Epson - Pro Cinema LS12000 4K PRO-UHD Laser Projector

LS12000 fits the bill. That’s what I have, no regrets! Just make sure you get an appropriate sized screen.

I think you can get an ls12000 for closer to 4k if you message dealers. I think some discount off MSRP is common. I just bought one from a private seller off AVS forum for $2,800 and couldn't be happier. It's much closer to a TV than my other projector in image quality but it's still not going to match a TV for e.g., solid HDR. I would much prefer this projector and 120-in screen to even a 77-in OLED unless I'm sitting extremely close.  Also, if you are willing to invest a little bit more and make some trade-offs, you could get an AVR screen which makes poor light control less of an issue (but there are some compromises).

You will be very underwhelmed with the lifestyle options when coming from a solid home theater designed model. DLP may match the contrast of your old 8350, but the most comparable model to the 8350 today would be the Epson 4010. Better is their 5050UB, or LS11000/LS12000 series of projectors. Those are the direct upgrades to the 8350. The lack of zoom and lens shift means you are basically using keystone correction and digital zoom to make the image fit your screen. This loses resolution as well as light output when in use. Always. And should be avoided. It is still a personal decision, but I wouldn't expect you to feel like it is an upgrade in the least. But, you may be happy to live with it so you can put the projector where you want it.

NZ500 first, Sony second, Epson LS12000 third. Then the BenQ models which will struggle with black levels. I'd likely get a Valerion over the JVC models at that price point. No question, I would always go for a JVC in a good theater.

Try to find out just how many total hours the projector has run or how many bulbs it’s had. Each bulb has up to 4000hrs max possible use. That total times no of bulbs will give you an idea of its total projector usage. Is the seller an enthusiast or just selling old stock. Try to judge who is selling and do the seen trustworthy. All this I would do. It’s your money and your judgement call. I don’t know what you can afford or budget of course. Obviously a remote opinion without seeing and using the PJ is guesswork I have an Epson LS12000 and IF the one you’re looking at is good and genuine you might get a bargain. Don’t forget it’s upwards of 15 years old now with all that implies If you do go for try to think (like placing any bet) it may fail on you. Regardless Good luck!

I own an LS12000 but to be honest for the price of the upgrade now I’d go for another JVC (previously had one) I got the LS12k for an absolute steal but otherwise it’s JVC for my money. I have the Epson dialled in to my liking and it has some great feature but…

No it’s not but having one I defy you to see any real world difference at MSP. (I’ve owned JVC 4k too) as it’s 4x shift there are very few obvious signs. I:e https://preview.redd.it/bll565978bpe1.jpeg?width=3752&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa161f869d729b96eb29fa54b16176b5210da98f This is an iphone still from my screen. Slight blur as it’s just a paused image. Zoom in and see the detail - especially the yellow fabric

LS12000 120”

You’re correct about accuracy. (I own an LS12000 for context). Sadly, those looking at ewaste projectors are rarely interested in the details of £3 -&4000 up projector specs. So I think in context of that “The Hook up” is “valuable” to such folk. Education has to start somewhere.

I say JVC (as an ls12000 owner!) you will get better black levels - if that’s important to you. I think from owning both the colours are slightly better on Epson. If you’re a gamer then the Epson does 120hz and the latency is below 20ms - no low latency on the JVC. But only you can judge which in the end. I got a very good deal on the Epson (£2k off) so it was a no brainier. Had that not been on, I’d have got JVC in a heartbeat. [NZ500 review](https://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-NZ500-Projector-Review.htm) [LS12000 review](https://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-Pro-Cinema-LS12000-Laser-Projector-Review.htm)

Well, that’s essentially what I have currently due to renting and space constraints. (I previously had a far bigger space) I’m happy with my LS12000 and small screen. Not ideal, but it works for me. An appropriate seating distance can still be immersive. Again not ideal but if (when) we move a bigger screen is easy.

Oh stop it with the guilt! You’ve made a great choice. I love my Epson LS12000, but compared to my old JVC I miss the later for black levels. ( The Epson is better in other respects as no system is perfect) Just enjoy or the guilt will never leave! Alternatively give it to me, I’ll give it a good home.

I bought a second hand but new (0hrs) LS12000 for just under £3000. Have a good search or look at Epson’s own refurbished units. Alternatively, look at JVC if you happy to go elsewhere. Usually plenty of marketplace units about (like AVSforum.) If you’re full light controlled I don’t think the lumens will be a problem at all. Better contrast on JVC will compensate.

LS 12000 - I have one. In fact I also have Wharfedales (4.4 with a 5 for centre) like it look you have. Great combination.

Epson LS12000 does 4k 120hz. Check the Epson site for Epson refurbished units for a more budget friendly price. Also AVSforum (USA) marketplace or Avforum (UK) Classifieds.

I have no issues there. As for shifting its 4x so if you can REALLY tell the difference I concede. I’m assuming you have seen comparisons in the flesh to comment? You did hit the nail on price, but I paid £2900 for my Epson so a steal really. Mine tests under 20ms. I have owned JVC but the point is that the OP might not have the budget for high end 4k.

I own one too, and while it is pixel shifted 4k, the picture is absolutely bright and beautiful and worth every penny I spent on it.

A refurb is $4200, so not too far off the mark and it's well worth it.

If you can afford an extra couple hundred bucks you could pick up an Epson LS12000 refurb.

I have an LS12000 and am happy with it but the JVCs are supposed to be better particularly contrast and tone mapping for HDR. The cheaper JVCs laser weren’t available when I bought mine and the price difference was a bit too high at the time. The only thing is I wouldn’t go bulb if that is your option for the JVC in your price range.

Also lenses shift is very useful if you don’t have full control of where you can place your projector.

I went with a LS12000 and am happy. You can usually pick one up for around AUD$7500 without much trouble. You may / probably will be able to get it a bit cheaper if you try.

