Switchback

You don't need to spend hundreds on a heavy and fragile inflatable pad for the summer. Foam is tried and true. A torso-length Zlite or Switchback is 6 oz

> I'd like to not have to buy a whole new pad just for winter, and my understanding is that a high r value pad won't cause you to overheat. Nobody on /r/ultralight here can tell you to use a winter pad in the summer. In UL, we use the lightest pads that can keep us sufficiently warm at a given temp In either case, both of the pads you mention are heavy. > My budget is $200, if there is another sleeping pad that's durable, comfortable, and light in that range I'm happy to consider it You're in luck. A piece of foam (Nemo Switchback or Thermarest Zlite) is $50 or less, weighs between like 5 and 14 oz depending how much you cut it down, and is infinitely more durable than any inflatable. As for comfort, that up to you to decide. And you can't decide that just by looking at it. Get a foam pad out for a few nights and try it, just as any budding UL hiker should. Inflatables are an overwhelming dominance in backpacking, but it really shouldn't be that way.

> lighter and higher r-value than a comparable-length ccf pad A few points here. First, having a higher R value is only a benefit if that higher R value is actually needed. If I'm backpacking in conditions where an R 2 foam pad is sufficient, then the R 4.5 of an Xlite providies no benefit to me. Second, there is no reason to constrain ourselves to comparing these pads at the same length. In UL, "foam pad" almost always means "torso-length foam pad". My 6 panels of Switchback weighs only 6 ounces, which really no inflatable can compete with. Sure you could also cut down an inflatable to even the playing field, but then you introduce a big height differential from one end of your body to the other, which foam doesn't do. and I think that at any temps where a torso pad works, nothing more than R2 is needed, so it may as well be foam. We should also consider that very light inflatables are also fragile. IMO the decision to take such a critical component of a sleep system that can also fail so spectacularly should be made with more care. I would not carry something so fragile unless it was really worth it, and it only becomes worth it at high R value (like 4-5 and above). > OP will likely sleep much better on the inflatable pad You don't know that though. I sleep very well on foam, and so do many others. Maybe OP wouldn't find that to be true for themselves. But torso-length foam has so many benefits over inflatables (lighter, way more durable, way cheaper, more multi-purposed) that all UL hikers should at least try it for a few nights before deciding against it.

I think if you're going foam-only, then it's a great opportunity to shed weight. You can do a lot better than 600 g. My Switchback cut to torso length is 167 g

The JMT is the perfect trail for some good old foam. I carried 6 panels of Nemo Switchback in July for a net 6 oz. No more carrying patches, never worry about leaks, never waste time deflating or inflating, plus you get a huge sit pad/yoga mat for free. Both cheaper and warmer (and lighter) than an Exped Ultra 1R.

Only one way to find out! I think it's plenty comfy

Your use case, plus the fact that you're asking on /r/ultralight, screams torso-length foam. Get a Nemo Switchback, cut it to length from your shoulders to your thighs, and it will be like 6 oz. Way cheaper than an inflatable, lighter than an inflatable, will never pop or leak, much faster to deploy and pack away, also serves as a stretching surface and a luxury sit pad and a wind block for your stove, and a framesheet for a frameless pack

It's all about the density. Cheaper foams are less dense, meaning that they'll collapse under weight and be less effective and insulating when laid on. They may have the same R value as a denser foam when they're uncompressed, but that doesn't matter. I have a super cheap sit pad from Amazon, and it's about as dense as a piece of bread. That's generally speaking though. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a cheap foam pad with a density comparable to a Zlite or Switchback. They're not exactly cutting edge technology. Fwiw, I find that at temps near freezing or below, a GG Thinlight layered on top of a torso-length switchback, with my pack under the Thinlight for my legs, is luxurious

You literally said people in this thread are trying to defend existing purchases, so you’re kind of telling people to buy a new pad. It’s just not a worthwhile upgrade for me when I have a Tensor, Switchback and X-Lite. I don’t need a 4th sleeping pad at home on the shelf lol

Comfortable, I have one now. Before I had a Nemo pad I returned and honestly, kind of wish I had kept it. Only downside was it took forever to inflate. Also, these things go on sale/get returned all the time. I’d look for one second hand if possible.

I stacked a Nemo inflatable on a nemo Switchback.

