Some background: I currently mainly use the Moondrop KATO (previously Aria), and I find it to be the most comfortable for me. I also have the Timeless 7hz, but it doesnt fit well into my ears, so I ended up benching it because my ears start to hurt after an hour or two.
I listen to a lot of R&B, Rock/alternative rock, New Age, Classical, Ballad, J-pop, and more recently, K-pop. That said, I also really like vocals, with Ado being a good example.
Budget: \~$200-300. I'm willing to spend a bit more if it is worth it.
I also want to use it with my phone since I can't really do that with the KATOS, as they're quite heavy, so I can't walk around with them. This isn't a hard requirement, but is something I would like.
I've been eyeing the Tanchjim FOLAs, but I'm not sure if there's something else I should be looking at, like the Origin or Force instead.
The Timeless is okay, but I honestly prefer the KATOs in every way, just that the treble/highs can peak a little high sometimes, causing it to be a little harsh on my ears, and it's why I'm using the brass nozzles. For the most part, I'm just looking for something similar but with a more controlled treble. So like imagine the KATOs but the peaks are less harsh. I currently have them EQ'd to where the top (~20 kHz) is gently brought down because of this, but the upper mids and high do have a decent boost.
I value vocal clarity and presence, and I don't care too much about the bass "hitting" strongly. I was mainly looking for something clean, kind of bright, and has good details.
From what I read up, the FOLAs and Force were the most similar, but it seems like I can't quite find a good comparison of the two. From the charts, Force seemed the most similar to the KATOs, but the FOLAs have a smooth fall off for the highs I believe, which is what I think I'm looking for, but I'm not sure.
I honestly don't know what exactly I like, especially since I EQ'd my KATOs, so it's not exactly "stock." I actually really like my KATOs post EQ, just that the treble can peak a little high sometimes, causing it to be a little harsh on my ears, but that's also why I'm using the brass nozzles. I'm also not a "basshead."
With my EQ, I have it as this:
(Bass & sub bass) 20-200 Hz: Almost flat with a slight cut.
(Low mids) 200-500 Hz: Noticeable dip to reduce "mud" and thickness, making mixes sound cleaner and less boxy.
(Midrange) 500 Hz - 2kHz: Close to flat with tiny tweaks (short incline, then flattens).
(Upper mids and highs) 5-10 kHz: There's a clear boost, but it's not insanely high.
(Very top) ~20 kHz: It is gently brought down to lessen that harshness I was talking about earlier.
For the most part, I would say I'm just looking for something similar to the KATOs but with a more controlled treble. So like imagine the KATOs but the peaks are less harsh.
I value vocal clarity and presence, and I don't care too much about the bass "hitting" strongly. I was mainly looking for something clean, kind of bright, and has good details.
From what I read up, the FOLAs and Force were the most similar, but it seems like I can't quite find a good comparison the two. From the charts, Force seemed the most similar to the KATOs, but the FOLAs have a smooth fall off for the highs I believe, which is what I think I'm looking for, but I'm not sure.
I'll read the post you linked, but I'm honestly not sure what I should be looking for in terms of describing these IEMs.
My first pair was some Fiio pair (o think the F3?) that everyone raved about for gaming and sound quality compared to how cheap it was....was one of THE WORST sounding hollow tin pieces of shit ive ever heard lol.
I swore off all IEMs after that thinking they could never compete with "real headphones" but then I got pretty damn lucky; there was a pricing error on Amazon and I bought 2 pairs of EW300 DSP for me and my ex for $8 each (was supposed to be $80) and damn were they actually pretty fucking close, just had weird highs that I started hearing and didnt like them after 5 months, so I gave them to my niece and bought myself a used pair of 7Hz timeless and just cleaned them, absolutely my favorites so far.
I fear this new hobby of mine is going to cost me more than my ex ever did, which she made off with $1000s worth of shit. Oh well I got better headphones/earbuds now 1 point for me; 3450 for her
It'll be a tie between blon bl03 and Timeless. Blon because it scales well, takes EQ like a champ and has a soft, "glowy" mids. And Timeless because it sounds detailed and effortless.
Knowing your recommendations here, do you have any experience with the 7hz Timeless. I have them and I like the bass on them (once I EQ a bass bump into them) but Ive read a lot of ppl saying they’re disappointed by the bass and Im wondering what something better would sound like. Im wondering how they compare to what youve mentioned above because I def like bass but Ive been underwhelmed by the Zero Blue 2s (rather fatigue-ing).
