Philips - Classic (pre-2009 model)

I have a gaggia classic pro with PID. Would this be a significant upgrade? 

Ok that's an interesting point. MY gaggia is fully modded with a PID etc.. How quick is it to make multiple drinks on the fellow given it's not a dual boiler? Does it take a while to go from shot to steaming?

This is exactly how I feel. I’m totally satisfied with my modded Gaggia, performs great and I like my workflow. Maybe would upgrade someday just for fun, but have no reason to. 

For that budget I'd seriously consider looking for used machines, then buy something like a DF54 to go along with it. Marktplaats has tons of machines available at any given time, things like Gaggia Classics, Rancilio Silvias and Quick Mill 820 and 3000 are always quite available. You'll need to inform yourself what to watch out for for any given machine, but that's quite manageable. Accesories are also much cheaper second hand (sometimes people sell them with their machines), and it's not exactly like a knock box or tamper will deteriorate a lot over time

Used Gaggia Classic with the Gaggimate mod (I know, biased), plus a Kingrinder K6. If you want a slightly more polished OOBE, maybe a Bambina Plus and an Encore ESP. Leftover budget in both cases can go towards accessories (tamper and scale at least) and nicer coffee

So my husband and I have two espresso setups. I worked as a barista when I was in uni, so I'm more bothered about coffee. My husband likes my coffees, but he's not bothered enough to go through the 'proper espresso' steps when I'm not home. In the kitchen I have a modified gaggia classic (£500 new). I use locally roasted whole beans coffee (£8-12 per 250g). I stick it through a DF54 single dose grinder (£180 new). I use a cheap dosing funnel, tamper, WDT tool, and scale (all cheap via AliExpress). I stick it through a bottomless portafilter with a non-pressurised single wall basket. I froth milk in a cheap milk jug with a proper fully manual steam wand. This makes coffee that is on par or better than coffee from specialty coffee shops. - My husband (who WFH) has a much more simple and cheap setup in 'his' home office. He uses regular supermarket preground coffee (£2.5-4 a bag). He sticks it through a stock Delonghi Dedica (£160-180, using the portafilter and pressurised basket that comes with it. He doesn't weigh his coffee or his shots, just scoops it out and tamps it straight from the jar with the plastic scoop/tamp tool that comes with it. He steams milk with the 'semi automatic' steam wand that comes with the delonghi - it doesn't take any skill or knowledge to steam milk with it. This makes coffee that is better than Nespresso, miles better than Macdonald's/Greggs, and still better than Pret/Nero/Starbucks/Costa. But not as good as a proper speciality coffee shop (or mine from my kitchen setup). - If you don't know about espresso, I'd get a machine like the Delonghi Dedica (or the Bambino) - it's quite cheap, small, makes better espresso than coffee chains, and you can still get the upgrades and grinder later if you want to 'up your game'.

The gaggimate only looks as ugly as you want it to look. There are a lot of housing options for the displays made by the community, most look better than the housing for sale on the gaggimate store. There are also options for smaller screens, but it only supports round displays for now. There is also an option not to have a display at all and just use the buttons on your machine as you usually would, and set up the profiles from you phone. Personally, I'd still take a modded classic machine from pre 2014 with a gaggimate or gaggiuino, as it offers more than the gaggia up does, like profile building, flow and pressure control, brew by weight. I understand that modding a machine and various profiles is a bit of a faff and too nerdy for most people, and that the up offers a machine for the customer who just wants a machine that makes an espresso without having to take up a whole new pointless hobby of espresso machine modding, but i think for that customer, the profitec go is the better option, every part of it is easy to fix, source/replace.

I would trow in a single boiler pid controlled is way more practical . The heatup time is phenomenomly better than a dual boiler and its far more effi iebt staying at the temparature. A gaggia used and a gaggimate upgrade is still budget king imo. Givinen spareparts and so on

The DF64 is supposed to be good. I would personally want a machine w an adjustable PID, even a modded Gaggia Classic, before dual boiler, which just allows me to make milk and coffee at the same time? Not familiar with breville but can you adjust the temperature ? Any machine needs a good warm up 15 minutes to fully warm the portafilter and brew group so I don’t know how you can avoid that unless you want to use the dual boiler to make your milk stuff before pulling espresso shots? Doesn’t the Profitec go have adjustable PID? I don’t know about you, but I have to tweak the temp to get clarity out of light roasts

This machine isn’t for me. The toggle switches and drip tray look ugly. I prefer my stainless drip tray. My shades gauge, my own PID, my shot timer from brew better. My one hole steam tip from shades and my Normcore tamper. My shades of coffee valve. But they finally upgraded the tamper! Anyways if I needed a new machine I would get this only if it was cheap. The e24 is about perfect and I have all the mods already.

Yeah mine is prone to rust (built 1999 as well) but it had rust when I got it and i just used some rust converter. I may get it sandblasted at some point and powder coated.

I have one from 1999. It's a beast. Never skips a beat.

I mean if you want to make two milk drinks back to back with a Gaggia unmodded, you will have diminishing quality. I owned a Classic for almost 3 years and you really start to lose temp stability just moving from “just pulled a shot” to “steaming milk”. If you host two guests and make that 4, you’re cooked. That’s really the main draw for higher end machines: life cycle + temp stability under volume + ability to tinker with temperatures and pressure profiling.

I think what OP is alluding to is temperature stability. The Gaggia unmodded swings between more than 10c between boiler on and off and so even with temp surfing the temperature are vastly different. You can definitely taste the difference between a brew at 88 and 98c. And so yes, in this case I really do believe OPs shots taste different. I experienced the same going from the Gaggia without a mod to the Gaggimate mod installed. The taste improved significantly

I think what OP is alluding to is temperature stability. The Gaggia unmodded swings between more than 10c between boiler on and off and so even with temp surfing the temperature are vastly different. You can definitely taste the difference between a brew at 88 and 98c. And so yes, in this case I really do believe OPs shots taste different. I experienced the same going from the Gaggia without a mod to the Gaggimate mod installed. The taste improved significantly