Deviate NITRO Elite

Nice review. I have the OG Deviate Nitro Elite's and I agree with everything you said about the 3rd edition. I know Puma has tinkered with the midsole form since the 1st version, and it's now much livelier. Nonetheless, I use them for just about every type of workout and they are my 'go-to' for tempo/threshold group runs where I'm hanging on for dear life. Puma grip is amazing!

I bought them on super discount earlier this year. I paid $120 for them and they are currently at about 100 miles. I try to get at least 200km on my performance shoes before retiring and think these should easily make it.

I have been using the Prime X or Prime X Strung for my 16+ mile runs the past few years, which are all at least a steady effort. Sometimes I'll use a retired race shoe (Deviate Elite 1, Alphafly 1) for runs with marathon pace, but the Prime X can also handle it. It mostly a comfort thing for me. It is just nice to not have my feet hurt at the end of the run. Prior to the Prime X I used Atreyu The Artist and the Endorphin Shift 1 prior to that. Those models don't exist anymore and I didn't find their successors as comfortable over long runs, so I have been using the Prime X for 3 years now. Not sure what I will use when I finally wear those out. Would like to try out the Evo SL and see if that works.

Absolutely agree on the review. They disappear on the feet while feeling fantastic at the same time - if that makes sense! I've had all three version of the DNE and each has been very different. I've just take a pair of the DNE2s past 750k and picked up my third pair of them in a sale recently have have 300k on them already. They are a brilliant training show. But the DNE3 is a proper race shoe - I'm at 140k with my pair and hope to get a good bit more but do sense that the outsole won't quite last as long as the previous version.

They have a super line-up. I had a couple of pairs of DN2 too as well.

When I first started running, my Endorphin Speed 3 felt like strapping on jet packs, I really liked 'em for for tempo runs and intervals. As I progressed a bit, I liked them for easy long runs too. Ran my first marathon in 'em, I damn near shed a tear when I had to retire them lol. So yeah, the ES5 is pretty high on my list right now, and I'd think they might work great for you too, if they're similar enough to the ES3. Super shoes have their use, and I won't be one of the people who'll tell you "you're not fast enough for super shoes",...but imo they always compromise on comfort and stability to some extend, so depending on your form/gait, there might only be a psychological effect to wearing carbon plated shoes. Having said that though, some of the super shoes mentioned here tend to be easier to get along with than others, and are maybe less stiff/agressive than some of the the top tier racing shoes. The Endorphin Pro 3 comes to mind. The Puma DNE2 is another one, though I never tried the DNE3, which is supposedly a great upgrade. Out of my current rotation, for a 20ish minute 5K race or a 40ish 10 km race, I'd probably grab my Vaporfly 3. For 10 miles or HM/FM races: Adios Pro 3. The AP4 felt wobbly and akward to me, must me something about my gait/pace/cadence not working with the shoe's geometry, and/or the overly spongy midsole, dunno.

I have the magic speed 4 and the puma nitro deviate elite 2. Im not sure I run fast enough or if I just haven’t broken them in but the MS4 doesn’t have much pop. The pumas had me flying straight out of the box

I would echo some of the suggestions here. I imagine based on your height and mass you have quite big feet. As a fellow larger human (187cm, 95kg) I use the Deviate Nitro Elites, alphaflys in larger sizes, i am a UK 12 are just absolute units.

Yeah, it's likely not support you're missing, it's the stability of the shoe.  Puma DNE would be the better option in my opinion.  Realistically, you might actually be better off in any number of non-carbon super trainers.  You'll see plenty of Superblasts, NB Pacers and Evo SLs that finish in the 3:00 to 3:30 range.