Therm-a-Rest - Z Lite Sol

Important to know from the start: I have scoliosis as well as a lingering low back/hip injury, and at home I sleep on a probably-too-soft mattress. But I don't have any of the problems I mention below even when I sleep in a different bed with a different firmness, such as while traveling for work or family. My setup as of last year's season is a Therm-A-Rest Z Lite Sol underneath the Big Agnes Rapide SL inflatable pad (standard length, wide width). In other words, I'm not laying flat on the ground by any means - there's plenty of cushion from uneven or firm ground, and I haven't had any temperature issues (I pair these two pads with a now-discontinued Sea to Summit down bag that's plenty cozy). The Big Agnes pad was new last year, after multiple seasons attempting and failing to make a thin Therm-A-Rest Trail Scout work with the Z-Lite (I would anti-recommend the Trail Scout for this and other reasons). But this current setup isn't working very well, either. On some nights I found myself waking up with a leg or two numb on some nights because of some position that had me cutting off circulation. (This happens at home occasionally when I'm sitting flat on the floor, but rarely when I'm sleeping or lying flat.) Even though I played around with the inflation level of the Big Agnes pad, as I was worried it was maybe too firm at full inflation, that didn't seem to help much. I also prefer to sleep on my stomach, and I haven't figured out a backcountry pillow option that's flat enough to keep my neck at a comfortable angle without being non-existent, as sleeping directly on my arms puts them numb too. Out of desperation, I tried bringing my flat-yet-not-paper pillow from home for a trip last year, which feels embarrassing to write because of the pillow's weight and bulk, lol. If it had worked, I would make adjustments to my kit to bring it every time, but it didn't really fix the setup (which is probably for the best for the rest of my packing list), so I'm back to the drawing board. Given all this, I'm feeling nervous about this season's upcoming trips, as I'm not someone who functions well on a lack of sleep. I'd prefer to try and adapt my current setup before I buy new stuff, too, as these are otherwise high-quality products that I think will last a while, if I can make them work for me. For folks who have finicky backs, or sleep in ways at home that are harder to comfortably do out on trail, how do you adjust your sleep setup for overnighters? What might I change here that will help me sleep better while on trail and thus have a better trip overall? I'm considering the Nemo Fillo Elite - can any stomach sleepers attest to this or other semi-inflatable pillows as being worth the buy?

Thermarest from 1984 is still fine. It was my dad's. It's one of the "backpacking" shorter orange ones. Used it my entire youth, through many weekend trips in my 20s and still use it when I'm solo camping. It's been patched and the opening resealed around the edges, but it holds air through the night everytime. I sometimes stack it with a zlite I've had for a while.

Slept on a ZLite on the AT and PCT, bought a NeoAir for the CDT and slept great on all of them. 10+ years later and I can’t even come close to a good nights sleep on a 25 inch wide pad with a decent pillow. Probably just need to hike more miles.

I'd get some soapy water and check the inflatable pad for a hole. To answer your question, yes, you can use a foam pad under your inflatable, and people do fairly often. I have a Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol sleeping pad that I like very much. It has a reflective side that I find helpful. I also like how it folds instead of rolls for storage.

If you have the space or option of lashing things to your pack, I'd just get two closed cell foam pads, like the Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol or Ridgecrest Classic, and stack them. That would be an R-value of 4. It would be a little bit bulky compared to an inflatable, but it would be cheap, durable, and functional. I'm partial to foam pads, though.

I might be weird, but I really love my Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol. It's 0.75" of rippled closed cell foam. It insulates well enough for me in combination with my sleeping bag, and I like how light and portable it is. Depending upon your sleeping bag and use case, it might not be enough, just as a fair warning. It all depends. I like it, though.

I use a Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol for winter, and it works for me. I sleep hot, so its R-value has been adequate for me in combination with my sleeping bag (Kelty Cosmic Synthetic 0) in some subfreezing temps.

