Neumann - KM 185

Hey guys, Was comparing some mics for indoor dialog and wanted to share my experiences + solicit feedback from experienced users. Looking for best mic in garbarge, untreated, reflective spaces, for 1hr long, seated, conversational autobio storytelling, warm dialog, talking heads format. (basically forced to work in spare bedrooms w ancient creaky wooden floors aka acoustic hell lol) Mics used: MKH 50, MKH 8050, MKH 8060, Neumann KM 185, Schoeps C641. Connected to Zoom F6 via canare XLR cable, boompole holder with KTEK 89cc boompole. Monitored w/ Audio Technica m50x hedfons. No foam windscreens used. Testing locations + method: Living Room: 8ft Ceiling, 10x14ft floor, tongue n groove floor, no treatment, soft couch Angle: \~45deg angle towards Collarbone (btwn bottom of chin + collarbone, generally towards throat/collarbone,...at closer 1ft distance, more overhead angle aimed 3-5 inches in front of head) Distances: 4ft, 3ft, 2ft, 1ft overhead, 2ft overhead, 1ft from ceiling/4ft from mouth Sibilance test: "Sally Sells Seashells By The Sea Shore." Spare Bedroom "Studio": 8ft Ceiling, 8x10ft floor, asymmetrical, tongue n groove, producer's choice blankets on x2 windows with 3x Godox LA300R units with fans ON (pleasant low pitch fan noise, about 2 ft-3ft away from mic) Distances: 3ft, 2ft, 1ft overhead. My impressions: MKH 50: (hpf and 10dB pad both OFF) Best polarity/isolation, great reach at 2-3ft, sounds best at 3ft to me. BUT SO DARK. Usually boom 1.5ft to 2ft range while filming irl, where it's too dark and HPF switch doesn't sound right to me. At 3ft its fine, but maybe not great for shooting in smaller spaces. Off axis is solid. For passage read, didn't sound clear with consonants, too muddy, until about 3 ft. A bit of sibilance at 1-2ft. A little bit weird, sounds too bitey to sound good for 1hr of talking heads imo. And w all the dark low end up close, i feel the listener would have to "lean in" too much to make up for lack of high end clarity/muddy upclose bass overload. Any slurred speech would be lost in the darkness. MKH 8050: Maybe my fave w my voice. Good polarity but not as good as mkh50. More neutral than dark, still rich bass, but picks up more room resonance than mkh50. Excels at 1-2ft range, starts to be muddy at 3ft imo. No signif sibilance issues. Pretty good off axis. Feels like it would be chilll to listen to for 1hr talking heads w warmth and neutral-bright enuf. main concern would be slightly more resonance than mkh50. MKH 8060: Sounds like mkh 416 but more indoor friendly. Still too resonancey/low end sounds weird. Seems idiot proof tho, barely have to aim it right w wider pattern, super brite and brilliant freq response. A bit broadcasty/tv-y sound. Pattern a bit too wide. Off axis pretty good. Sounds better at longer distances (3ft+), as expected from a short shotgun. Runs hot so set listening level to -10dB lower than the other mics. A little bit sibilancey up close, w all the brightness boost. Maybe worst of the mics, mainly becoz resonance and subjectively not likeing super brite broadcasty sound. Wouldn't want to listen to it for 1hr, too bright and shrill/resonancey. Feels like an advertisement more than a conversation. Neumann KM 185: Sounds very close to the 8050 and Schoeps to my ears. Pretty good isolation. Polarity is perhaps a little too narrow, and off axis discoloration is a bit bad, and more noticeable than 8050 and Schoeps. Slightly "boxy" freq response. But when you're in the sweetspot it's so good. A little dull and lifeless in the high end/overly neutral, but i kind of like neutral mics. Feels EQ-able. A little high end hype, but when I a/b compare headphones on/off, sounds pretty accurate to real life. Like 8050, sounds best in close, 1-2ft, (3ft starts a little muddiness). Seems to capture the voice well. No signif sibilance issues. Another mic I think would sound good for 1hr talking heads, enuf warmth there. But main concern would be narrower polar pattern/missing the sweet spot when u move/discoloration off axis, and perhaps a little resonance. Schoeps C641: Sounds immediately good, as expected re: price. But def "sweetened," and, to my ears, seems more resonancey than mkh8050 and km185, like the pattern is a bit wider n deeper. Also feels like the low end is a bit more scooped, and the high end bias makes the resonances feel more noticeable. But has the best off axis performance of all the mics, feels like no signif discoloration off axis. No sibilance issues. Impressive. But a little too sweetened, like the low end is scooped out too early. I like a bit of warmth for 1hr documentary talking heads/interview format, this mic feels slightly too high for me. Also pattern feels wider so more resonancey. As a goof, I used some red whips + ktek squid + VXLR PRO to mount a RODE VIDEOMIC PRO to the boompole and did the living room tests as well. Also tested it alongside the MKE600. Rode Videomic Pro: a ton of selfnoise, and pretty damn resonancey/shotgunny sound. BUT, all the frequencies you need for dialog are there, jus probs requires denoising in post and resonances might be an issue. Pretty good @ 1-2ft ranges. EQing required. Sibilance seemed controlled actually, maybe its all the hiss self noise competing w it, lol. Off axis was not great, but then again, seemed to capture dialog no matter where i was in the room, so good as an on-camera backup maybe? MKE 600: Better suited to booming/easier to work with. A bit resonancey. A bit sibilant, maybe worst sibilance of all the mics. Off axis pretty ok. but otherwise shining wonderfully at 1-2ft and still good at 3 ft. Def punches above its weight re price point. QUESTIONS: Am I crazy for not liking a standard mic, the dark mkh50 for indoor dialog? Is there some trick in post to make the sharp consonant sounds more clear when close miking 1-2ft? How would you EQ to deal with resonances in small spaces? I hear brickwalling, like a super hard cut around 80Hz, -48dB/oct or more, seems to be a standard. Any plugins? I use RX 10, analyze/learn 30 seconds of room tone, and DeNoise to remove Godox LA300R fan noise. Works well. Sometimes prempro's deverb plugin etc, to remove super obvious resonances. Also, separately, was curious if you had to improve dialog recorded with a deadcat on the mic what you would pull up in EQ to return some clarity. I know pro audio is acoustic treatment/mic placement sweet spot/trial and error, but jus seeing what i could do to improve less than ideal situation Sanken CS-3e I hear, for horrendous, small, highly reflective/"lively" indoor spaces, the Sanken CS-3e might be worth checking out? Some omni capsule design that has great rejection/isolation at the cost of natural sound, but versatile for indoor. Also hear DPA 4018C and DP 4011A, and the Telefunken M62 are good. anyway, hope this info helps ppl who are interested in these mics for indoor dialog in less than ideal spaces. interested to hear your experiences. my skills are sorta all over the place/nonlinear. i'm not able to be pro, re physical disabilities (spine injury), but i am trying to optimize my recordings in a negative situation, in a space i have access to. cheers

