Silvia v1

I think you set yourself up for a future grinder upgrade :) For me it was hard spending a lot on the grinder(s) initially, I had a Silvia v1 for many years with a plastic 100 euro Solis grinder, then came a Demoka Mini Moka, then a Ceado e37s and then a new espresso machine, now with Mahlkonig and Mazzer. I enjoyed my coffee all the time, I will say the step up in grinders had me wish an earlier move as they had a bigger impact (got the Ceado just before my ecm hx machine arrived and it boosted the Silvia to a new level. When the ecm died I switched back to the Silvia without too much complaint or drop in quality (a better machine is just a lot easier to maximize and consistently pull good quality)

I’d look around for an old Silvia for example, you can then mess around with modifying it but it also makes a good cup out of the gate. Might need a deep clean or even pump replacement (i took my boiler apart after 13 years… yuck, but it still ran 12 years after that). Look for ones where parts are readily available.

On my old Silvia it took me from brew start 0:30 brew (two cups), till 1:48 heat up for steam, till 2:30 steam, till 2:45 swirl and pour. On my Micra it takes: start brew, 0:15 done with milk and swirl, 0:30 brew done (two cups), 0:35 cappuccino done 0:41 for two cappuccino. More fancy latte art adds a little time Machine clean makes the dual boiler a little slower as the single boiler gets cleaned during the heat up so add 10 seconds, but almost 2 minutes faster. For parties there is no cool down making a single boiler unusably slow (4-5 minutes per shot in my case) so we just did filter.

I have a Cafelat Robot and a stovetop steamer. I too am no fan of plastic but have a V1 Rancilio Silvia which I refurbished including new silicon tubing for the water intake. It has the plastic water tank but water isn't sitting in it that long. Hard to escape the fact you probably have plastic in your home plumbing. It's on the cold side so not such a big problem.

Can confirm. My V1 Rancilio Silvia has been going strong for 25 years.

I bought a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder pair in 2000. The only failure was one of the thermostats on the Silvia about 6 yeas ago. $100 repair. I'm hopeful it'll last another 20-30 years.

I'm an espresso nerd. My previous machine was an original Silvia. When it came time to refresh my equipment, I seriously considered getting a Barista. They're convenient, have quick heat-up times, and from the reviews I've read, they can pull a good shot. I ended up getting a Silvia Pro instead, but I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy with a Barista as well.

Comparing the stock Silvia to a Go when he wants to use the Gaggimate doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The Gaggimate (Pro) turns the Silvia in a machine much closer to a Decent, at least functionality wise. You can even just download Decent profiles and use them on the Silvia if you mod it that way.

From the GaggiMate HP: "GaggiMate optimises boiler heating for steam mode, enabling quicker steam readiness and stronger, longer-lasting pressure". I can't measure because mine is already modded so I don't have a "before" but the steaming capabilities are certainly above anything single boiler pump driven even close to that price range thanks to improved heat up times through the pid and pump assisted steaming (the pump pulses during steaming to allow for constant pressure until you run out of water essentially). It also refills the boiler automatically after steaming and on startup to improve the service life of the heating element. Having tried a Profitec Go and almost buying it because it's a great machine and my Silvia, the modded Silvia is in every regard a better machine, other than the shitty drip tray. Maybe it does have 30 secs or a minute longer, but in my opinion, that would not be good enough a reason to get a Profitec.

I own a Silvia that I modded with the Gaggimate Pro. I also own a bunch of other machines, including a Quick Mill Pup Up, that is similar to the Profitec Go with a bit more functionality. You have to get the Pro version of Gaggimate though. The Silvia with Gaggimate is so much better, it is not even close. Anyone here stating otherwise is probably under the impression the Gaggimate is still just a fancy PID. The only thin the Go has going for it over the Silvia with Gaggimate Pro is faster heat up for steam (1 instead of 2 minutes) and a much nicer drip tray. The breadth of functionality, ease of use and improvement, for example in steaming, pressure profiling and consistency is like buying a completely new and much more expensive machine. Also one commenter mentioned Gaggiuino being much better. From my research, that's simply not true anymore. It has a more elaborate UI on screen, but you can see the same info in the web ui with Gaggimate. It does have the option to install a scale directly into the drip tray, that is yet to be added to Gaggimate, but you can use bluetooth scales with both. Also, finding all the necessary information and reliable parts list for a Silvia is very frustrating with Gaggiuino, with Gaggimate it's as easy as going to the website and clicking "order". Plus the discord mods are nicer over at Gaggimate :). To add to that, Gaggimate is as open source as you can reasonably go, Gaggiuino is closed source. Someone found a cooler oled screen for Gaggimate recently and posted online how to install it, that's impossible with current versions of Gaggiuino, just as an example. The only universally agreed to negative of the Silvia is its shitty drip tray and the tendency to accumulate rust under the drip tray. But that can be prevented with good maintenance or a bit of tape, if the V6 even suffers from that.

