Lily 2

My wife has the Lily 2 (non GPS version). I bought it so she can check her SP0² - which has now vanished from the watch I get the appeal, but as a fitness watch, it just doesn't do anything very well

TL;DR Yes, overall, this IS a good switch from the Apple Watch if you're prioritizing battery life, fitness tracking, and a cute, dainty look. When my SO and I started a weight loss journey early this year, I encouraged her to get a Lily 2 -the Classic, because she's frugal and was unsure if she'd like it or use it. Recently, she said to me, "This is something that I never thought I needed, that I now can't imagine not having." She jokingly calls herself "Princess Luddite" (she's not, really). She's an executive, and the size & style of the Lily was a huge plus, as well as the reasonable cost. She loves that most people simply see it as a watch, not a fitness or smart watch. Battery life IS terrific on Garmins. GPS use will run down the battery, but my Venu is still a multi-day smart watch unless I'm using the GPS all day long, like skiing or sailboat racing. The Classic is missing the onboard GPS, which the Sport has. That should do the trick nicely for tracking your outdoor runs, as it does on my Venu 3 for my cycling, skiing, and more -no need for your phone to be with you. Specs say that it does control smartphone music, but neither of us does that. We use Tidal, which is not compatible. Spotify is compatible, IDK about Apple Music. She isn't much of a fitness person. However, as a walker, she particularly enjoys the step tracking and sleep tracking features. Lily tracks her sleep better than my Venu, which seems iffy on my falling asleep (could be me!). Sleep tracking might be the weakest feature on Garmins in general. Notifications/message reading work well with all of my messaging apps (I'm not sure about Viber, but it should work the same), and are customizable as you desire, so you're not overwhelmed with unimportant ones. Bands are easy to change; she wears a more posh, dressy, jewelry-like, less sporty-looking band. I change my bands and watch faces for everyday casual wear vs more formal events. She hasn't mentioned any durability concerns or wear in 2 years of daily use, even from gardening. She's mainly in an office, so not really beating it up. The Sport has nearly all the activity tracking features available on my old Fenix 5, as well as on my Venu 3. It's not missing much, TBH. Apple compatibility appears comparable. As Android users, we just have access to messaging response options that Apple does not allow, but all the notifications should be the same on an iPhone. She doesn't use any third-party apps, but they should work, I guess?

my sister loves her lily 2 active - very fashionable and really good looking but can work for fitness too. The other pro over the lily 2 is the much longer battery life (almost double) and added buttons. so its not just the gps. Though it is slightly larger than the lily 2.

all day wear no issue and she lives in a very hot climate so no issues with sweat etc. Took a bit for her to get used to wearing at night as didn't used to wear a watch to bed and its her first smartwatch. But yes its tiny and light so no biggie.

my sister loves her lily 2 active - very fashionable and really good looking but can work for fitness too. The other pro over the lily 2 is the much longer battery life (almost double) and added buttons. so its not just the gps. Though it is slightly larger than the lily 2.

what is the largest case size you are looking for, cause if under 43mm and under, especially if only around 41mm and under you are pretty limited if you want to stick with the better known brand names.. what about women's health - do you also want to track that, as there is quite a bit of differentiation between brands - also what phone do you have as that can potentially limit some of the smaller case options.

the best watch is the one that best meets your needs and is a price you can afford. Also note that apple watches are locked to iPhone and cannot work with android; and similarly wear os (pixel, samsung, oneplus, ticwatch etc) are locked to android and cannot work with iPhone. Should also look at garmin, coros, polar, suunto, amazfit, huawei and fitbit - will all work with either android or iPhone. Best option might be to talk about what you want out of a smartwatch from a) smarts, b) health, c) tracking fitness - talk about what types of activity and level of data; d) any of useful info - i.e. battery life, torch, offline maps, scuba diving, tracking golf, shootiing, hunting, track flight hours, climbing (indoor or outdoor), high speed/pressure sports like surfing, kite boarding etc etc. These days you name it and their is likely an option that will cover what you want - its just the cost where you may have to compromise.

I think you need to understand HRV - to take a HRV recording you have to be inactive as being active impacts your HRV, hence while it will only show stress during the day for inactive periods - if being exercising it will only show it a certain period post activity as that impacts HRV too, so has to wait for your ANS to recover from the activity before it can start to show it again. If any watch is showing you HRV during active periods its giving you garbage as they don't understand how your ANS is impacted by activity. All day stress is really only useful in terms of looking at your daily average as a trend - there are too many factors that can otherwise impact it. If you want more info about the stress metric and HRV would suggest starting with Firstbeats white paper on the stress metric (considering they are the first ones to introduce that metric). Re the HR - were you actively tracking an exercise session or just looking at the HR widget - if just looking at the widget track an activity as in 24/7 mode its running at reduced power for HR, when tracking an activity it pushes up to full power mode.

actually technically the apple watch doesn't measure HRV continuously - it only measures it every 2 to 5 hours and it will take the readings more frequently when you are sedentary or in specific conditions like when you are sleeping, or when AFIB mode is active (this can increase the HRV tracking feature to every hour or so). But the during the day readings are of very limited value - its the variation to the trend over time that is way more important. The really important HRV readings are those that are done during your sleep period as there are less factors that can influence the readings. This is a line worth reading - it is potentially biased as his showing why his software is better - but the underlying concepts are valid. And while it has been updated , as its a couple of years old now and hence why the original data didn't include apple watch cause at that time their HRV was absolutely useless, and since then all of the brands have also improved their HRV reporting etc (garmin's for example is now continuous during the night) - it doesn't change the underlying message / principle. Taking readings during the day is of very very limited use.