yeh its jus dark in that 1-2ft range i typically work in, in smaller spaces. i have two copies of the mkh50 and both have the issue. even tried diff boompoles/xlr cables etc, but cant seem to get rid of it until approx 3ft. it was out of frustration i ordered all those mics to compare bcoz i couldnt get the 50 to sound good at 1-2ft, only 3ft. its actually a weird mix of dark and brite. subjective, but it feels muddy when close mic'd but then the audio u do have is more bright and bitey in an "action movie" kind of way. it def doesnt have that organic l, warm/smooth feeling that the 8050 and km185 have in the 1-2ft range. like id rather listen to the 8050 and km185 at 1-2ft for 1 hr reading a passage/storytelling/doc interview style, than 1hr of the actiony but somehow muddy upclose mkh50. totally subjective tho

another great mic that is clearer and even more feedback resistant is the audix om5. i wouldnt go usb mic. get some scarlett interface. then you could also use condenser mics for stereo recording guitars etc… lewitt lct 040 are grwat small condensers. almost up with my neumanns km… a great underrated large condenser mic is shure sm27, rugged designed for stage use, integrated pop protection. got mine used for 120. cheap china ribbons can je great with a cloudlifter…tbone rb700 fat warm deep…love it. and to throw in another polar pattern: its figure 8! recording from both back amd fromt and deaf at the sides. some might call it bidirectional.

Those are great for shows/touring. But for vocals, you definitely want a condenser. I used the MXL for years, and then I got a VERY good deal on Amazon on a Neumann.

I have an mxl condenser mic that works well, but just bought a Neumann condenser mic off Amazon. In the studio, they always said they used the $4k Neumann on me. Not sure that it is a knock off, but supposedly the same one Billie eillish uses and it sounds great. Under $400.

It matters massively and you’ll see that with experience your ears will learn to recognise the difference. It doesn’t matter how much you process a 57, it won’t compare to a Neumann, no matter what you do to it. It might sound cool in a different way, but you won’t get the high fidelity of a top notch condenser, if that’s the sound you’re going for. Think about this: If you go for an “expensive” vocal sound and have a U 87 and maybe a nice compressor, you won’t need to process it much, maybe a bit of eq and some reverb / delay. In that case you’d be MIXing. If you have a 57, you’ll have to use a ton of processing to make it sound more “expensive”. You’ll have to use multiple compressors, color eqs, cut resonances, etc. in that case you would be FIXing. Makes sense?