Depends on what is important to you.  Fast heat up, looks, PID, easily adjustable pressure, longevity, repairability, size, the actual process of making the shot? If you want a long lasting machine and like tinkering, you would probably go for a Silvia or a used ECM or something similar. If you want a really nice looking machine and only drink espresso, you might end up with a ECM puristika. Want the most bang for the buck, you will probably end up with a modified Delonghi Dedica or your machine. I went the used ECM route (Classika 1 for 500€, absolute bargain). And there are differences in shot quality, but I don’t think they are purely price related and certainly one could argue that a lot of people have a way better machine than they could ever make use of. It’s a hobby for a lot of people so they like to treat themselves.

I have Gaggimate on my Silvia. Imo getting anything other than a modded Silvia or Gaggia short of a Decent is not worth it, except if you want something very specific, like a spring lever or a specific look.  The breadth of adjustments, repeatability and functionality is nothing short of astonishing.   Gaggiuino is even more packed with features, but it’s closed source and imo Gaggimate is a bit more fun to dive into.   I would recommend not getting a hand grinder for that many espresso a day. 

What else short of a Decent do you think could hold its own against a Gaggimate/Gaggiuino modded machine? I had half a dozen machines so far, including high quality E61, direct lever and spring lever machines and the only thing I would consider were a Meticulous, but that's not a great idea for op, who does mostly milk drinks.

If you’re not doing three or four milk drinks at a time daily, single boiler is where it’s at. The modded steam power of the Gaggimate should provide you with enough steam for more people than you would want to make coffee for.   Btw: the Silvia is a lot more spacious and easier to mod, if that fits your budget.

The Silvia is a lot more spacious inside so easier to modd. I much prefer how the information is presented for Gaggimate over Gaggiuino. Oh and the boiler is brass, not aluminum.

Comparing the stock Silvia to a Go when he wants to use the Gaggimate doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The Gaggimate (Pro) turns the Silvia in a machine much closer to a Decent, at least functionality wise. You can even just download Decent profiles and use them on the Silvia if you mod it that way.

From the GaggiMate HP: "GaggiMate optimises boiler heating for steam mode, enabling quicker steam readiness and stronger, longer-lasting pressure". I can't measure because mine is already modded so I don't have a "before" but the steaming capabilities are certainly above anything single boiler pump driven even close to that price range thanks to improved heat up times through the pid and pump assisted steaming (the pump pulses during steaming to allow for constant pressure until you run out of water essentially). It also refills the boiler automatically after steaming and on startup to improve the service life of the heating element. Having tried a Profitec Go and almost buying it because it's a great machine and my Silvia, the modded Silvia is in every regard a better machine, other than the shitty drip tray. Maybe it does have 30 secs or a minute longer, but in my opinion, that would not be good enough a reason to get a Profitec.

I own a Silvia that I modded with the Gaggimate Pro. I also own a bunch of other machines, including a Quick Mill Pup Up, that is similar to the Profitec Go with a bit more functionality. You have to get the Pro version of Gaggimate though. The Silvia with Gaggimate is so much better, it is not even close. Anyone here stating otherwise is probably under the impression the Gaggimate is still just a fancy PID. The only thin the Go has going for it over the Silvia with Gaggimate Pro is faster heat up for steam (1 instead of 2 minutes) and a much nicer drip tray. The breadth of functionality, ease of use and improvement, for example in steaming, pressure profiling and consistency is like buying a completely new and much more expensive machine. Also one commenter mentioned Gaggiuino being much better. From my research, that's simply not true anymore. It has a more elaborate UI on screen, but you can see the same info in the web ui with Gaggimate. It does have the option to install a scale directly into the drip tray, that is yet to be added to Gaggimate, but you can use bluetooth scales with both. Also, finding all the necessary information and reliable parts list for a Silvia is very frustrating with Gaggiuino, with Gaggimate it's as easy as going to the website and clicking "order". Plus the discord mods are nicer over at Gaggimate :). To add to that, Gaggimate is as open source as you can reasonably go, Gaggiuino is closed source. Someone found a cooler oled screen for Gaggimate recently and posted online how to install it, that's impossible with current versions of Gaggiuino, just as an example. The only universally agreed to negative of the Silvia is its shitty drip tray and the tendency to accumulate rust under the drip tray. But that can be prevented with good maintenance or a bit of tape, if the V6 even suffers from that.