You can use a combo of an inflatable pad and closed cell foam (CCF) pad. In theory, pad R-values are additive when layered, although IME there can be some heat loss out of the side of an inflatable pad, thus, if in doubt, place the CCF on top in cold weather. My current winter/snow/frozen ground pad system is a NeoAir Topo Luxe (3.7R) and a Z Lite Sol (2.0R) = total 5.7R. Which Washington? I'm in WA state and have a new-in-box Exped Synmat HL Winter LW (5.0R) that I'd sell for cheap. It was a warranty replacement for a first gen Winterlite (baffle failure). Exped claims that the baffle seam issue has been fixed, and the lack of reports of failures on forums tend to support this. I apologize if I've broken any rules re selling. I'm not that eager to sell, but I'm willing to help out a fellow mountaineer with limited funds. I once lived that life.

There's another viable option you didn't mention; get a Switchback or Zlite. Inflatables are one of the biggest unquestioned dogmas of backpacking, and people don't realize that this is a genuine choice that they're free to make. Choosing to carry such a critical item that can also fail so spectacularly makes little sense to me. CCF doesn't need to be inflated, doesn't need to be deflated, doesn't need to be protected, never leaks or pops, never needs to be patched, can be deployed and put away in seconds, doubles as a luxury sit pad, doubles as a framesheet for frameless packs, doubles as a yoga mat for stretching out, etc. Switching from an inflatable to 6 panels of Switchback for 5.5 oz enlightened me, and I haven't carried an inflatable since. If it was cold, I would. But CCF works for the PCT. Regarding your lighter pack, there are a lot of little changes you could make, but here are the main ones: - your clothing is quite heavy. I'd replace the R1 with an alpha direct hoody. Your puffy is very heavy, and I'd replace it with an EE Torrid, or a cheap Decathtlon MT100, for less than half the weight. Your rain jacket can also be replaced with a cheap frog toggs for again half the weight. - ditch the sleep shirt and sleep pants, just sleep in your midlayers. Alpha direct is very comfy. I hike in shorts, and carry alpha direct pants (for cold mornings, cold passes, camp, sleeping) as well as an alpha direct hoody. I add <2 oz wind pants as needed - you could consider hiking stoveless. Simpler, easier, faster, just as tasty. If not, you can still lighten your cook kit. Replace Toaks 750 with Toaks 550 no handle. Replace the lid with the thin one made by Verkstan on Etsy. Get the world's lightest pot grabber by Grimwood Gear on Etsy. Replace the Pocket Rocket with a BRS3000T - getting a CCF sleeping pad allows you to ditch the sit pad - ditch the crocs - I'd replace the heavy cnoc bag with a platypus or Evernew bag - 1 oz of soap is a ton. You could carry 0.5 oz or less of a concentrated soap like this for the whole trail. I'd ditch the hand sanitizer.

I really encourage you to think outside the box here, and reconsider the answers you've gotten so far. This thread so far is 100% indistinguishable from a thread on a non-UL forum. If you are only camping in warm weather, and you're prioritizing weight and durability, then you do not need an inflatable. You'll be committing to a relatively heavy and fragile piece of gear for no reason. And the R values you're looking at are hugely overkill if you'll never go below 5C and you sleep warm. You're the perfect candidate for a foam pad. Cut a ~1 inch thick CCF pad with R=2 to fit your shoulders to your thighs. It will be like 5-6 oz, it will last forever, it will be cheap, it will be comfortable, it doubles as a luxury sit pad, you can stretch out on it, and it can be a framesheet for a frameless pack. If you've only ever tried shitty CCF, try a Switchback or a Zlite. If you really want to prioritize comfort, consider this; an inflatable that even remotely compares in weight to CCF will leak. It's not if, but when. And then you're sleeping on the ground until you make it back to town.

I use a 1/8in pad to sleep on, but I am very selective on my sleeping sites. Jupiterhikes on youtube has a video about his site selection techniques for a 1/8in pad in his videos The pad would take something comfortable with no pad and make it a touch more comfortable. Occasionally, if I find a pure sand camping site I'll sleep directly on the sand and find it very comfortable to give you an example of my sleeping habits. In winter I find the 1/8in pad provides no insulation, I have to bring a zlite or an inflatble. and I am also someone who sleeps on my carpet at home.