To be fair, the Epson is known for this green shift. Sure, it can be corrected with calibration and by lowering the brightness, but at the max luminance, it is always present. Still, from a purchaser's perspective, needing to make those adjustments is a downside when you're looking at it from the average user's perspective. Also, the whole reason he made a second video was to satisfy LS12000 owners who were disappointed by the first comparison. This isn't a case of valerion owners convincing him to sabotage the LS12000, he used the settings he was told to be LS12000 owners both times. I’m not saying the Valerion is better than the LS12000 or the other way around. The point was to show how both perform out of the box without calibration, which is how most people will actually use them. The Hook Up could have explained that a little more clearly, but that doesn’t make the comparison invalid.

I have the same issue in an undedicated room with a little light and chose the Elitescreen 3D variant thinking the ALR screen will have a meaningful effect. It definitely looks good head on, but starts to lose brightness 10ft or so off-center, and is watchable up to 70deg. However, since my projector is a JVC NP5, it doesn't get bright enough to overcome a majority of the light that falls on my screen, so the ALR isn't really a feature that's needed IMO. If I could do it all over, I would just get the cinegrey and not deal with any speckling or hot-spotting. And yes, there is a major difference between the LS11000 and Ls12000, as long at you watch at night, your black levels will be vastly darker on the latter. I had the LS11000 for awhile and returned it because the blacks were a muddy Grey, and I prefer contrast over brightness.

You really need to get the brands on the audio system components, there are plenty of terrible speakers people will try to sell you. Back to your question though. Ways to take $10K out of the system: \* Go with a LS12000 for $5k - amazing projector \* Go with a Silver Ticket screen for \~$1k - great screen, doubt you'd notice a difference from the one they're trying to sell you \* Get rid of the "Powerquest 2" and go with a regular surge protector \* Drop the protection plan

The new laser JVC is also $5-grand-something. It's either the Sony or the JVC. I have an Epson, I like my Epson a lot, but LCoS tech vs 3LCD? LCoS wins. On black level alone both the LCoS units will dominate. Contrast, too, dynamic contrast can only do so much, it's native contrast that's the clincher.

You'll get more light out of it, but the Sony is still no doubt a pretty capable unit. 60000:1 contrast and SXRD (LCoS) tech should translate to a fantastic picture with great black level. The 1000 lumen capacity somewhat lets it down but in a darkened room perhaps not so much. Based on the numbers the fan is also silent. Epson are known for having vacuum cleaner like fans. My own UST Epson is unbearable on 100%, but thankfully quite pleasant at 70% power. Even then it's a lot louder than the 22 db your Sony claims. There's frankly a real possibility you'll be disappointed. And returning the item may be legally fine but it would be a hassle to say the least. Going from a liquid crystal on silicon projector to triple transmissive LCD is going backwards insofar as projector technology is concerned. So, maybe you want to consider looking into a newer unit with that technology instead, with more light output and 4K. JVC's D-ILA is one option, and Sony SXRD obviously. They're a bit pricier but the entry level JVC isn't truly brutal. The LS12000 is a fine projector, but light levels aside I don't think you'd necessarily be entirely pleased by the drawbacks you might experience. At a mere (in this context) 110 inch screen, you might also be a candidate for an ultra short throw, and an ALR screen. For instance the new Nexigo Aurora Pro MK II and a new Fresnel or lamellar ambient light rejecting screen. The ALR screen for UST projectors is insanely good at rejecting ambient light, and the projectors are getting good. The PX3-Pro being another (top notch) option. You could even go with the Aurora Pro without a MK and pay $2000 usd for the projector, the 110 inch screen should be easily under a thousand. If there's space on the wall, a 120 too. A 132 ALR from Nothing Projector is just a little north of a grand (132 being the largest screen out there that is seamless). Going beyond 132 in size would be doubtful with an USD.

Intersting review. I'm sure it's a great projector, but the pricing is wack for a unit that's a minimal upgrade on the LS12000. If I weren't so into UST's now I'd rather buy a Valerion Max tbh. And I would, based on that unit alone, dispute that there's nothing comparable in the price range, on paper all the stats of the Visionmaster Max dropkicks the QB1000 into a well, "300" and "this is Sparta!" style. Half the price, four times the contrast (according to them - but the Visionmaster Pro 2 almost lived up to their claims).

I have the Xbox series x in my theater room for gaming and movie watching on a Nvidia shield pro. Projector is the Epson LS12000. Projector screen is 120". Gaming is absolutely fine if viewing at an adequate distance. Personally I still game on my computer in my office. But my kids absolutely love it. I think the screen is too large for some FPS games here and there but it's gorgeous when trying to immerse yourself in something like an RPG like Hogwarts legacy or some other game that has the potential to look good.

I upgraded to LS12000 from 5040ub and it was a gigantic upgrade. Much crisper, brighter and quieter (plus no quickly dimming bulbs). Highly recommend.

I upgraded to LS12000 from 5040UB and it’s been a huge upgrade. Much (much) brighter, quieter, sharper and obviously no bulb changing. Over 2000 hours on it and I haven’t noticed any dimming at all. In my own subjective, personal opinion it’s been everything I wanted.

Without hesitation the ls12000

I just got the LS12000 last week. No regrets! I’m using a 150” screen

I love my LS12000! Being black definitely didn’t hurt it

There are deals out there. I got a new LS12000 for under $4,000

BenQ W5800 is stunning but definitely go for the LS12000 for the HDMI 2.1 and powered lens cover

The contrast of the 12000 and 6050 are very close with edge going to 6050.  The 12000 is sharper with better hdr handling, laser light source, and you can change brightness in small steps with it being silent at 80%.  There is a new qb1000 which costs a lot more and I haven’t seen yet

I have an LS12000 on a 120" screen and it's spectacular. The 120 is the max usable size for my space. All that occurs to me is that with your space and a 100" screen, that puppy gonna be awesome bright, and subjectively better blacks. I prefer Severtson to Stewart, but they are both very good surfaces. Epson uses Zeiss glass for the prisms in their top end projectors, and the colors are amazing, so count me as a vote for the LS12000

Just installed the LS12000 and am very pleased. I don’t game much, but the kids play PS and the picture is great on the PS5.

Check lamp hours, See how may hours you have on it. But the LS12000 would be your upgrade.

It is 2.1 (I own one) but he’s correct about it being not a native 4K image. 