The advantages of a lot of built in grinders is, that they are conical, have a wider particle distribution and are way easier to dial in. If you do mostly milk drinks, that is a huge plus without much downsides. IF you like nerding out and clarity, it's not that great a deal but still not terrible if you just start out. Since that 600-700 bucks is a lot of money for you guys (as it is for most of us), I would recommend maybe looking into machines that last a long time and are easily repairable. Like a refurbed Rancilio Silvia, kind of a legendary machine and they last forever. Most appliance like machines, like Breville and Ninja don't have the best track record in regards to longevity and service. Here in Germany the Silvias go for around 300 used. You will read that you need to temperature surf with that machine but it's so easy, you'll learn it in like 10 minutes. So going by European prices, you could get a Silvia and something like a Eureka Mignon or Baratza Encore ESP for your budget. That would set you up for a very long time. I bet there's still Silvias from twenty years ago that still pull every day espresso. There are "traditional" espresso machines (easy setup, last forever) with grinders, but the grinder usually sucks (I am happy if someone has a good recommendation here though).

For what it's worth, with the never versions of the Silvia, temperature surfing apparently is a lot easier. With mine it's as simple as purging water until the heating lamp turns on and then pulling your shot the moment it turns off again if you want around 93 degrees and wait for around 1-2 seconds for every degree you want it hotter. I use that water to heat up my cup so it's really a non issue. The Pro version is a dual boiler machine so it's going to be more expensive but at least here in Germany, it's one of the cheaper dual boilers at around 1500€.

With your preferences, get a Ranciliio Silvia. It's an incredibly sturdy machine with a steam wand like the ones from professional machines. It also uses super solid, shop type portafilters. If you buy used, you can get a decent used grinder for the rest. Only thing to look out for used, is rust under the drip tray. The machine requires a bit of a hands on puling routine because it doesn't have a PID but your post sounds like you can handle that not problem (it's very easy anyways, just time your shots based on the heating light).

I was almost there too. Couldn't decide between the You, Dalla Corte Studio and Nurri R-Type. In the end, I decided to mod my dad's old Silvia and get myself a nice lever machine for the purist in me. The insane consistency and absolute control over every parameter is really nice with programmable machines. I find myself pulling a lot of lever shots though. Kind of magical.

Rancilio silvia and Gaggia Classic Pro are both exactly what you are looking for. And they don’t need mods like another poster said, but those help (especially the opv valve in the Gaggia, a five minute job).   Easily serviceable, a lot of repair shops, a lot can even be done by yourself.   You can buy those used, since they can run forever.

If you are into that sort of thing, have a look at the Gaggimate. I modded my Silvia with it and it's kind of crazy how much it improves the machine.

Lol, I get it. I remember "improving" stuff around the house to the distress of my dad. But I am not very handy and the mod took me maybe 7 hours. And it was only that long because I had to remove a lot of rust from the machine body around the drip tray. But you do you of course.

Former obsessed barista here lol i know how you feel :))) Almost eveything you say rings lelit bianca v3, the rotary pump, nice steam, flow profiling, except for the part about saving the profiles, that would be Decent DE1 territory. i don’t see myself with a LMLM at home, although I absolutely adore Linea in a cafe setup, it is just reliable, I wanna play around at home and need profiling (maybe GS3 but I don’t like the aesthetic tbh) Personally I would be happy with a gaggimate modded rancilio silvia but i don’t know if it would withstand 20 shots a day. I have also heard great things about WPM Primus but definitely doesn’t have the charm of a cafe workflow machine

The Mara X is not overkill, but as I wrote in another comment, it doesn't offer the reproducibility you get from an Elizabeth or even a Victoria. I know many will disagree, but in my book a Silvia is an entry-level machine, not a mid-tier one.