Keep your zlite and get adapted by sleeping on it at home every night. Im a side sleeper and after a while it is awesome. When it gets too cold for zlite use 2.

My go to is a 3/4 Thermarest Z-lite Sol foam pad. Light, warm and dependable + it is slim enough to not bother you climbing. Just cut it in the desired length and you are good to go. 3/4 works great for me, as I have a my backpack to put my legs or head on. Pair it with a down jacket and/or a light quilt and a bivy bag and you are all good (note: you can get much better sleep with a heavier setup, or worse with something lighter, so make up your own mind about what you are looking for)

I have both the Z Lite and the Nemo Switchback. I don't have tons of experience with Backcountry's house-brand gear and in particular not this pad. But based on the couple of their items I have bought, and others' experiences I've read about, I'm inclined to guess the Stoic will be only marginally inferior to the Thermarest, and that given the price difference in your market it makes sense to just get the Stoic. Certainly not all foam pads are created equal, even if they look similar, and I personally wouldn't grab a pad from a no-name fly-by-night knockoff off Amazon or AliExpress, because durability issues could easily compromise the already-borderline comfort of a CCF pad, and if it degrades or compresses quite a lot on a long trek it could badly compromise your sleep system warmth. But Backcountry certainly doesn't fall into the fly-by-night category, they stand behind their products reasonably well, and what few reviews I can see seem to be positive. I've heard that for at least some of their house-brand gear - notably some tents - Backcountry licenses outdated designs from bigger name companies, so the manufacturer really can pretty much just change colors and logos and keep making the old gear. Wouldn't be shocked if the Stoic is made in the same factory as pads from some bigger name brand.

I've used the Z Lite a fair bit but haven't had as many opportunities to go backpacking since I got the Switchback, so this isn't a highly well-tested opinion. The Switchback is more comfortable - not by much, but enough to be consistently noticeable. They're essentially identical in most other aspects. The small weight difference in the manufacturers' specs doesn't seem to hold up in the real world; my Z Lite and Switchback weigh exactly the same. Online reviewers similarly say any weight difference is dominated by minor manufacturing variability. Reviewers' pictures all show the Switchback's folded size is smaller, but mine are not very different. Some reviewers say the Switchback is a tiny bit more durable as well - they say that it compresses just a little more slowly and Nemo puts some kind of protective film on the thermal reflective surface. Nemo suggests using theirs thermal reflective side down, and that makes the pad less slippery than using the Z Lite in its recommended reflective up state. Overall, I do think the Switchback is the one to get.

I've been comfortable on 1/4" foam for 500 miles on the CDT through New Mexico (mostly under pine trees) but not on 1/8" foam which I used on my first PCT hike as a backup for my XLITE which leaked out the valve all through Washington, leaving me on the ground multiple times per night, waking me up every hour or so. Personally I like 6 panels of 3/4" zlite (~5 oz) for a bit of a safety margin. One way for you to test both would be to bring a full-length 1/8" pad that you can fold in half into a torso-length 1/4" on a training hike and see what you like. Site selection is obviously important, and for a 1/8" you may want to find/dig a dip for your hip. What is your level of experience and where are you planning to hike?

I do like using my z lite on backpacking trips even though I have an air mattress. It’s nice to be able to toss it on the ground and sit or lay down on it. If I thru hiked I might carry both. It’s not going to be cold enough to the point your thermarest isn’t warm enough on its own

Yeah the temp of the ground is a huge factor I think. I’ve been surprisingly warm on a zlite even in the low 20s but the ground was very warm.

You can totally buy other brands, but I disagree about it being worse in terms of warmth. There is a certain warmth-to-weight ratio of foam pads and based on r-value, no one deviates too much from it. If anything the z-sol might be on the warmer side with the air in the dimples isolating and the reflective layer on the bottom.

I use the Quasar 3D, no problem feeling cold on it. I also use the Z Lite Sol and it's only R 2.0, and also no problem using it in NorCal climate.

My 7yr old sleeps on a Z lite sol and loves it. Sometimes he even places it on the floor of his bedroom to sleep on. We've camped down to around 40F with no complaints from him.