Agree. It’s the best projector in its price range atm 

You say budget isn’t a concern, but balked at $10k. Which is totally reasonable, but I think it’s important to set expectations. There is a sea of not-particularly-good projectors under $5k. At $5k you have a few decent options where color volume and black levels significantly improve. Above that, things sort of jump to $10k, where black levels and color volume either continue to improve or at least stay flat, but brightness increases. Above $10k, things explode in to the 10s of thousands. Largely for the purpose of going really big (165”+) and of course the Christie Eclipse at $400kish. This also doesn’t factor in the screen, which can cost as little as $300 and as much as $6k or more. Given you aren’t willing to properly light control, but need good brightness, image quality, fan noise, and low input lag, you’re going to have a hard time hitting all of that under $10k. I would have serious reservations about getting excited for HDR. You might find SDR content looks better. A JVC NP5, Sony XW5000ES, or Epson LS12000, and Epson QB1000 should all be on a shortlist. There are plenty of comparisons between them. Pair one of those with a positive gain ALR screen and you should have a good experience *most of the time*. Ultimately though, these still prefer a dark room, and the ALR screen will largely combat light colored ceiling and walls. You could also look at UST projectors. These kick out a shit load of light, though usually at the expense of contrast in a dark room. UST screens tend to offer better ALR effects as well. I like the new Epson QS100, as well as the LS800, but I’ve heard good things about the Hisense. Realistically though, you should strongly consider a 100-115” TV.

I just got the Switch 2 and played Mario Kart World on my LS12000B and the colors almost popped my eyes out! 😆 Much has been said about this unit and all of it is true - perfect jack of all trades for movies and 4K/120Hz gaming!

Go for it! I use an LS12000 to project onto a 92“ screen because of room constraints and I love it! Seating distance around 9‘.

Nice setup! I moved from an Optoma UHD35x to an Epson LS12000B and I‘m very happy with it. Around 50/50 movies and PC/Switch gaming. The input lag is very reasonable, it‘s quiet and the 120Hz mode is also a plus. But as others have mentioned - use the projection calculator for this space to make sure you can use it. Best of luck on your journey! :)

I am happy with the LS12000 but I wasn’t in the first few weeks as it seemed to take forever to dial it in to look good. In my experience it is not plug and play. You will need a lot of patience and take time to learn the settings to get the best out of it. https://preview.redd.it/tqtfhzw7u1me1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88d31c1c2a7c473def7842deea3c4c478bc29a76

JVC is the way to go if it’s a light controlled room. If not, get the Epson LS12000. The QB1000 is so massively overpriced for what you get that it’s comical.

If you’ve got $6,000 to invest, get the LS12000 and a really nice screen and maybe even a really nice dennon or Onkyo 11 or 9 channel receiver to go with it Edit: I know OP mentioned a specific Hicese UST projectors but I’ve read stuff about a screen lottery, and just personally I’d go with a brand that has reliable quality I.e. Epson

if you were spending up for a top of the line 115" Tv sure it would be worth considering, but at that price you could also upgrade the projection setup and probably be even happier. While the TVs have significantly higher peak brightness than most projection setups, they also have the disadvantages of mini-leds, which is imperfect blacks and splotchy dark scene performance. I'd go with something like the LS12000 and upgrade the screen too, just picking the right surface can drastically change the performance of the projector. with the extra brightness the epson is capable of you can get a darker screen for better contrast, colour and black levels for example.

A $4000 LS12000 is pixel shift 4k, and it sure looks damn good still.

I honestly think you’d be delighted with the LS12000 from Epson.  The QB1000 is slightly better, but without having them side by side you wouldn’t be able to tell. Hell my jaw drops whenever I turn on my Epson 5050ub.

LS12000 owner here: it’s great , I have mine connected to a PS5 Pro and GOW, FF 7 rebirth and TLoU all have high frame rate modes and make the game look smoother imo, with the PS5 Pro I can have high frame rate and high resolution so best of both worlds but as far as screen tearing I don’t notice it. If you’re thinking about it I’d say go for it, I’m not aware of anything announced that will beat its value.

All I can say is the LS1200 was designed for gaming and it shows when you use it. HDMI 2.1, 4K120, Fast processing mode for low input lag, enough brightness for daytime viewing and scene adaptive gamma that Kinda works like HGiG. Maybe Dlp projectors have better motion, I dunno I’ve always owned and gamed on Epson projectors and never had an issue with one. I have a Samsung S90C 77” QD-OLED and I game on that sometimes and my Epson is a step behind it in every way but I still prefer the immersion of 120 inch screen and go back to the Epson. What dlp long throw projector will give you the gaming features of Epson and pictures quality for your movies like Epson , unless you go and pay double or triple for JVC or Sony and those struggle to be bright enough for daytime viewing. Also, no dlp can do 4k120 yet.

I have the LS12000 and game on it. It's exactly the sweet spot for movies and gaming, imo. It has the high refresh and low latency you need, and also looks fantastic.

LS12000 is great for gaming. Use the other 5k on audio upgrades.

We have the LS12000.... Mmmmmm. Two thumbs up. Would buy again.

No idea, mine is light controlled. I keep it on while shooting pool, though and can still easily see the picture. But if we go into cinema-mode. Lights out!

10k for projector is a lot. As someone said, epson ls 12000 or 11000 are great quality laser projectors, even though not native 4k. You probably need to better receiver like a Marantz Cinema 50 or 60 or a comparable Denon. Not sure which brand of screens is included either but looks overpriced

Sony VPL-XW5000ES Projector when it’s on sale or an epson LS 12000

I pledged for the Valerion Max because of the Kickstarter pricing, as an early adopter I’m all in for around $2K. If I had your budget I’d probably go for the LS12000. Proven performer, solid company with worldwide support, parts. Epson is in the holy trinity of HT projector manufacturers for good reasons.

If Tone Mapping is a factor, LS12000 needs an external video processor maximize picture quality. QB1000 addresses this but both LS12000+MadVR and QB1000 peak over budget. https://youtu.be/xyp0DG-uSkw?si=WNBYwQPOOGfkyLWI LS12000 vs Pro 2 in rematch head to head. This is just a calibrated LS12000 without an external video processor. The brightness of the Pro 2 competes directly with LS12000 and presents better tone mapping by my eye as well as contrast with the help of valerion’s EBL. Expect better image and contrast with Max over Pro 2, though it’s only been shown at CES to the public as there are no review units yet.