There's quite a broad range. For example:
* Aful MagicOne - pretty, but not overdone
* Ikko OH10 - good looking, nature-based & reserved
* 7Hz Timeless, Timeless AE, Simgot EA500 - minimalist
* Tin C2, Dunu Titan S (black/red version), Truthear Hexa/Pure - industrial
There's a whole load in the middle that are just random swirly colours which has become the default low-effort design. Something like the Thieaudio Legacy 2 does that well IMO because its just one colour with a bit of texture, not all the colours, all at once.
If you want a plain black cable, look at the KBear ST12. There's lots of options out there. I notice the stock cables often don't match the IEMs very well, and intentionally or not, this most likely helps sell a lot of aftermarket cables.
Hey everyone — looking for a sanity check before I pull the trigger.
I’m trying to make my first serious jump into IEMs, but I want to do it cleanly without buying and flipping a bunch of gear.
My situation / goals:
• Budget: \~$180 for the IEM
• Music: fusion, jazz-funk, jam-oriented stuff, live recordings
(T-SQUARE, Casiopea, Masayoshi Takanaka, Grateful Dead, etc.)
• I care more about:
• groove & timing
• transient speed
• separation in dense passages
than huge soundstage or bass slam.
• Listening: mostly stationary / focused listening, not commuting
• Source plan: likely pairing with a Qudelix 5K (wired), but could start with a basic USB-C dongle
• Ears: somewhat sensitive to harsh treble, but I’m okay with EQ and tip rolling
What I’m considering
The LETSHUOER S12 Pro keeps coming up as:
• fast planar driver
• good technical performance for the price
• something that “teaches you what you like” rather than locking you into a warm/safe tuning
I’ve also looked at:
• S12 (original)
• S12 Ultra
• 7Hz Timeless
• Tangzu Zetian Wu
• Truthear Hexa
• Moondrop Aria / similar dynamics
From what I can tell:
• S12 Pro = more energetic / raw
• S12 Ultra = smoother / darker / more damped
• Others seem either slower or more relaxed than what I’m after
What I’m trying to avoid:
• Buying something “too safe” and then wondering what I’m missing
• Buying something overly spicy with no way to tame it
• Falling into cable / accessory rabbit holes early
• Cycling through 5 IEMs just to learn basic preferences
My questions:
1. Is the S12 Pro a reasonable first IEM if I’m willing to EQ lightly and use a good source?
2. Would the S12 Ultra actually make more sense given treble sensitivity, or is that more of a refinement for people who already know their preferences?
3. Are there any direct competitors at \\\~$130–$180 that you think are clearly better for groove-focused music?
4. If you were starting over with this budget today, would you still recommend a planar like the S12 Pro as a learning/reference point?
Not looking for “endgame,” just trying to make a high-ROI first step and actually enjoy the music instead of the gear.
Appreciate any thoughts — especially from people who’ve owned multiple planars or used the S12 Pro long-term.
I think you’re right in principle about FR being the primary target and hybrids/DDs being easier to tune to a smooth curve. No disagreement there.
Where I think the conclusion breaks down a bit is assuming FR ≈ listening experience, especially for groove-centric music. Transient behavior, decay speed, and micro-dynamics still matter perceptually, even when FR is well controlled. Two IEMs can measure similarly and feel very different rhythmically.
Also, planar IEMs being “hard to EQ” is mostly a pre-DSP argument. With proper parametric EQ (not graphic EQ), narrow upper-mid/treble peaks are very controllable, especially when the driver itself has low distortion. You’re not trying to reshape the entire response, just tame specific regions.
I agree hybrids like Daybreak/Hexa are safer plug-and-play picks, but safety isn’t the same as engagement. For someone prioritizing timing, snap, and live energy, and who is explicitly using DSP, a planar like the S12 Pro isn’t inherently the wrong recommendation, just a higher-interaction one.
I’m not really trying to convince you to like the S12 Pro, so I think we’re talking past each other a bit.
I agree with you that FR is the dominant factor for tonal preference, that’s not controversial. Where we disagree is that FR fully collapses the listening experience once targets are hit. For some listeners, transient behavior and decay characteristics still affect perceived groove and timing, even when tonality is similar. You may consider those differences minuscule; others don’t.
As for EQ being a “pain in the ass,” fair enough if you don’t want to interact with your gear. I’m explicitly choosing a DSP-based setup because I do want that flexibility. That’s a preference difference, not cope.
I’m not claiming the S12 Pro is universally better, or that hybrids/DDs are “trash,” just that different designs optimize for different priorities. If your goal is lowest-friction, smooth plug-and-play, Hexa/Daybreak make more sense. If your goal is engagement and timing and you’re willing to tune, a planar isn’t automatically invalid.
Anyway, appreciate the perspective. I think we’ve probably reached the point of diminishing returns in this thread.
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Budget gaming pick, but poor cables and polarizing bass.
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