with milk which makes it even harder to tell.

Delonghi Dedica Arte ($200) expandable with Breville Smart Grinder Pro ($350). Great beginner setup if you don't want to break the bank. Can also buy your beans pre-ground but that's less tinkering to dial everything in (still fine). Breville Barista Express ($600) for a solid all in one. Otherwise if you have some more money to spend. Gaggia Evo Pro ($800) paired with a Vario Baratza Encore ($300) or a Vario VS3 ($450).

I had a second hand gaggia classic for the longest time before it died, and my household ended up drinking mostly pourovers, so I got the Dedica incase I really wanted an espresso and it's held up really well. I'm a fan of the separate grinder options, purely because it's just a little more convenient to do non-espresso methods.

I’ve had the Evo for about a month now and found my groove about 2 weeks in. I thought the warm up time would be an issue but I just turn it on before I do anything in the morning and it’s good to go by the time I get back to it. The frothing was the biggest learning curve but finally got it figured out. Turn the steam switch on, wait 10 sec, purge the water out of the wand into a cup then it’s ready to froth. If you need another milk drink shortly after you can refill the boiler by running plain water without a porta filter. My wife isn’t interested in learning so I just make it for her, was the same with the drip coffee machine we had so no difference there. I’m not trying to make this my hobby, just a way to get a better tasting cup of coffee in the morning and it’s doing just that. My biggest issue is dialing in the grind and puck prep

I know about "Boilergate". But a simple search even a young child can perform, will point out **exactly** which serial numbers to avoid. I agree that the E24 with its slightly bigger brass boiler is far superior in all respects, but if you find a "safe" Evo, you'll be fine. I live in country with very limited distribution for Gaggia - we're typically flooded with the cheaper Australian and Chinese alternatives - I've had my Evo now for almost 3 years and during my installation of my GM Pro, I decided to open up my boiler to check on all the flaking that's happening inside and to my utter surprise, it looks brand new! It should be very easy to replace with a brass boiler when it eventually does start flaking (and hopefully I'll be able to source one locally by then)!

I agree 100%. Get yourself the GCP. It makes awesome espresso. You might want to upgrade the stock filter baskets though. Just upgrading the baskets will already see a significant jump in shot consistency. While you're at it, get bottomless portafilter too, so you can fit the larger baskets (if that's your thing). I had my GCP for over a.year before I went ahead with the GaggiMate Pro mod. I completed my mod only a month ago and have never looked back! It's not only a huge upgrade, but the (Discord) community is awesome!

Do you think it would be worth to upgrade from A Gaggia Evo Pro to Lelit with PID controller? My gaggia is working just fine. I have a gaggia RM-15 crusher to go with it and have Normcore tamper and leveller tools. Or should I wait for a few years and go for La Marzocco which I don’t have the budget for yet.

I bought mine I think in 2023, the evo model. Went through the boiler gate stuff and unfortunately I'm still rocking a coated boiler. After installing gaggiuino it is simply a different machine. No more temp surfing. No more guesswork. All relevant measurements (pressure, temperature, time, flow) are all provided. I don't think I could go back to the OG machine at this point. I do think the boiler gate, while the coating may not have direct health effects, has affected the brand's reputation, at least in the states. I'm hoping to get the newer brass boiler in the future.

I’ve been using an unmodded Evo Pro for a few months now and am generally pulling great shots with a medium roast espresso blend. Where I’ve struggled is in dialing in single origin, lighter roasted beans, and I’m hoping the GaggiMate kit I should have soon makes the machine consistent enough for me to figure out where I’m going wrong. So if you like a more traditional style of espresso, you can absolutely have fun with an unmodded machine and add a PID if/when you hit limitations it would fix. The switchover to steam is pretty quick, but just remember that the GCP has a positively tiny boiler so you won’t actually have that much steam volume or power to work with. It’s enough, but just.