JVC wins in black levels and is best with 4K Blu-ray. Sony is a close second but much better with processing, detail, streaming, motion, sports, and gaming. Epson is brighter, but is insanely green. Once you have it accurately calibrated the brightness drops off lower than the Sony or JVC with none of the benefits.

I'm in a similar spot, and also went with the Epson LS12000, which I absolutely love. I have several OLED tvs as well, and while it's not an OLED, the black levels are amazing for a projector. But my head's kind of in the same place. This will possibly be my last projector if I can get a 110" quality OLED in 5 years for $5k.

I’d find out the max channels the room is set up for and get a good receiver than can accommodate that. Then slowly grow into it over time with added speakers. I had a similar situation. The home theater was wired for 15 channels! So I spent the extra $$ to get a nice receiver but only wired up 5 channels to start (and 2 subs). I’ve been adding 2 channels every few months and I’m up to 11 right now. I dunno if I really need 4 more speakers at this point so I’m happy where I am. I also got an Epson LS12000. The initial spend felt like a lot but we make up for it by almost never going to a movie theater anymore.

I made this swap back in 2012. I really only used our TV for movies in the evening, so switching to a projector had few downsides. I’m a big fan of the large screen and find projected images easier on my eyes. Currently using an LS12000. It would not work well if I wanted to watch TV during the day such as broadcast news.

You can get Epson LS12000. It has a laser source and does 4k100 and 4k120 (no VRR or g/freesync though). I’s probably the most recommended projector for home theaters in this price range. LS11000 is cheaper, but has a bit lower brightness and worse black levels. Still a good gaming and movie projector

I have the Epson LS12000 and it does 4k/120 and has relatively low lag for a projector.

The Epson will have an edge for a few reasons: The LS12000 is a 3-chip projector and doesn’t need to separately display each color through a wheel. As a result, you won’t get the rainbow effect that occurs on high contrast subjects with single chip DLP projectors. The LS12000 is also not a trying to be a lifestyle projector, its purpose designed to project a big bright image. Size/weight/portability is not really a consideration for dedicated HT units, so there aren’t compromises made to achieve a smaller form factor or lighter weight.

JVC DLA-NP5, Epson LS12000, Sony XW5000ES, Hisense PX2-PRO

For me, the DLA-NP5 over the NZ500 mainly comes down to contrast and price. The NP5 is a native 4K projector with JVC’s excellent D-ILA tech, giving it some of the best black levels in its class. The NZ500 is laser-based, which means longer lifespan and instant on/off, but the contrast isn’t quite as good as the NP5, and at this price point, lamp-based still wins for pure image quality in a dark room. If you’re set on laser, the NZ7 might be the better step up. For the LS12000 vs. QB1000B, the LS12000 is simply the better-known and more widely recommended home theater option. It’s got great brightness, solid black levels (for an Epson), and excellent sharpness. The QB1000B isn’t as commonly discussed in home theater circles—if it’s the model I’m thinking of, it might be more business-oriented and not optimized for dark-room movie watching. I’d say the LS12000 is a safer bet for a dedicated setup like you described

I did too and didn’t try very hard.

The ls12000 has HDMI 2.1 and does 4k HDR @120Hz but doesn't support vrr. Curious to see how much better gaming would be on this.

I have an ls12000 primarily for gaming and while it is awesome, it lacks vrr. I would avoid it for long term gaming. I haven't kept up with projectors since I got the Epson but there may be better options with vrr nowadays.

no i don't believe it is your paying extra for the short through. I think my LSI12000 is pretty bad ass

That sounds awesome. The ls12000 is my first and I’m pretty blown away by the thing. I think the bulb would tweak that frugality part of my personality. Like if it started to dim, and I knew it was getting dimmer, but didn’t want to spend the money on a new one, because “this one isn’t dead yet.” I think that mental process would hamper my enjoyment of it. Edit: I know a laser will dim also over time, but my suspicion is that it happens much more gradually. I use the thing quite a lot.

Playing on an Epson LS12000 - after dialing in HDR with HDTV test's settings it runs like a dream with with HDR and 120FPS

Can confirm - gaming on it is awesome

At this price point i'd probably go for the JVC NZ500. If you want the Epson go with the LS12000 instead, 90% of the performance for 60% of the price

He's full of it. The LS12000 is HDMI 2.1 and would be much better for gaming since it handles motion better than the Sony does. Yes the black level is not as good but the Sony is not $5,000 better. If you want true 4k and better black levels than the Epson go with NZ500, which is still $3500 cheaper than his Sony.

Valerion does not have VRR. LS12000 has 5000:1 native contrast (25k:1 dynamic) vs the Valerion 2000:1 native (10k:1 dynamic). Epson won't have RBE for people who are sensitive to it. Valerion is a great value, but there are still benefits Epson can offer.

Order screen samples for your screen. Don’t go off of random advice. There is some subjectivity based off of your room, projector, and viewing distance. At your budget SilverTicket is the best option for screens. They’ll run about $500. You can get a pack of samples shipped for like $10. 133” is a weird choice. Just bump to 135” and you’ll have more screen options as that’s a standard size. 133” is not. At 135” THX recommended viewing angle is at 15.1 feet from the screen. If you’re going to be closer than that I’d play around with a viewing angle calculator and consider a 120”. If your budget is $6k, I’d stretch (or find a sale) for the JVC NZ500 which will outperform the Sony and Epson. If you’re strict at $6k, drop to the Epson only if you game a lot. Otherwise the Sony will be better. I’d also consider a Valerion in that range. The Max will be out soon and there are units available for cheap from Kickstarter backers who will sell for a profit but still less than retail. I’d honestly step up to a refurb x3800 from A4L ($1200). I’d buy 2 x RSL Speedwoofer 12s ($1600). That leaves you $3700 for speakers (and $6500 for pj/screen). I’d recommend Ascend Sierra-2EX V2s as L/R ($1698), 2EX V2 Center ($868) and Sierra-1 V2 as your surrounds ($998). If you save some money somewhere or decide to stretch budget get 4 overhead speakers. RSL CL-34 MKIIs are excellent and $150 each, so another $600 for all 4. You will be able to drive 5.2.4 with the x3800 Even in a pitch black room it’s worth painting the wall the screen is on and the ceiling black. I recommend Sherwin Williams Tricorn black (flat for the ceiling, matte for the wall).

