Wendougee - Data S

Check out the wendougee data s. It's similar to a decent, but it has a gear pump which is even better than rotary. It checks all of your boxes except the manual tactile flow control. It has flow control, but through buttons, which is actually better because you get exactly the pressure/flow you want. It's over $1k under your max budget.

The Wendougie Data is the most comparable at that price point, but still completely different. Also check out The Meticulous if you dont need milk steaming, as it will be even cheaper, assumedly.

Maybe check the wendougee data S. Very similar to the decent, but a little bit cheaper and has a rotary pump vs the vibration in the decent. It offers you a great deal of control over almost all parameters and it's more user friendly. A friend of mine just bought one and I really liked it so much that I'm considering getting one and over my flair 58+2 (which is a great lever machine btw).

Hi! I'm not a fake account nor affiliated with Wendougee. I'm just giving my two cents here according to my experience. I have tried both machines, and the Wendougee felt more premium and better quality built than the Decent. I'm not saying the Decent is bad whatsoever, it is a great espresso machine if you are into experimenting with crazy different extraction. Also, the interface in the Wendougee is more user friendly and clean, and the only thing it can't do compared to the decent is temperature profiling. You can save 1500 USD with the Wendougee and have a machine that can do practically the same as the decent, looks much better and feels more premium. IMHO that's a win-win.

I dont disagree, but I would suggest waiting for an "open box". I paid $2600 for my open box Data S. Build quality is superb, the tech kinda scares me but not enough to take the plunge.

It’s honestly just not the same coming from a pump machine, even less the same coming from a vibratory pump. The smoothness of the descending pressure profile genuinely makes a difference. I have a few lever machines (both direct and spring) and a Wendougee Data S that can mimic pressure profiles. If I’m being honest I could have stopped at the Robot and been happy.

I paid $2600 for an “open box” and truthfully I couldn’t see how the machine wasn’t brand new. Last I checked I was still seeing similar prices at espresso outlet, but I did however see that the new MSRP $3700.

I have a dougee and I love it. I’m also a “road less traveled’ type of person and was willing to take a risk. Others aren’t wrong that the Decent community is light years better than the Wendougee. I went in knowing this and I’m still happy as I don’t mind tinkering on my own. Money was never the issue, I just didn’t feel like the decent was that much better for my use case. The build quality is superb on the Data S and that was my biggest concern with buying a Chinese made machine. The sound of the Decent was enough a reason for me to not want one, the Data S and the gear pump isn’t silent but I actually somewhat enjoy the soft pitched whine.

I also got my Data S open box but it doesn't look like there will be as many open box litas. They sent out a lot of data s demo units, the app was not great in the beginning, and Wendougee had 0 reputation at the time. Units moved slow for the data and even the normal units were selling at a heavily discounted introductory pricing to just get them out in the wild. The Lita doesn't seem to have the same problem and the initial batch order was almost entirely pre-sold before they even landed.

I just bought a Wendougee Data S as an open box from Espresso outlet and so far it seems really capable and built to last. I would consider it as an option if you feel the Decent is stretching the budget a bit. It has many of the same (but not all) profiling features of the Decent with a dual boiler design, gear pump, and really high quality components. The steam power is insane and the gear pump is both much quieter and more robust than the Decent.

You can't do temperature profiling. Only the Decent can do that because it has a line to mix cold water from the tank with the hot water right before the group head. With the Data S you also have to prioritize pressure or flow profiling in each step of the profile. So basically, a single step would say target 9 bar for 5 seconds or target 11 ml/s for 5 seconds. You can have one step that targets flow and then another that targets pressure within the same profile but you can't have parameters for both. With the Decent you can setup a step to say target 11 ml/s of flow unless the pressure drops below 6 bar in which case increase flow to maintain 6 bar. I'm not an advanced enough user to really need all that personally. You can still duplicate pretty much any other machine or shot style with the Data S. The steam power on the Data S is incredible. I can steam 10oz of milk in like 20 seconds. The gear pump is also much quieter than the Decent which sounds like a tractor sometimes in the videos I've seen.

Outside of the software the build quality is really impressive for the price honestly. I looked at tons of machines during my search as I was upgrading from a Breville Barista Express and, like you, wanted something I could grow with that was built well. The espresso world is kind of wild in that you don't seem to be able to get both build quality and modern tech / profiling for under $3k. In the mid $2k range you just start to see some of that. For the price it's currently selling at the Data S is really unmatched until you get to the Decent which is like $1k more for more flexible software but inferior hardware, imo.

Wendougee Data s You can't control quite as many parameters as the decent but it has way better steaming capabilities, a gear pump that's quieter, and is generally well built and easy to use. It's also well within your budget.

I own a data s and absolutely love it. Built like a tank and makes delicious, repeatable shots. If the lita is anything like the data s then I’d say it’s worth it for the price.

Unless you already have one, I'd suggest investing a good chunk of money into a grinder before saving for a machine. If you do a lot of milk drinks, I'd suggest a dual boiler or heat exchanger machine. You have options like La Marzocco Linea Micra or the Profitec Move for a simple dual boiler with programmable timed shots with pre-infusion, probably closest you'll get to a commercial style machine at home. Honestly, it's all you really need. Another option would be something E61 based, like the ECM Mechanica Max, or the Profitec Drive, Diletta Bello/Alto, etc... The issue with these machines is temperature stability and having to flush some water to stabilize things, but once you do the machine has tons of power and allows for things like flow control so you can really take control and dial in everything. They also have that beautiful mirror polish and old-school looks. And then you have machines like the Decent DE-1, Sanremo You, Wendougee Data... The machines are really more of a computer than an espresso machine and allows you to control every variable from the touchscreen so you can go all Mad Scientist with your espresso with flow and pressure curves, temperature curves, custom profiles. It's a really cool cutting edge tech!

