Rancilio - Silvia

I'm an espresso nerd. My previous machine was an original Silvia. When it came time to refresh my equipment, I seriously considered getting a Barista. They're convenient, have quick heat-up times, and from the reviews I've read, they can pull a good shot. I ended up getting a Silvia Pro instead, but I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy with a Barista as well.

Ok, the rabbit holes are r/espresso and r/coffeestations Also do a search in OzBargain So what is your budget? Are we talking about $500 for machine and grinder Or $800 for machine and grinder Or $1300 for machine and grinder Or even $3000? Anyway, I started with Delonghi Dedica with hand grinder Then the hand grinder upgraded to baratza sette 270 Then machine upgraded to rancilio v6 Been in this combo for a few years and happy to stay as it :-)

Rancilio Silvia (non-PID) here that has been under daily use with 3-6 extractions per day or the past six years and only have had to do the normal maintenance routine on the group head (screen and gasket). Went with the Rocky grinder too that has been flawless.

This. My Rancilio Silvia is 6.5 years old and pulls at least 4 shots per day (around 10k total lifetime shots). Only after several years I had to do a group head tune-up kit ($30, replaces seal and screen). It is paired with a Rocky Grinder of the same vintage.

The advantages of a lot of built in grinders is, that they are conical, have a wider particle distribution and are way easier to dial in. If you do mostly milk drinks, that is a huge plus without much downsides. IF you like nerding out and clarity, it's not that great a deal but still not terrible if you just start out. Since that 600-700 bucks is a lot of money for you guys (as it is for most of us), I would recommend maybe looking into machines that last a long time and are easily repairable. Like a refurbed Rancilio Silvia, kind of a legendary machine and they last forever. Most appliance like machines, like Breville and Ninja don't have the best track record in regards to longevity and service. Here in Germany the Silvias go for around 300 used. You will read that you need to temperature surf with that machine but it's so easy, you'll learn it in like 10 minutes. So going by European prices, you could get a Silvia and something like a Eureka Mignon or Baratza Encore ESP for your budget. That would set you up for a very long time. I bet there's still Silvias from twenty years ago that still pull every day espresso. There are "traditional" espresso machines (easy setup, last forever) with grinders, but the grinder usually sucks (I am happy if someone has a good recommendation here though).

For what it's worth, with the never versions of the Silvia, temperature surfing apparently is a lot easier. With mine it's as simple as purging water until the heating lamp turns on and then pulling your shot the moment it turns off again if you want around 93 degrees and wait for around 1-2 seconds for every degree you want it hotter. I use that water to heat up my cup so it's really a non issue. The Pro version is a dual boiler machine so it's going to be more expensive but at least here in Germany, it's one of the cheaper dual boilers at around 1500€.

With your preferences, get a Ranciliio Silvia. It's an incredibly sturdy machine with a steam wand like the ones from professional machines. It also uses super solid, shop type portafilters. If you buy used, you can get a decent used grinder for the rest. Only thing to look out for used, is rust under the drip tray. The machine requires a bit of a hands on puling routine because it doesn't have a PID but your post sounds like you can handle that not problem (it's very easy anyways, just time your shots based on the heating light).

Depends on what is important to you.  Fast heat up, looks, PID, easily adjustable pressure, longevity, repairability, size, the actual process of making the shot? If you want a long lasting machine and like tinkering, you would probably go for a Silvia or a used ECM or something similar. If you want a really nice looking machine and only drink espresso, you might end up with a ECM puristika. Want the most bang for the buck, you will probably end up with a modified Delonghi Dedica or your machine. I went the used ECM route (Classika 1 for 500€, absolute bargain). And there are differences in shot quality, but I don’t think they are purely price related and certainly one could argue that a lot of people have a way better machine than they could ever make use of. It’s a hobby for a lot of people so they like to treat themselves.

I was almost there too. Couldn't decide between the You, Dalla Corte Studio and Nurri R-Type. In the end, I decided to mod my dad's old Silvia and get myself a nice lever machine for the purist in me. The insane consistency and absolute control over every parameter is really nice with programmable machines. I find myself pulling a lot of lever shots though. Kind of magical.