I guess that it depends on your definition of "really good." I was going through this process with a friend. He's setting up his first HT and I was planning to upgrade mine. He got an Epson LS12000. I think it's a really good projector. He has a dedicated windowless HT with dark grey walls and ceiling. After looking at his and checking out some OK 100" TVs, I concluded that the 100" TVs are far better for UHD content. It's not even close. The TV has much deeper blacks and is about 5 times brighter. Now if you're going for a much bigger screen - say a 120" or 135" screen vs a 100", visual impacts starts to play a big role. But that's not what the OP is doing.

Not an expert but at that screen size the steps up probably will not get you much noticeable improvements. There is the Bravia 8 at $16k, but the most obvious improvement is going to be brightness, which is already plenty high enough in the Bravia 7. The extra brightness might make a difference with HDR content, but other factors like screen type and ambient (or reflected) light might make a bigger difference, negating any potential improvements the extra $6k bought you. Some of this might change with a significantly bigger screen where you could more easily pick out the differences. Again, no expert, but I think the 7, and the JVC equivalent (NZ700) are probably the best mix of price/performance for 95% of the “I want to do this right, but I can’t just burn money” crowd. The LS12000 is probably another great option as it is about half the price, although I have a significant preference for the way Sony reproduces motion and colors.

A large monitor (like a 98” TCL) could be an option for you. They are heavy and require multiple people to install, and if you ever move to a larger room 98” is all you will have (vs. a projector).I personally am a fan of projectors - the LS12000 would be my pick for this.

The 12000 is brighter with better tone mapping, and a little better contrast. So to be clear, the contrast will be a little better. The tone mapping will be a little better. The colors will be the same among all these projectors relatively speaking to the naked eye ….so if it was just contrast, I’m really curious exactly what your impressions were of the 9000 because other than the JVC contrast there’s not gonna be a lot of difference for you.

I can't recommend anything capable of projecting in full daylight because I don't have a need for that. I have a dedicated room with full light control. I can tell you that I use an Epson LS12000 which is 2700 lumens and I can leave some dim lights on for less serious viewing. It is noticeably washed out but still viewable if I open the curtains, but this window never gets full sun. It is also large and weighs like 50lbs so nowhere near portable and I'd never expect it to perform well in broad daylight.

I game on an Epson LS12000 currently and it's fantastic. 4k 120hz HDR10+ and full RGB 10-bit color. It has a "fast" and "fine" processing mode toggle and even on "fine" I never notice any input lag in 99% of games. The only time I ever switch to "fast" is for certain rhythm games (some are totally ok on "fine") like Hatsune Mike Project Diva Megamix. Never been an issue in any FPS, RPG, action, or any other type of game I've played. Prior to that, I gamed on a JVC RS15U and never had issues with input lag on that either. The only reason I upgraded was to get 4k, HDR, and more brightness. Last TV I owned/gamed on was a Panasonic plasma (55" GT50) which I loved for the picture, but the 120" image was worth the switch. Plus the LS12000 I have now looks just as good try to me as the plasma TV did.

Nice, i love those wharfedale evo, are the 4.3, Aren’t them? However, i’ll say ls12000 without esitation

I have an Epson 3700 on a 150” 1.1 gain screen. It just is bright enough with a new bulb. Tried the Epson LS12000 - too dim and returned. A new Optima was just released rated at 5000 lumens. Also considering a 1.3 gain Stewert screen

The only one that will light that size adequately for under $10K is the Epson QB1000. I tried the Epson LS12000 too dim in dynamic mode for 165” 16:9. The 500 extra lumens of the QB1000 was perfect. JVCs will all be way too dim for large screens

True, but at 165” neither the Ls12000 or Valerion would give a comfortable viewing experience. I returned the 12000 for the QB and am very happy with it. Your critique of projectors would be much different if you were viewing at 165” instead of 120”. If I had a 120” I would go Sony or JVC for sure

What size is your room? It appears they priced this like a car dealership being told to price a sports car. It's a vague request without knowing what you may want or need. This isn't an insult in anyway. Just that you have to be a little specific. A lot of what is listed is overkill. 1. The projector, while nice, can probably be substituted by a nice, but cheaper JVC NZ500 or even Epson LS1200. There are others to mention here, but for half the price of the Sony listed you will get an excellent projector. 2. You need to find out what screen is being used. I really hope that's a Stewart or SI screen for that price. Screen type and material are debatable, so I will say that you could still probably save some money with the screen. 3. The HDMI cable is AudioQuest and it's overpriced. I have purchased fiber HDMI cables from Amazon for a 35ft run and they are flawless. Don't believe the snake oil that's out there about cables. It's a rabbit hole. 4. The remote and controller system is over the top. In reality, it's "nice", but not necessary. With smart apps, you can control lights, devices, etc. from your phone. You can even setup actions with Alexa or Google. 5. I would like to know the speaker brands. The cost and type of speaker can vary greatly. Just putting down generic names makes me think these guys are selling you bulk speakers for large profit margins. These are probably MSRP Klipsch speakers, and the SUB is probably an SVS PB1000PRO. I have more concerns about inwalls for your LCR, but that is deviating from the topic at hand. 6. Line item 15 is an overpriced cable. You can get a high-quality cable for half that. Refer to number 3. 7. Line item 16 is another overpriced cable. A horribly overpriced cable. Refer to number 3. 8. High quality projector mounts are needed for expensive projectors (weight, ability to micro adjust). However, you need to know what brand and model they use. These mounts can usually be found for half off on eBay. I bought a peerless mount for my HT 2 years ago used. It's a $150 plus dollar mount that I got for $40. 9. Lastly, that warranty is overpriced. The devices and speakers already have warranties. While this warranty is 5 years, Im wondering what it covers? The labor is subjective. I can't speak to your room dynamics when it comes to setting up, pulling cable, calibration etc. There is a lot of unnecessary money being spent in the items I listed.

