Profitec - Pro 800

My routine is fast. Machine is warmed up before I wake up. I have a premium grinder that doses fluffy grounds directly in the PF by weight within 6 sec., tap-tap-tamp, insert and pull the spring lever, release (steam at same time if needed). Cortado ready within 60 seconds. Knock, rinse, wipe & done with clean-up 15 seconds more. If your toddler is cranky then repeat the process a second time. 😆 Great shots without a fuss. No weighing spraying beans, no dose cup, funnel, WDT, screens, etc. Just amazing extractions. Profitec Pro 800 (direct plumbed) & Eureka Atom W65

Just read this thread and now I’m invested 😆 Did you replace your Londinium? I’m a lever fan (Profitec P800 plumbed in) and would be tough to consider going back to a pump driven machine. I do like Profitec though. Thanks

The Profitec 800 uses the one of the most popular lever groups. Easy to get parts for and is used on several commercial machines. It weighs 17 lbs so it takes a long time to heat up that much brass, but easily solved with a smart plug/timer. The [Rocket R9 One](https://rocket-espresso.com/products/domestic-models/r-nine-one) isn't a lever unless I've got the wrong model.

I'm like you, I'm into more Italian style espresso. No shade at the SOUP-lovers or people cranking their OPVs down to 3 bar, I just enjoy lighter roasts more as pourover and keep my 'spro on the medium to medium dark side with traditional pressure ranges. Going to give you flyer recommendations. When you want "dead simple" in a machine, there's different ways to interpret that - lots of knobs, but offering automation (like a Decent), or go for no options whatsoever. A Profitec Pro 800, for example. You're not going to be messing with OPVs, programmable pre-infusion, pressure or flow profiling, or anything like that. Just pull. It's PID controlled and doesn't even use a pump when it's plumbed. IMO don't put the filter as a requirement of the espresso machine. You can easily plumb the output from a filtration system, using a pressure booster if necessary.

I picked up an LP from 1996 for $400 and now I use it way more than my $2k Profitec.

I would go with a profitec pro 800. You already know you like lever machines. Going with high tech seems like a step backwards to me. L

Yeah, Personally, I think the most forgiving dial-in -- and most versatility -- comes with hybrid spring levers. The pump pre-infusion, the ability to decide when to release the spring (based on time-to-first drip, basket fill-rate, etc), and the ability to modulate pressure by manipulating the lever -- all these let you adapt to a shot and gives you a good intuitive sense of where to adjust grind/dose, all in real-time. Yes, it's a manual process. I personally think it's easier (and more fun) than *programming* a machine at the crack of dawn. But, YMMV. That said, some Thoughts and Feelings ^(tm) about machines: **Bezzera Strega** - My personal runner-up, great value for money - But, requires some tinkering IMHO: - Fairly temp stable but needs a PID (fairly straightforward) - No OPV for pre-infusion; Ulka vibe pump is duty cycle limited to 11bar, which is too high for my tastes. I would prefer to replace the pump and install an (adjustable) OPV - no exhaust solenoid. Some crazy nut installed one, though, with a button no less! **Nurri Leva** - Well, I ordered one :P - Caution: uses La San Marco (55mm) grouphead. A dearth of accessories. **Londinium R24** - The original hybrid spring lever. - Incredible in cup - clumsy engineering and janky manufacturing. relies heavily on a british contract CM that is...not robust. **Profitec Pro 800** - A really well-executed dipper - A bit pricey? Lack of pump pre-infusion is unfortunate given cost - You can plumb in, but pre-infusion still limited to boiler pressure **Londinium Vectis** - Compact dipper style spring lever - great in concept, fast heat-up time - limited shot volume, needs lower doses, thin on body, great in-cup, small boiler which is moderate levels of ass-pain to re-fill. - launched during pandemic, has the QA woes to show for it. recent iterations have improved many of the issues plaguing it (defective grouphead casting, self-destructing pstats), but again relies on a contract CM that is not keeping up. **Odyssey Argos** - Spring or direct lever dipper style - Best bang for the buck of all time? - Basically unobtainium due to huge popularity/lead time. - temp stable via PID control of boiler pressure, comes at the expense of steam stability (but you don't care about milk steaming) - pain in the ass to re-fill the boiler - Very clever air bleed system enables multi-pull Fellinis to increase shot volume, without destroying the puck.

What is your budget? The profitec pro800 and the flair neo are both lever machines but are completely different beasts.

Because unlike those two the pro800 still seems somewhat reasonably priced at <€3K. But more importantly the point is that lever machines can vary so much depending on the budget that a blanket comparison to semi autos is all but useless. Direct or indirect lever, steam or no steam function… the variation in lever machines is just so large.

If you already have a good grinder, get something versatile that doesn’t break the bank. When you start making espresso at home, You might learn that you like/dislike certain aspects of espresso machines and might want to upgrade/sidegrade later on. If you want reliable and versatile a Profitec or ACS will certainly not be a terrible decision. Do you need a dual boiler? It’s really only important if you host a lot or absolutely NEED to steam while pulling your shot. They do often come with higher energy costs and longer heat up times (not always though).

I actually considered that machine. I decided against it since it takes forever to heat up and it is fairly large (at least compared to the Vectis). If that doesn't bother you, it looks like a great machine. Or have a look at the Vectis, it is designed around being serviceable by yourself since they don't have a network of resellers. It heats up faster and is smaller. The guy who designs them is very active in the Forum and really helpful. So far I am super happy with it. Downsides are imo just the fairly small water tank and the Drip tray finish not holding up with the rest of the machine (the welds look kind of rough). But that's not visible from the outside. Also it has TOO MUCH steam power, if set at high bar. as funny as it sounds, I had to switch the steam tip for one with only two holes or I couldn't get milk frothed properly. It's a pit pricey outside of the UK, but still a good bit cheaper than the 800.

I think I’m going to end up with a Move too. But I just ordered the P80 first to pair with my BBE and see how that goes.

I’m a little confused by your post. My lever (Profitec 800) is about the easiest machine possible. But if you want to tinker on weekends, you’d want a full on Londinium lever.

Why I have a lever: years ago I was standing in a cafe in a very small town somewhere in Puglia. The bartender didn’t seem to care much about the espresso he was making for two tourists. I watched as he prepped and pulled from the large lever machine while talking to his coworkers. I whispered to my then gf, “this is going to suck” How wrong I was. It was the best espresso of a three month Italian trip. A lever is way more forgiving. It’s also quiet and low maintenance. People are using machines made in the 1950’s! I’ve had my Profitec for 5 or 6 years. I’ve replaced the group head seal (with silicone) and I replaced the vacuum breaker valve. In hindsight, I could have just cleaned it and replaced the o-ring. That’s it.

I replaced mine years ago with silicone seals (only because I needed a silicone group head seal at the same time and wanted to save on postage). That was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. There are three piston seals btw.

Indeed I do. Even getting ready to upgrade my manual setup at some point soon. I run a Jura Giga 10 as my daily driver. I upgraded my grinder to a Mazzer Philos last year, which looks funny next to my De’Longhi Dedica. I want to replace that with a Profitec Pro 800.