I have Gaggimate on my Silvia. Imo getting anything other than a modded Silvia or Gaggia short of a Decent is not worth it, except if you want something very specific, like a spring lever or a specific look.  The breadth of adjustments, repeatability and functionality is nothing short of astonishing.   Gaggiuino is even more packed with features, but it’s closed source and imo Gaggimate is a bit more fun to dive into.   I would recommend not getting a hand grinder for that many espresso a day. 

What else short of a Decent do you think could hold its own against a Gaggimate/Gaggiuino modded machine? I had half a dozen machines so far, including high quality E61, direct lever and spring lever machines and the only thing I would consider were a Meticulous, but that's not a great idea for op, who does mostly milk drinks.

[My little espresso station.](https://preview.redd.it/f9tlacowfl9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c22a50c7a072d696f18aec30866136c3cae24b05) **The Quick Mill Pop Up / 3 Kilos in** TL;DR up front: A great machine with some annoying (because easily preventable) caveats. Right out of the box, the machine looks great. I love the design and form factor. Setting it up is very easy, and using the sideways water tank is a treat. I love how quickly it heats up and how many functions they packed into it. That, paired with the good build quality, gives you a really compelling machine at the price. I think the Profitec Go beats it in build quality and finish, so does the ECM Classika (at a heftier price point), which also offers a lot more functionality, especially if you upgrade it. Pulling the first shot was very easy to do, and only steaming milk is much more tedious than it would have to be if they only changed the steam wand (again) and the steam knob. Now, let’s get into it.  After a really stressful year and having dealt with some bullshit I wish on no one, I decided to treat myself to a new espresso machine.  So a month ago, after a lot of milling around, and a lot of consideration and trying out different machines in person in different stores, I decided to buy a Quick Mill Pop Up (Lucca Tempo in some parts). I drink a mix of espresso and cappuccino, sometimes my wife wants a cappuccino too. Based on that, I was looking for a machine that would have the following features in descending order of importance: PID.  Fast heat up (for a boiler machine). Good steam power. A design that I would enjoy looking at every morning. Option for pre-infusion. Some way to play around with pressure. Repairable locally. Local dealer. Doesn’t break the bank (but that was more a bonus than a must). **Based on that, I had a look at the Pop Up at a local store and got it the next day.** **The pros:**  1. Looks great. I love that angular chrome design language and the simple UI layout in the front. The lights of the menu and the buttons are really nicely integrated into the whole design. 2. Fast heat up. Like ready in 7 minutes fast. Which is great for boiler machines.  3. PID. Seems really stable shot to shot. Even when playing around with a new roast for a while, it still seems to be really on point. 4. Easily adjustable overpressure valve that allows for playing with pressure during the shot.  5. The build quality is great. It’s a super solid machine that won’t have you worrying about anything breaking (maybe except the steam valve/knob). That also goes for the insides. The internal layout is so good, I would feel confident in repairing the machine myself, if no welding was involved. 6. The drip tray is great. It’s very well built and has a small lip that goes into the machine (for the OPV). There’s no sharp corners that feel unpleasant, it doesn’t get hot (hello Rancilio Silvia) and it’s pretty voluminous (hello again Rancilio Silvia).  7. The sideways water tank is amazing. Not only does it allow for really easy access, it also kind of locks in, thanks to the silicone hoses holding it, without the risk of it falling out when refilling, when you stop at those hoses. It being sideways and see-through also means you always know when you need to refill.  8. Pulling a shot is a really snappy process with buttons that feel super tactile and react immediately. 