Epson LS12000 has all that. I have one and primarily game on it, also has “LLM” but they call it “fast” processing , 19ms lag. Highly recommend it .

Sorry, I’m wrong , NO 3D on Epson LS12000. Hisense UST claim 4k120 but don’t project it. Try a JVC

Used 5050UB, Epson LS11000, Epson LS12000

The ls11000 is a great unit but for $500 more you can get a manufacturer refurbished ls12000 with full warranty. As another commenter said, the np5 is a great unit and is currently at $4,000 but it is not laser. I’d be happy to get into details with you about all of the options; shoot me a DM if interested.

ProjectorScreen.com has manufacturer refurbished LS12000 with full 3 year warranty which should come in at under $4k when bundled with a screen. Feel free to DM me

The Hisense will have more vibrant colors because it’s triple laser but will also have some rainbow effect and laser speckle; but not everyone is bothered by those things. Both are super solid options, so it may come down to where you would rather have the projector “mounted” in your room. I have both of these in our showroom And happy to get into more details/questions about them and help you decide which may be best for you; feel free to DM me

The LS12000 is "Good enough" during the day. But in practice, you will likely find that you will always want to close the curtains and turn off the lights. The difference in contrast is tenfold.

I would hold off on the project at 10k lol. Minimum of 20k+. An LS12000 is 5k by itself, which would be a solid entry level-premium projector. I like JVC and the big boy epson’s better though.

get rid of that silly protection plan. The 5100es has a 3 year warranty, the svs has 5 years. Speakers in general won't give you any issues. Get something like an Epson 12000 or Sony 5000es. Both are cheaper and you'll likely be very satisfied with them. Saving money on the projector and removing the warranty, you could get a nicer subwoofer like the svs 3000 (or go with two!), name brand speakers, and a much better receiver. I'd really consider looking for a second quote.

Be sure to check the throw distance with those projector options, they're all longer throw than the UHD50X. I looked at the LS12000 to replace my UHD50X and it would not have worked because of the throw distance required. I ended up with the Valeron VisionMaster (Pro2 soon to be Max) and it was a huge upgrade from the UHD50X. Otherwise check projector central for reviews, which includes input lag. Random thought about the front speakers, the towers are pretty high, I'm guessing the tweeters are 5 feet high? Maybe they could be turned upside down so the tweeter is closer to ear level when seated. Also there might be crazy reflections off the cabinets on the sides from the L and R, packing that area with acoustic treatment may make it sound a bit better.

Depends on usage. If gaming is a factor at all the JVC is an immediate non starter with the huge input lag and non ALLM mode and the Sony at that price point doesn’t support 4k 120. Only the epson does both

All JvCs are terrible for gaming with very high input lag (40Ms+) at least with no low latency mode. Best bet is epson LS12000 or spring for the qb1000 or go with the older Sony models around 6k but they don’t support 4k120.

I skimped on the LS11000 and wish I had spent the extra $1K for the higher contrast in the LS12000 in my dedicated room. But with 120 Hz refresh rate and 20 ms response time, the LS11000 is still excellent at both gaming and movies.

I think "worth it" is in the eye of the beholder, and the holder of the bank account. Unless I see them side by side, I'll probably never know the answer to your question. I just wish my blacks were a bit blacker, and I think the 2X contrast ratio of the LS12000 would satisfy that desire. Or maybe I just need a darker screen to help with that? I dunno.

This is my setup I was debating - also considered the Marantz. I have not posted since finishing it but have meant to. 5.1.4 LS12000 / x3800h/KEF ls50 meta surrounds (overkill)/KEF ci3160 LCR/ SVS PB-1000 Pro/ screen is Seymour and I drop it in front of a lg g series oled on a trigger. Throw is 12 feet gives me a good image at 126inches do make sure you use projector centrals throw calculator. Saw your other post on the quote while it is a decent price I got my ls12000 brand new at 3999. Feel free to DM if you want to chat could just be the differences in our location.

If the original owner registered it, it’s likely not transferable. They could possibly work with you to get the registration transferred to you, but I’d guess that it’s unlikely. Aside from the warranty issue, and assuming there aren’t any glaring issues, I’d say 1,800 hours for $3.4k on an LS12k is a good deal. It should run well for another 10k-15k+ hours.

I love my LS12000 (and was equally impressed by that opening scene from Star Trek lol) Just to note on the mention of the JVCs black levels vs. brightness of the LS12k, there was a post over on AVS Forum where a group of 12 or so guys got together and compared them side by side. About 9 of them preferred the vibrancy of the LS12K to the superior black levels of the JVC. I thought it was interesting since a majority of people say the JVC is the better unit.

To be clear, this isn’t 4k native. It uses pixel shifting to generate the display. I have the older LS12000 and truly love it, but it’s not native 4k. I suspect the LS12000 can be had for a fraction of the cost with VERY similar performance.

Check with local hifi stores. I got my LS12000 new for less than the LS11000 is listed for on Amazon.