> Gaggia classic or classic pro (not sure of difference yet) This is the highest quality machine at your price point, but the hardest to use since it lacks a PID. But if you are handy, you can upgrade it for PID or go all the way with Gaggiuino or GaggiMate and it will have most of the features of a $4000 DE1Pro. If you want a machine that will work better out of the box, get Bambino or Bambino Plus. Regarding the differences: * Gaggia Classic was the OG, made from 1991 to 2018. * Gaggia Classic Pro, made from 2019 to 2022. Added a pro-style steam wand, replacing the Pannarello wand in the Classic. * Gaggia Classic Evo Pro, made in 2023. Used a teflon coating in the inside of the boiler that was supposed to reduce scaling. Instead, the coating flaked off with use, creating the "Boilergate" scandal. Stay away from this one. * Gaggia Classic E24 (sometimes called Pro E24 or Evo E24) made from 2024 on. Replaced the coated aluminum boiler with an uncoated brass one. If buying new, get the E24. Its brass boiler has better thermal stability than the aluminum one used in previous versions, which reduces the need for temperature surfing.

> Gaggia classic or classic pro (not sure of difference yet) This is the highest quality machine at your price point, but the hardest to use since it lacks a PID. But if you are handy, you can upgrade it for PID or go all the way with Gaggiuino or GaggiMate and it will have most of the features of a $4000 DE1Pro. If you want a machine that will work better out of the box, get Bambino or Bambino Plus. Regarding the differences: * Gaggia Classic was the OG, made from 1991 to 2018. * Gaggia Classic Pro, made from 2019 to 2022. Added a pro-style steam wand, replacing the Pannarello wand in the Classic. * Gaggia Classic Evo Pro, made in 2023. Used a teflon coating in the inside of the boiler that was supposed to reduce scaling. Instead, the coating flaked off with use, creating the "Boilergate" scandal. Stay away from this one. * Gaggia Classic E24 (sometimes called Pro E24 or Evo E24) made from 2024 on. Replaced the coated aluminum boiler with an uncoated brass one. If buying new, get the E24. Its brass boiler has better thermal stability than the aluminum one used in previous versions, which reduces the need for temperature surfing.

If you like Gaggia, don't get the Evo. It has the coated boiler that flakes off AKA "Boilergate". Get the latest model Gaggia Classic E24. Breville Bambino Plus is usually priced about the same as the 840 but is a more modern design. Anna is a great quality machine but has slower warm up and longer transitions between brewing and steaming than Breville. You can't go wrong with any of these choices as long as you get E24 instead of Evo.

> I just found about heat exchangers. And that with these you can have immediate spontaneous coffee. This is not true. Most HX machines have E61 groups which need 30 to 45 minutes to warm up. When you said "heat exchanger", I think you meant "thermoblock". Breville/Sage machines such as Bambino warm up in just a few seconds. Better quality thermoblock machines such as Ascaso take a bit longer but are still ready to go in a few minutes. Boiler machines with smaller boilers such as Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, and Silvia Pro X warm up in about 10 minutes. At your budget I suggest Bambino Plus. That will leave you enough budget to get a really nice grinder. Jura and other fully auto machines are easy to use (just push a button) but the espresso they make is much inferior to what you can make with a properly dialed in semi-auto machine and grinder. If you want to go down this path, check out r/superautomatic.

Reading between the lines of your post I can see that you already know the answer: If you are 100% sure you are going to do GaggiMate or Gaggiuino, then get a Gaggia Classic, otherwise get an Anna and be happy with its PID. If you are going for Gaggia, it might make sense to get a used one, since you will be discarding many of its components for the mod.

> Bambino Plus for us to cut our teeth on or go for the Gaggia Classic for the better experience? You have it backwards. You will cut your teeth on the Classic due to its lack of PID and volumetric controls. You will get a better experience with a Bambino Plus due to its better temperature control. You can program the shot buttons for the approximate water volume needed for the kids, and brew manually yourself for the best tasting espresso.