9. Doesn’t use a lot of energy. I measured an average of 0.06 kWh from a cold machine to having pulled the first espresso and 0.9 kWh from cold to a 150ml cappuccino. 10. Rather compact. Fits on my counter really well. Doesn’t feel small or too light though. So the form factor is perfect for me. 11. It’s really quiet for a vibration pump machine. Their muffler seems to work very well. Pulling Espresso is a really pleasant experience that leaves little to be desired. However, there are some cons, most of them having to do with the whole steam assembly. So let’s have a look at those. **Cons:**  **First and foremost,** and excuse me if I go on a bit of a rant, but this annoys me to no end\*\*:\*\* Everything about the steam assembly, from the design of the wand and the knob to the height and the awkward placement of the wand in relation to the OPV paddle, SUCKS. SO. MUCH. Especially since all of those things could have been avoided with not much hassle.   I fucking hate steaming on this machine. It’s so bad I am almost tempted to sell it again if I can’t mod it (I am pretty sure I can though). The newer steam wand is bent a bit backwards instead of forwards, so tilting the pitcher to get a good swirl going is unnecessarily difficult and awkward. It’s also rather short, so you have to be very selective with your pitcher and milk amount, if you don’t want to waste milk. The over-pressure valve and the steam wand are in each other’s way, so you have to be on either side, and they often catch, and you have to move the wand around the valve paddle. And worst of all: The twisting valve/knob is a terrible design. It’s essentially, like most steam handles, a faucet knob, but it’s round and smallish, so it’s hard to get purchase. It’s also unpleasant to use, since there is a groove milled around the whole circumference that kind of pinches your fingers. There’s a reason every faucet lever ever is either, well, a lever, or wavy, like old-school E61 valve handles, or triangular, or it has grooves through in depth, not circumference, to allow for purchase. If your hands get even a little wet while pulling your shot, you are probably going to slip while trying to open or close the steam valve. Why oh why? It’s so unnecessary! Just make it wavy or triangular or something. Seriously, next time you use a faucet, imagine having a small round knob there instead of whatever you have. Oh, and I had to fasten it thrice already. It keeps rotating without activating the steam after a couple of weeks. Moving on: 1. Adjusting the OPV is not flow control. It’s similar, but you can’t just push it back and forth and expect it to react immediately. If you go down too fast, it will trip the OPV (not the solenoid) in a way that it takes a while to get up to pressure again. 2. The shot timer turns off immediately after you stop the shot. So you will often miss how long your shot was if you are preoccupied with something else. That also seems like such an unnecessary negative. 3. The OPV handle is bent in a way that you have to grip it sideways on the Pop Up (not on the Tempo), which feels kind of odd. 4. The finish isn’t quite there. Some of the corners feel and look rough, especially at the meeting of the drip tray and the machine and around the steam handle and the OPV lever. I had to use a screwdriver to align the panels on the left side of the machine. The pressure gauge on the front just looks kind of cheap. Plus the steam handle feels like low-quality wood. I am also not a fan of random wood accents that don’t follow the rest of the design language. 5. The menu is odd. Why is the PID menu situated AFTER the option to switch between Fahrenheit and Celsius? How often do they think people adjust that? 6. The pre-infusion works without the machine’s pump and dispenses around 20ml of water. Way too little to saturate almost any puck. The cheaper Quick Mill Pop uses its pump for that. A much better solution. 7. Parts availability. It is unnecessarily hard to find parts. Somehow the Quick Mill homepage is a mess and trying to find out that all regular Quick Mill E61 portafilters and baskets fit took way too long to find out. However, I did buy the bottomless portafilter for Quick Mill E61 and it is amazing. Super well built and it looks gorgeous. For anyone wondering. The portafilters with the ears at 9 and 6 seem to be good generally. My Rancilio filters all fit too. 8. Weak solenoid valve. Even perfect pucks often come out muddy.  **What I learned after using it extensively over the past month.**   1.  Keep an eye on the shot timer or you will miss it. 1. Tilt the steam wand sideways and then forward to get a good swirl. 2. I am way more irked by small inconveniences than I thought when I pay a lot of money fr something.    3. A shower screen and spring will keep the puck dry. 4. I rarely touch temperature. 5. I need reliable pre-infusion at least like the one on the E61 on a day-to-day basis. Not pressure profiling. **How it compares to other single boilers I own:** ECM Classika: the Pop Up has faster heat up and the water tank is much nicer. In any other regard, the Classika is a lot better. Better built, much more functionality, better steaming and better boiler. The drip tray is kind of a wash, but the Pop Up might eek that one out actually. Rancilio Silvia (V5): The Pop Up is better in almost every regard. More functionality, especially with the PID and pressure valve. The drip tray is leagues better. The Silvia has much better steaming and the build quality is a lot more sturdy. Like a LOT. But that's what the Silvia is famous for, isn't it? I also looked at and decided against:  **Olympia Cremina:** Too expensive for what it is. You have to hold onto it to not tip it over when pulling higher-pressure shots. It gets really hot, so holding onto it is unpleasant, even when putting a towel on the machine. Does make really nice espresso though. **Profitec Go:** Really nice machine. Looks great, fast heat-up, pressure easily adjustable, good steam. Almost got that one, but the Quick Mill beat it out because of some more functionality and the Profitec was a bit more expensive here and only available in a color I didn’t like. **La Marzocco Linea Micra:** Absolutely gorgeous, incredibly well built, incredible heat-up, and great steam. I decided against it because I just hate that you kind of need an app if you want to be more involved and it doesn’t allow you to adjust a couple of its functions in body. It doesn’t even have a shot timer. I hate that so much that it was over the top there, even though it looks just so nice. **A host of different ECM machines:** I already have one and wanted something different than another E61. I almost got the ECM Puristika though, just because of how well designed and built it was. Seriously, you kind of have to see it in person to appreciate just how nice it is. I am still considering getting it, just because it’s so amazing in person. **Profitec Move:** Really nice, high-quality machine that ticks every box. I just absolutely loathe the design. It looks like an appliance found in any southern German bakery that also serves cake and coffee. Seeing it in the flesh, I could not get around that and I hate myself for it, but that’s how it is.   I did a bit of a write-up here because you find so little on this machine online and I hope it will help some people when looking it up. Hope you liked it. [Internal layout.](https://preview.redd.it/chirwyp3jl9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=add5c3fcf9d48fbf5dfa659895c7bc64bfc9c5db) [nice bottomless portafilter](https://preview.redd.it/fgic2hvlel9g1.jpg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d37f05c446c9ce699df157db1c4a89e9019d933) [terrible steam wand design](https://preview.redd.it/w3et4hvlel9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5bf513b6c8f78ccfbba9c361c6f25a8b64d7d28) [lackluster finish](https://preview.redd.it/p4o38gvlel9g1.jpg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1973dffc29ab5ec08579fecd86430ac09bb8274c) [love the design and buttons](https://preview.redd.it/1jwglgvlel9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17f4a6ba3d045d79067f990c540db46420ffb885) [just so nice](https://preview.redd.it/c34d2jvlel9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7cc492b286aadcad8e577b85de0507630439aa5) [why that groove? Makes it really unpleasant.](https://preview.redd.it/avf6fhvlel9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2e0dadb846b3bdb7105a4982c44ba56bffbfd0b) [just a terrible design.](https://preview.redd.it/sukfghvlel9g1.jpg?width=3213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a4f5db69ccf061c831286052dc015cc7a431c33)