Ok- hear me out… I’ve got the LS12000 - predecessor to the QB1000. With the QB1000 supporting dynamic tone mapping, that’s a nice win for reducing the amount of “fiddling” to get hdr to look right. But… Over the past year, I’ve played the Dolby LLDV tone mapping trick with an HD Fury - and while it works, recognize no projector has nearly the light output for something like a TV HDR experience. I’ve used lots of input devices, played with always on LLDV, followed lots of guides on calibration and settings recommendations. Ultimately I went to SDR for my projector viewing. There are a few reasons. 1) the projector “bonk” between SDR and hdr was long on the Epson. Like almost 10 seconds. That’s painful between start and stop of every movie or stream. It got to where I could pick up on the barely audible click of a relay or something and be like “we’re just 5 seconds away from a picture now!” 2) I use the zidoo z9x for local playback. I’ve told the zidoo my projector doesn’t support hdr. The zidoo engages the Dolby VS10 processing engine and dynamically tone maps ALL content - I let it do everything from SDR to Dolby Vision. It looks extremely good. I think HDR had a VERY slight edge if I tweaked settings for each movie, but without spending time getting the dynamic range right every time, the SDR experience is probably 95% of the very best I could ever achieve with hdr. 3) I use Apple TV for streaming. I’m using it to do tone mapping for hdr content for now. I’m not sure if I will stick with this or revert to LLDV for streaming and just accept the bonk when needed. For now, I’m happy enough with SDR and the immediacy of the playback of eliminating HDR. 4) I use a 158” cinescope screen. I use the lens memory of the Epson for a CIH experience. It has worked extremely well for me. I’ve got 16:9 set for lens 1 and 2.39:1 for lens 2. I LOVE the immersion of cinescope. 5) I feel like my quest of seeing the very best I could get (shy of a madvr) was truly worthwhile for me, and I’m glad I spent the time investigating what was possible. I’m REALLY happy with the CONSISTENCY of the image quality now. My wife or kids can turn on a movie and get the same awesome experience whether I’m there or not. That was a huge win for me. If I were buying today, I’d want to see the JVC next to the Epson. JVC has legendary contrast, but the brightness of the Epson is hard to ignore. When watching sports, I like having some ambient lights on as people are getting up more often. That extra light output makes it a good experience for more viewing scenarios. If you are using for dedicated theater viewing in a dark room all the time? My prejudice of seeing JVC reviews vs owning the Epson would point me to the JVC. Just my $0.02. Does the JVC have lens memory? Good luck!!! Some of the most fun I have in this hobby is evaluating options, reading reviews, exploring little-known features, and THEN enjoying my well-researched purchase. I’m a little jealous of all your options! Have fun!!

I’ve been extremely happy with my LS12000.

Contact your local hifi / theater retailer. I picked up an LS12000 new for WELL under $5k.

Consider a ‘scope screen. I found the vertical size is what trigger a feeling of “whoa… that’s too big” but going wider didn’t have too big of an impact. I settled on a 160” 2.35:1 and absolutely love it. I’ve got the LS12000 and really like the lens memory. Now… full disclosure, I went down the rabbit hole of MadVR / videoprocessor with some spare hardware I have. Now that it’s setup with black bar detection, lens memory isn’t even needed as the image is zoomed the appropriate amount automatically. That said, there’s just something about a projector and watching “reflected light” vs a direct lit TV. Anyway, my $0.02…

You really will not be able to tell any difference. I’m 10’ at the front row and 16’ at second row from a 160” cinescope and I’ve been as happy as can be with my LS12000 (pixel shift) projector.

Whether it outperforms the LS12000 is a matter of opinion. They both have different aspects that are better than each other.

The LS12000 has over 2x the native contrast of the Valerion. It also has no rainbow effect while the Valerion has quite a bit. That’s 2 big things the LS12000 has over the Valerion off the top of my head.

The native is not meaningless, that's silly. Native CR is the foundation of the entire image capability. Dynamic CR doesn’t always work or help and it can also cause artifacts and issues like clipping and brightness jumps. Some scenes it improves greatly, some only a small amount, and some not at all. It all depends on the composition of the particular scene. Native still always limits simultaneous on screen contrast for an given image. There are scenes that look better on the LS12000 due to the noticeably higher native CR. RBE is not really able to be mitigated. Some modes lessen the strength of the effect, but not eliminate it. I have seen one of these and the RBE is still quite high even in the mode that has it the lowest. The Hookup is only 1 guy with 1 opinion. I know others who have seen them and have a very different opinion after watching them. I’m a perfect example. I see RBE always on any 1-chip and it bothers me to no end. I also hate dynamic CR systems as I hate the clipping they cause and can see them changing and adjusting and that also distracts me. That’s why I use a JVC in the first place because the native is so high and I can disable dynamic entirely. I have also set up and run multiple public projector comparison rooms on dual 150" screens with hundreds of attendees where you can have a bunch of people in the room say they think projector 1 looks better than projector 2, and others in the room at the same time say they think that 2 looks better than 1. So 1 person's opinion is just that, it's not any sort of definitive result. Also more reasons for the LS12000 include the zoom range and lens shift, all motorized too for lens memory for a scope screen etc. I’ve been using, calibrating, setting up, lots of different home theater projectors for over 15 years now and I’ve seen a lot and know a thing or 2.

I’d take an ls12000 at 120” over a 98” $2000 LCD. There are some 98” LCD that could be passable in quality IMO but they are $5000+ But I’d still take an 120” LS12000 over a $5000 98” LCD.

The price tag makes it a bad value propostion. The LS12000 really should have been this projector at that $5k price point. At the $5k price point, the only reason to get the LS12000 would be for the gaming features such as HDMI 2.1 and 4k @ 120hz refresh rate. Other wise get JVC or Sony. QB1000 being nearly $3000 more is a tough sell for me. Is tone mapping and 600 added lumens really worth $3000 more than LS12000 or Sony 5000es or JVC NP5? Considering no native 4k? I guess gaming at a gaming convention?

For that price get either an Epson LS12000 or Sony XW5000ES or JVC DLA-NOP5 |**Feature**|**Epson LS12000**|**Sony VPL-XW5000ES**|**JVC DLA-NP5**| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |**Resolution**|4K PRO-UHD (Pixel-shifted)|Native 4K (3840x2160)|Native 4K (4096x2160)| |**Light Source**|Laser (20,000 hours)|Laser (20,000 hours)|Lamp (3,500–4,500 hours)| |**Brightness**|2,700 ANSI lumens|2,000 ANSI lumens|1,900 ANSI lumens| |**Contrast Ratio**|2,500,000:1 (Dynamic)|Excellent native contrast|40,000:1 (Native)| |**HDR Support**|HDR10, HDR10+, HLG|HDR10, HLG|HDR10, HDR10+, Frame Adapt HDR| |**Input Lag**|\~20ms (4K@120Hz)|\~21ms (4K@60Hz)|\~37ms (4K@60Hz)| |**Lens Memory**|Yes|No|Yes| |**Price Range**|\~$4,999|\~$5,998|\~$5,499| If you want gaming choose the LS12000. If you want the absolute best picture quality then JVC DLA-NP5.