Stretch that budget and get a Decent! Haha... The Wendougee data s actually look compelling at its price point. If you're curious about the Flair in addition to another machine, I would definitely recommend it! I have one, and with it, I discovered I would actually rather drink filter coffee than straight espresso. I tried pulling the Rao Filter 2.1 and found myself always going to that recipe instead of pulling straight espresso. Now I just use a v60 instead haha. I need to pull the Flair out again and see what all this "soup" hype is about, though.

I have had the Decent DE1 Pro 1.45 for about a year and I enjoy it very much. I am a Canadian owner. Although there is a large Decent community, I have not used it very much, if at all. Yes that is a benefit, but just like any focused subgroup, there are not many negative comments on the unit itself. If you do comment about any negatives, you will literally be run out of town, so to speak. The steam wand is powerful but it is not a "cold to touch" steam wand. You will need to clean it very thoroughly and regularly if you make a lot of milk drinks. They are planning a retrofit of the Bengle steam wand for the DE1 at a cost of $200-$300 USD. The water dispenser is *very* poor for a machine of this price. It sputters a lot due to the thermo pump it uses. That means the water gets all of the place. Before purchasing it, I really had no idea of how poorly it functioned. If you are a fan of Americanos, be warned. I have owned 7 conventional espresso machines prior to the decent. I wanted something that I can tinker with and the Decent delivers. My wife, is not a fan of its design. The ability to change so many variables to achieve different shots of the same bean is very fulfilling. I do like the design of the Wendougee Data S and it is actually available from Canadian Retailers. I like the silence and luxury from dual rotary pumps and the looks/luxury of it. I happen to like wood accents and the finishing of the Data S. I also like the programmability aspect of it, similar to the Decent but not nearly at that level. Note that on 120v , it requires a different type of receptacle from your wall socket. I think at this price range, both will make a great espresso, regardless of which you choose. Without the Decent, I don't think the Data S would exist.

Turin Legato V2. Wendougee Data S ($3000, but a killer of any Decent and any Italian machine less than $7000 - has many Italian Swiss components).

There are some useful reviews on YouTube of the Wendougee Data. I also think the fact it’s made by a Chinese company is unsettling to some traditionalists.

With all due respect, there’s no way I’d buy a Decent. Interesting software, sure, but also cheap vibratory pumps and crappy old hardware everywhere else. The other recommendations are spot on. Look at a video of any Decent machine delivering steam, hot water, or a shot and you’ll see what I mean. If you want fancy shot profiling software and good hardware, look at a Wendougee Data S machine with a gear pump at 2/3 of the price of the cheapest Decent machine.

Well dang! My bad. You’re right. As you point out, there’s a whole flock of pretty new dual PID dual thermoblock machines out there, positioned between budget machines and prosumer machines in price. And a quick look into their performance reveals that they all have pretty much the same problems as the much more expensive Decent machines, notably: thermoblock heating ceilings (they heat water as it flows and don’t have stored thermal mass like a boiler); the thermoblocks often fall behind even though the PID looks “stable;” PID temperature ≠ puck temperature so water loses heat between block → group → puck (very noticeable on light roasts); brew thermoblocks are underpowered during steaming; limited ability to pull successive shots or steam without waiting. It’s probably inevitable that thermoblock performance in espresso machines will improve over time, but they’re nowhere near dual boiler performance yet. A Rancilio Silvia Pro X sells for about $100 more than the Acadia Steel Dual PID, and has dual boilers. A Wendougee Data S sells for about $700 more, and also has dual boilers. Either of those machines seems like a much smarter buy than the dual thermoblock machines you’ve mentioned. Thermoblock machine performance, at least for now, is for lower end less capable and less expensive machines (except for Decent machines, which are premium priced). Hope this helps.

One of those people who owns a Wendougee S machine here. Check out YouTube comparisons of this machine vs Decent machines by popular well known reviewers. If you’re into wonky long in the tooth cheaply built espresso machines with vibratory pumps that use open source software, the Decent is your machine. If you want a more reliable, robust, substantial and modern machine that will do almost anything a Decent machine will do (except temperature profiling), and do it better, and for less money, consider a Wendougee. It’s a much better made, designed and engineered machine with commercial grade components. Some people are unhappy about a serious Chinese entrant in the prosumer espresso machine market. Well, FWIW, the Wendougee S internal components are mostly Italian, and Decent machines are made in Hong Kong anyway (and have not been seriously updated or improved from a hardware perspective really at any point in their history and development). These are merely my own opinions as a hobbyist, and also an engineer and scientist. Take your own deep dive when comparing these two machines and see what you wind up concluding. Cheers!

Idea you may not find palatable: good hand grinder (to start with) plus an open box Wendougee Data S machine (free shipping and no tax) from Espresso Outlet. Upgrade to electric grinder later (maybe MWH-3bomber Navigator?). You’ll never have to upgrade the espresso machine.

It would be a step towards mitigating later upgradeititis. I’ve just been perfecting my own profile for traditional medium dark Italian style blends since I got it. It’s a great machine, easy to use, and built like a tank.

The Micra is obviously a great machine, but considering its capabilities it’s quite expensive. I’d suggest checking out a Wendougee Data S machine. I bought an “open box” one for $2500 with no tax and free shipping. I’d bet it makes better coffee than a Micra.

Wendougee Data S is worth checking out. Less expensive than a Decent machine, but far better build quality and can do all (or none) of the shot profiling you want. Also produces better espresso than a Decent machine.

Check out a Wendougee Data S machine. High quality machine with a saturated group head, excellent steam, and flow and pressure profiling. Has dual boilers and is not constructed at all like a Decent machine. Has a gear pump like the Sanremo You.