As you say you understand how HRV and ANS work then you should understand why there are gaps in Garmin's Stress readings and shouldn't be surprised by them, but as you stated you were surprised, it made me assume that haven't fully researched the subject / grasped how HRV and ANS work. PS - can't remember if I stated already that for garmin you can get a direct HRV reading at any point by running the 2 min health snapshot - this will show your the HRV value on the watch - but can't display on the watch face (at least not with standard watch faces). Can pull up at any time via the health snapshot app or the health snapshot widget. But coolest thing is the ability to see a list of them in connect web - the individual reports are all pdf, but the web shows a list of them and you can also see a list of main attributes (customizable) so can your RMSSD for each recording so pretty easy to spot a trend from this if performing them regularly at a specific time. \[Within the PDF file it also includes a SDRR value\].

I am fully aware you can pull HRV during a workout (mine is set to) and know the reason - but that is very different to pulling during 24/7 where far more factors are at play than there would be during a workout. Also its a bit painful to use that activity HRV data as while its logged in the fit file the garmin connect app/web doesn't currently show that data, which of course means you have to use a 3rd party app - and currently I can't be bothered to mess around with multiple apps. And yes most garmins running the elevate 4 or 5 HR Sensor still offer the HRV during workout (for main activities). Note that if the watch offers the performance condition data metric, which can set on data screen and get alerts for it - and while its not a purely HRV related - it does include HRV along with pace and HR to provide a real time assessment of your deviation to your baseline VO2max. And while I know this is more than just HRV I feel that to a degree its sort of incorporating what HRV logging does i.e .how your body is adapting to the training load of that session. Worth noting that all of the 4 fitness brands - garmin, coros, polar and suunto all only do HRV as overnight not during day (Suunto does offer resources which is sort of like garmin's body battery and also sort of does take stress (based off hrv) into account) - for the same reason - too many drivers could be impacting it; Coros does offer a manual record too like Garmin does. Also when you think about it the purpose of Apples all day HRV is around recovery - the other brands provide a host of other metrics that do a similar think i.e. Garmin's recovery metric; training status, and training readiness --- basically providing that data is an easier to use , simplified format (and all include HRV as part of the data that is used to determine their values).

HRV logging - its on in case I ever need it /want it - if you don't log it you can't go back and get it. Yes needs chest strap as optical HR generally isn't accurate enough to get an accurate R-R interval detection. Apps - garmin connect app store only shows the apps that are available for you watch. What I loved about the connect iq web version is you could see all the apps and then send a message to a dev to extend to your model as generally they didn't always update for new models. However since they have stupidly closed the web version of the store its now much harder to find those apps (use web search now). Alpha HRV wouldn't help you anyway as it also requires a chest strap in particular the polar h9 / H10 or garmin hrm pro. They tend to only recommend these straps as these have been validated by platforms that do HRV during an activity and thus are known to provide accurate r-r intervals. Performance Condition: [https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-2CF5620C-E585-4E0A-9CC3-9565533EEE4D/EN-US/GUID-7556D1C8-1685-43B9-A091-D43D2F719F1F.html](https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-2CF5620C-E585-4E0A-9CC3-9565533EEE4D/EN-US/GUID-7556D1C8-1685-43B9-A091-D43D2F719F1F.html) V4 does have it has a metric, so you could pull it in as a data field on your tracking screens on the watch. But that is about as good as its going to get unless you go chest strap. Always find its a compromise finding right watch - and as already stated don't really know of any watch that does what you want - as stated tech's not really there yet to set it up the way you want. Samsung features require latest samsung phone (though its normally possible to sideload onto other android phones but can be slightly challenging) - also they have heavy region locks so would also need to know that its not locked in your country/regioni cause if it is then there is no joy - can't do what you can with garmin where ccan spoof to unlock feature and once unlocked will work anywhere (i.e. ECG).

Do not even consider the Lily - insult to women. The Venu3 is a good choice if you insist on going wth Garmin but the Apple Watch is a better choice. Maybe you should ask her what she would prefer.

The Lily is what Garmin thinks women want - they put GPS into the Lily 2 Active - still an insult to women. I don't count steps lol I understand that many find it a valuable metric but personally I see no meaningful value in it.

Garmin lacks watches that are designed for woman that provide rich data sets and instead makes the Lily which lacks robust training data - it is a Fashion watch. Women train just like men and want robust training data on a watch that does not look cheap and in the tackiest of colours. The Lily 2 Active is a step up from the Lily 2 but is still as what one other poster said - a watch you take to the office so your step count stays accurate, it isn't a watch you train with. It is dainty and feminine of course but it fails on so many level to be an actually viable fitness watch. Garmin designs and makes watches to suit men.

Saying that the Lily is an insult to women is not an insult to you or anyone who uses that watch personally it is a statement about how Garmin views women. You are correct in that not all women train like men but they can train like men so why shouldn't they have a watch that is designed for them that has all those features? The Lily is clearly designed for women and Garmin purposely chooses to give it basic fitness features. There are no aesthetically pleasing small watches with all the training features that are designed with women in mind. Garmin has made a pretty watch but failed to give it the more robust features that many women want and to get the data they want they are stuck with ugly oversized watches with tacky colours. That is what makes the Lily an insult to women.

Yes and you can sync another app in the Garmin connect to log food. I récommend Garmin Lily 2 Active with GPS.