Get the Epson LS 12000 my friend, its a beast, and the pictures on it are beautiful. Or you could go for JVC NZ7.

If you're already used to the DLP look the Max could be a fine option. There will be some rainbow effect but if you're not noticing it on the HT1075 then chances are you won't see it on the Max. In terms of overall picture quality they will probably trade blows depending on the scene. The Max should be a bit brighter and punchier with the wider gamut in bright scenes but there will probably be some cases where the LS12000 wins with the higher dark intrascene contrast. HDR tonemapping seems to be much better on the Valerion and the only way the LS12000 will compete here is with something like a lumagen or madvr. Laser speckle is also a consideration. The Valerion projectors like most 3 laser models are prone to it especially if using a higher gain screen. The LS12000 can use just about any screen without any speckle. If your room is untreated or a light color the LS12000 would be able to use ALR screens without worrying about laser speckle while the Max may have issues with some screens. For gaming DLP has much better motion resolution in my experience compared to other projection technologies, but the LS12000 does support 4k 120hz output so it may be somewhat close. The Max does support 1080p 240hz which the LS12000 does not for fast paced games, but I don't think the PS5 will output that so you'd be limited to 1080p 120hz.

Can confirm personally that I love my epson ls 12000. This is my third and most favorite projector although I do kinda miss whipping out 3D Blu-ray’s every now and then.

Projectorscreen(dot)com has refurb LS12000s for $3999 with 3 year Epson warranty, it's marginally better than the LS11000 in terms of black level, but probably worth it given the equal price to a non refurb LS11000. As far as 5D,for an angular reflective screen the projector should be no closer than 1.5x the width of the screen, but closer to 2x is better. With 16' throw and a 120" screen you're at 1.83x, which is good, but if anyone ever wants to watch from that loveseat they're going to have terrible hot spotting due to the narrow viewing angle of angular reflective ALR screens.

I would go for the LS12000 out of those models. It is worth the price difference. I have compared them side by side on many ocations. You get getter Blacks with a Sony or JVC but you get a lot of bang for the buck on Epsons projectors.

I'm really happy with the ls12000 also

Epson comes with great long throw projectors as well they just released the follower of the legendary [5050ub](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_5pFXwFvsQ) / eh tw 9400 the 6 Year in a row flagship which still delivers (in ma living room BUT you need a lil shadow especially with older lamps and as usual the right screen! (actually 5k+ h on the lamp…) Epson EH-QB1000 (about 5.5k $) Epson EH-LS12000B (Around 4k $) [Battle](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pz2ipuEtvFo) between them but in german (Names could vary since im german, while ours is ehtw9400 yours should be 5050ub guess something similar with the newer projectors as well)

RBE is real... And it SUCKS. It may not affect you personally, but it'll definitely affect someone that comes over. IMHO, a home theater is something you share with others... so I'd also go with the LS1200.

This guy knows projectors - this list is solid -- Epson 5050ub, Epson LS1200, JVC NZ500 are generally accepted as the standout winners at their respective price ranges- (with an emphasis on preference for high contrast performance)

Seems like the Epson may have deeper blacks vs Valerion, and also no rainbow and likely almost no speckle. The Epson will not have Dolby or its own OS. I'm not sure why Epson continues to ignore Dolby Vision but every chance I get to see movies mastered in it I do it, it does look incredible.

LS11000 would have been fine for me but I figured if I'm spending that much and the ceiling is already black, why not. The LS12000 looks fantastic but you'll be limited if streaming content, I ended up going back to 4k UHD discs to really take advantage of it. When your looking at contrast ratios, light control and reflections are key. I've still got cream walls and it does limit the contrast ratios a bit, how much i'm not sure as we haven't decided on a wall treatment yet. The only other limitation is Dolby Vision but this is a larger issue with 4k projectors, they don't support it. HDFury devices can working as a bridging layer to get the functionality and might be something worth looking into depending on content.

If looking at 100” or less, I’d look at an OLED unless you couldn’t make it fit through the stairway. At 120” (or larger) I’d still go with a projector. LS800 works well as a UST but is capped at 60hz. LS11000 or LS12000 work as a standard and support 120hz, these would be a drop-in replace for what’s there now. If doing the projector route, even with an oled to a point get some black surrounds and look at darkening the ceiling. Especially if looking at a standard throw projector, you wont get the contrast pop unless it’s blackened out (the more the better). Personally I like the look of a projector better, the light off the screen is passive and easier on the eyes but to each their own.

I'd go with the LS12000. That's what I'm using, and it's amazing. Not sure if it matters to you, but I don't think that Sony has motorized zoom on the lens. I find that pretty useful if I want to put something on the projection that's uncomfortable at 140" Personal advice, I'd say: Go with the Epson, that Sony's a good projector, but not worth the price. Also it comes with a mount, so you'd save that money too. Get a screen from Silver Ticket. That's what I have, looks amazing, and should be around 1k cheaper. Ditch their control system. It has to be programmed by the dealer, it's just an attempt to force you to keep spending money with them. Ridiculously unnecessary for your system anyway. Ditch the service plan. The only thing worth worrying about warranty on is the projector, and if you do get the LS12000, it has an amazing warranty. 3 years, 2 business day full unit replacement. Pretty sure it includes shipping, at least one way. Get a cheaper active HDMI cable than that. You can get one for half that price. Ditch the "Powerquest", get a normal surge suppressor. Shouldn't cost much. All that should add up to around $11,000 in savings compared to that quote.

For Gaming and sports the Sony BRAVIA Projector 7 (VPL-XW5100ES) is an excellent choice. Great for movies as well. I recommend Epson for use cases with Ambiant light and also gaming. QB1000 is pretty awesome or LS9000/11000/12000 depending on budget. However for a more cinematic feel, JVC takes the cake. Unfortunately the Nz500 and 700 are limited to 60Hz To better assess the options, i usually ask my clients to put a % on each use type, and see if it makes sense. Also, game types can influence the recommendation. Any competitive games or more causal games. I game causally on my JVC and I am pretty satisfied. Hope this helps