Started using a frameless pack with a sleeping pad insert along the back to give it structure. A cut down Nemo Switchback has been perfect! About to turn 40 though, so this young-man’s minimal setup might transition to a more comfy system before too long

[This thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1qkk4yh/ccf_pads_made_from_xlpe/) made me aware of something that I've been wanting for a while: a CCF pad that is as light as a Thinlight but with egg crate bumps that ventilate better when used as a back panel on a backpack. I've never been able to use my Thinlight for this because my back gets too sweaty. It works fine with bumpy pads, but I can only use [small sit pads](https://imgur.com/a/ti5WyFy) because full length bumpy pads are too heavy and bulky. I could find very limited information about this pad so I figured I'd bite the bullet and post my first impressions and compare it to other pads. Here's some specs: * The cheapest I could find the pad was $30, which is overpriced I think, but so is everything on post-tariff Aliexpress these days. * Weight came in at 104g, which is pretty much on spec. It comes with two elastic straps (1g each) and a protective stuff sack (10g) which I am unlikely to use, but is nice to have. * It claims to be made out of IXPP, which is stiffer and stronger than pads made out of IXPE (common in generic pads, including the generic pad I compare it to). I can't tell for sure it *is* IXPP, and technical info listed goes back and forth on it, but I'll assume so as it seems harder than IXPE. * It has a claimed R-value of 1.8 which is clearly bullshit. The bumps probably add some benefit, but I don't expect it to be significantly warmer than a Thinlight. * /u/downingdown measured the actual foam thickness to be [about 2mm](https://imgur.com/a/21pfbP5), or 1.2mm thinner than a Thinlight, and the bumps to be 12mm. * [It's wider than other pads](https://i.imgur.com/UpClriu.jpeg), but the bumps stop short of the sides so there's little benefit to that. I'll almost certainly trim it to fit my torso length. I compared it to [a number of CCF pads I had on hand](https://i.imgur.com/etZlBz4.jpeg): * my GG Thinlight (older 20" wide version) - 94g * a generic $1 Aliexpress pad - 311g * an [Exped Flexmat M](https://www.expedusa.com/products/flex-1-5r) I won at PCT Days - 321g The most comfortable was the generic $1 pad. [It's the thickest](https://i.imgur.com/aeE8U8i.jpeg), and made out of the softest foam, but I think it's mostly to do with the dome bumps instead of pyramid bumps. I'm sure there's a reason why most egg shell pads use pyramid bumps, but I find them much less comfortable. This is the only pad I would actually use on its own. For the record, I've also previously owned a Nemo Switchback and [Decathlon MT100 pad](https://www.decathlon.com/products/hiking-mattress-forclaz-m100-foam) and found neither more comfortable. The Flexmat is made out of a harder material, which along with pyramid bumps makes it pretty uncomfortable. I noticed only a minor difference in comfort between this and the Y-55, which is wild considering it's almost 3 times heavier and an order of magnitude thicker. There was a noticeable difference in comfort between the Y-55 and Thinlight, despite being similar in weight. The bumps definitely make a difference, however it remains to be seen how long that will be the case. Theoretically the Thinlight's EVA will withstand repeated compression a lot better and those bumps aren't very rigid. Next I compared how well it worked with the slipperiest pad in existence, the Nemo Tensor Elite. [When I rub the Y-55 on the Tensor](https://i.imgur.com/uOZ4n4I.jpeg), it moves a bit more than when I do the same with the Thinlight, but in actual use laying on the pad and moving around neither moves very much compared to without. I did the same with my DCF groundsheet with the same results. Another selling point for me was that I assumed the bumps would help prevent pokey things from rubbing against the Tensor instead falling into the wells, which it may very well do, but I also noticed that the Y-55 is a magnet to all dust, dirt, and hair on my floor. Much more so than the Thinlight. That's all I got for now. I'll be using it on a number of thru hikes starting in a couple months and will be able to give a long term review later this year. I think even for $30 it's a viable if not superior alternative to the Thinlight, especially for those that can't easily get one. --- [Pictures!](https://imgur.com/a/SLYlY2n)

Switchback is marginally more comfortable, as it's thicker. But it's also much heavier. Neither are comfortable enough that I'd use them on their own.

Z Lite or Nemo Switchback

Not OP but If it’s above like 40 nothing. I am warm down to 20 on a torso length switchback with my feet legs on my pack and very importantly a sit pad in the footbox of my quilt.

Mine is just below my butt. I did start with 8 and realize it was unnecessary, so I folded the top couple so it was 3 thick near my head and effectively 6 panels long and felt no difference. I do understand I sleep warm so I cannot recommend sleeping down to 20 on a torso length switchback without at least having a backup inflatable for a trip or two.

I am a side sleeper who sleeps on 6 panels of a switchback, and I recommended it above

I really think you should give foam a try. A decathlon foam pad is literally like $10. As said above, many side sleepers use them.

Yes. I started with both a Switchback and an Xtherm. Air mattress got holes. I patched it, many times, until I tossed the damn thing and just used the CCF. It was fine. There were only a few nights I wish I had something a bit warmer. When you're riding that edge of too-cold-to-sleep, camp selection becomes even more important.