Turin - Legato Espresso Machine

I can share my personal experience. I used a spice grinder for 3 years. Lol then went to Capresso conical burr grinder. That made a night and day difference! Then I went to Ode Gen 1. Another massive jump from Capresso to Ode. Recently switched out Gen 1 to Gen 2 burrs. Noticeable difference in cup quality, but the jump was much much smaller than the previous two jumps. Same for espresso - had a Turin Legato Gen 1 for 1 year and went to Profitec Pro 400. I am willing to blame my lack of skills for poor espresso quality on Turin. I didn't quite know how to pull good shots maybe, but PP400 is a huge step up from Legato. I never was able to pull a sweet shot. Espresso always tasted sour, despite having a PID. Recently tried a coffee I use at home at a coffee shop which uses La Marz professional machine. Honestly couldn't tell the difference between my PP400 and La Marz. Price point is probably a bad way to capture where you hit diminishing returns. For me, Ode Gen 2 is where you start hitting diminishing returns on pour overs. For espresso, a decent temp controlled machine (Profitec Go/ Pro 400) is where you'll hit a plateau. For grinders, I'd say Niche/ Specialita is where you'll hit the plateau.

No one has said it yet so I’ll post what you’ll most likely find in your search: -Espresso: Turin legato v2 has all the benefits of a dual boiler, OPV and PED temp control at ~$500. Makes great espresso and quick milk drinks. I’m very happy with my v1 + OPV. Cons; it’s kind of ugly/simple compared to a profitec Go -Grinder: Timemore 064S for when you ultimately get into pour overs as well. Both Lance and James have YouTube reviews of this grinder. you’ll still have $500 leftover for accessories and beans.

Turin Legato - $479 Turin D54 - $215 That's a bit over your budget, but that's been my setup for the past year and I've been really happy with it. If you swap the Breville Bambino ($299) for the Legato, you'd come in pretty close to $500. One of the downsides to the Breville is that it uses a different size for all its tools: 54mm. So that's your portafilter and tamper at a minimum. But if you want a puck screen or a grounds distributor tool, those will have to be 54mm as well. Oh, and the D54 dosing cup won't fit into that size portafilter. But if you get a machine that uses the commercial standard size ("E61" which is 58mm) then you can keep all your tools if/when you upgrade your machine. The Turin Legato, the Gaggia Classic and the Rancilio Silvia are the entry-level machines that have E61-size groupheads.

For example I have gaggia e24. I chose it as a prosumer level machine, stainless steel, control, ability to repair or mod, compatible with 58mm accessories. My daughter has the bambino plus, she doesn't mind that it's plastic and an appliance grade machine. She likes the quick warm up time, preset shots, and auto milk frothing. More automation is fine with her. Neither of us would trade with the other. Who's right? Which one is better? I think they're both good, one is better for me and the other is better for her In the same price range is turin legato. It's loaded with more features than either of these machines. But it doesn't have a history or well known branding. Some people have it and love it, it's the best machine for them.

Get yourself a Bambino or turin legato, a baratza esp, a decent scale, and some fresh beans from a good rated local coffee shop. Check marketplace. After that, once you figure out the ins and outs of how to brew a good shot, you can upgrade or decide it's not for you. If you are dead set on a single machine that does it all, breville barista Express is capable but the built in grinder is a low point.

If I were in your shoes with your budget, I would go with the Turin Legato($440) and the DF64V2($400). You can get both at a discount right now on preorder, bringing you under budget and giving you some play room for coffee gadgets, like a scale!!! The DF54 practically locks you into espresso, since its burrs (and lack of burr replacements) are commonly considered terrible for anything besides espresso, and the GCP, in my personal experience, demands certain upgrades to be used (low profile drip tray, etc.). Meanwhile, the DF64V2 grinder allows access to replacements / upgrades, and the Legato comes with room for a scale + cup as well as PID out of box.

Sorry, I missed that part about the Up.  Yep. Turin is a great way to increase value at any budget.  Maybe to better generalize my comment, devoting more of your budget to the grinder would be my advice. You can make delicious espresso on a Bambino w/ a good grinder, but it’s hard to make delicious espresso on a Lelit Bianca w/ a bad grinder. 

Best? Well, be prepared to spend more than 10 000 euro for something like a Slayer SG. If you’re asking about best beginner machine, then the Legato will be a good options. There is also the Rancilio Silvia, fantastic machine but slightly more expensive. You could think of getting the Bambino Plus or modding a Gaggia with a Gaggimate, there are a lot of options really.

I really love my apex miicoffee v2 / Turin legato. Best part is that it has a separate steam circuit. So while it's not a dual boiler, you never have to purge your boiler if you want to pull a shot after making a latte. Been a great quality of life improvement in my house where some of us make cappucinos and some make Americanos back to back.

Grinder should be your priority. Without precise micro adjustments and the ability to go super fine you’re not gonna get good espresso. Maybe what you consider average would actually work? What specifically are you currently using? A $1500 budget gets you some awesome options, like the Timemore Sculptor 078s or Niche Zero, which are $800-ish. Eureka Mignon line is also amazing For a machine dual boilers or heat exchangers are for steaming and brewing at once, so if you plan on making a lot of milk drinks back to back that’s the use case for that. The Gaggia is capable of making good espresso and is meant to last a lifetime but the temp swings require a temp surfing routine or modifying the machine. If I was to stay over with $1500 I’d get one of the grinders I mentioned and a Turin Legato, which has a PID and separate thermoblock for steaming and I’ve even seen it in other countries used for light cafe work

It basically just comes down to how much you value the $850ish price difference. The coffee will be very similar, the workflow will be very similar, the dual heating element on the Legato is awesome for making back to back drinks but otherwise they are very similar machines. The flow control on the Pop Up is definitely a little easier to use. You’re also more likely to find a technician for the Pop Up and OEM parts. Personally I don’t consider that enough of a reason to spend the extra money because I don’t mind doing my own repairs and maintenance, but it’s something to consider.