The main advantage of the Pop Up is the pressure profiling. You can properly pre infuse which is a huge advantage for lights. For everything else, I would take the Profitec. Otherwise the Pop Up. Not an easy answer I know. In the end, if I could choose again, I would probably take the Pop Up again, even though the Profitec has better steaming and better build quality.

If you’re not doing three or four milk drinks at a time daily, single boiler is where it’s at. The modded steam power of the Gaggimate should provide you with enough steam for more people than you would want to make coffee for.   Btw: the Silvia is a lot more spacious and easier to mod, if that fits your budget.

The Silvia is a lot more spacious inside so easier to modd. I much prefer how the information is presented for Gaggimate over Gaggiuino. Oh and the boiler is brass, not aluminum.

I have a bunch of machines, including spring lever and manual lever so I can give my 2 cents here. It's kind of funny with a spring lever. It just makes good coffee. You have some control, in my case via the ma-ter (boiler pressure, only really relevant for temperature and water pressure during filling the group head/pre infusion), then grind size, dose and pre infusion time and that's it. Find a good dose for your coffee, good grind size and pre infuse shorter for dark roast and longer for lights. Try out a couple of ratios until you find a good one and that's it. Great coffee. It is really hard to pull a bad shot. Even my botched first and so so second attempt tasted nice, and that was with light roast. It is incredibly simple so I have a hard time imagining a lot of failure points. Even if there ever were to happen anything, I could just go to the next hardware store and buy a replacement, except maybe for the Ma-Ter. And I am not even that technically inclined. I felt with my Flair it was kind of an involved pull, trying to hit your desired pressures at certain times, if you fuck up, it can actually taste bad. That amount of fuck up is really hard to do with a spring lever. The only other machine that lets you do it like a spring lever is kind of the opposite, something like a decent or in my case, a modded Silvia. And even then, it's not AS idiot proof or forgiving out of the box. That being said, you have to accept them for what they are and let go of some of the control you maybe wanted before. I find it liberating, some might find it frustrating. Also, I tried a bunch of lever machines and the Vectis is the only one I really enjoyed so far. The Cremina, the only other spring lever I tried, makes incredible espresso, but I really don't like the form factor. It's too short so it can potentially dip forwards when you pull. I don't like how hot everything gets, since you kind of have to stabilise it with your hand or arm and that is outright unpleasantly hot, even when you use your sleeve or a towel as an improvised oven mitt. In my opinion, there is really no excuse for that in a machine at that price. They can keep it almost as is and make it a lot more user friendly by using a single wooden part for better heat insulation to hold on to and a drip tray that is minimally longer. The Flair I had, the Pro3 is so labor intensive, it gets kind of old when you are not really into every step of it and you have to really pay attention when pulling. It is however capable to make mind blowing coffee. The La Pavoni suffers from the same problems the Cremina does but it gets even hotter, so hot that it can burn your coffee. And the drip tray is absolute shite, which is annoying in a lever machine. It is however priced a lot more fairly. On the Vectis, so far nothing annoys me. The drip tray is HUGE, The form factor makes it virtually impossible to tip it and it out of the box makes better coffee than the Silvia Gaggimate, Pop Up and ECM Classika I have. The Flair might be capable of better shots in theory but being that consistent and dialled in with it will probably not happen for most users.

Rancilio silvia and Gaggia Classic Pro are both exactly what you are looking for. And they don’t need mods like another poster said, but those help (especially the opv valve in the Gaggia, a five minute job).   Easily serviceable, a lot of repair shops, a lot can even be done by yourself.   You can buy those used, since they can run forever.

If your wife needs a simple push-button shot and you want better steam and build quality than the BBE, your best bet might be the Lelit Victoria I t’s a single boiler with programmable shot buttons, PID, decent steam, and looks way better than most machines in its class. If you’re open to modding, a Rancilio Silvia with a GaggiMate mod could give you the control and tinkering potential you want, but only if the mod runs smoothly enough not to frustrate your wife. The Breville Dual Boiler is still the most user-friendly option with volumetric control, great steam, and solid performance, but yeah it’s plasticky and not as aesthetically pleasing. Unfortunately, most HX and prosumer machines. won’t give you auto shot stopping without mods, which is super frustrating considering the price point.

Came here to say this. I ordered the V6 in March and it's been great. I'm currently waiting for my Gaggimate kit. Once modded, it should transform this tank into a semi-automatic monster.

Check for a second hand Rancilio Silvia v5/v6 with a good grinder. Vibiemme Domobar in older generations might also offer what you’re looking for.

At that budget, you should look for a well-maintained Rancilio Silvia V6 (year 2020 and beyond) or a new Gaggia Classic Pro.

I will choose Profitec but instead I bought a Silvia V5 used and installed a Gaggimate Pro 😉it’s an awesome machine now.

used silvia 600, gaggimate 250, lagom p64 1600

Rancilio silvia 700 gaggimate 200 lagom p80 1600 scale portafilter bean cellar wdt 300