You need to try them out since it’s rather personal. I can’t stand pure air mattresses but I do like closed foam air mattresses. And, when it comes to sleep I’m more than willing to break UL because getting a great night sleep is way better than so-so or crappy sleep. I actually use a ZLite and Nemo Flyer. As a side sleeper and getting up in age the extra weight and space is more than worth it for me.

Both! And as a side sleeper it helps my lean frame get extra padding. Plus the ZLite is perfect for a lunch sit pad, afternoon snooze, placing gear on when it’s kind of dusty or damp, protects my air pad, etc.

Save up for a zlite. I use that and a Nemo Flyer combined. Works great for sleeping on snow for me. I go to 5-10F and the limiting factor is my sleeping bag.

I carry a ZLite for my dog and place along side of me.

I don’t know all of those pads so I can’t say this all applies. Anyhow, I’m a side sleeper and on the lean side so I don’t have much body padding. I am also a very light sleeper and even in the comfort of my home I wake usually every 90 minutes; and take a while to fall asleep again. I dislike pads that are air only. I actually use a ZLite and a Nemo Flyer (normal width). The ZLite is good protection for the Flyer; and a convenient sit or layout mat during the day. The Flyer is air with internal open cell foam so it isn’t that void of just air which I dislike. The combined R value is 5.3. It is however 2.25 pounds. I’m often in Ventana Wilderness and the Sierra and that includes high Sierra in the winter sleeping on snow. It’s definitely warm enough insulation for me and comfortable so I get descent sleep.

I use a Thermorest ZSol Lite foam pad with about four panels cut off, under a Nemo Tensor Ultralight Wide mattress. I don’t really do it for added warmth although it helps some. I do it mainly to have a seat pad strapped on the outside of my backpack so when I take breaks I can just pull it off and sit or lay down for a bit on it. It also makes a good knee cushion, when planting tent stakes, cooking and general camp setup, which can honestly be really hard on your knees in gravelly rocky areas. I’ve tried going without the pad but for me it’s worth the added few ounces.

Fwiw I've owned the zlite and the Walmart knockoff and if you're going to use it heavily I think the extra $15 is probably worth it, also the non-sol is the only pad I know that isn't bright and reflective if that's important to you

Tbh if you arent planning on sleeping on it for a few hundreds of nights there isnt really a difference, but the foam in the thermarest seems to hold up a little better

I just got 7 hrs sleep on a z-lite at home. But it has taken me weeks to get used to it! Also with such little R value you might want to wait till summer to try it. I'm in my 60's so I kinda took it as a challenge to be ABLE to do it after seeing a couple older than me sleep all night on a ridgerest in a shelter.

If the Prolite works great for you, why not keep it and cut weight elsewhere? Pads are quite subjective, like recommending shoes. I agree it's a grail hunt, I've went through a bunch too! The Neoair is my go-to, the Exped Ultra is my favorite, and I can get by on a z-lite in warmer weather.

i'm planning to use a ccf thermarest zlite pad with my inflatable mostly for extra warmth as i'm starting early march. it also doubles as a sit pad.

and the nice thing is, if the inflatable were to pop then you can still sleep on the ccf. I spent a whole decade of camping sleeping only on ccf pads, not the most comfortable but it gets the job done.

We have a similar setup, but my wife and I share a double sized down quilt (EE Accomplice) on two air pads and our dog has his cut down ZLite and synthetic Kifaru woobie. Our dog (heeler) is about 40lbs. We are vigilant to keep him from getting on our uncovered air pads. Our quilt more or less covers our two pads, so it adds a layer of protection, but we insist that he stays in his ZLite as much as possible. We've gone out dozens of times and only lost a pad once when he was young and tried to bolt after a goat.

I‘ve got a Thermarest Z-Lite. Worked great for me so far.

That's still not true though. An X-therm weighs 16oz and has a R value of 7.3. Whereas a z-lite weighs 14oz and has a R value of 2. Even if we assume that foam pads perform above their stated r value you would still need multiple to match the warmth of a single inflatable.

Second this. Ridgerest or zlite closed cell foam pads are great for kids and actually pretty comfortable and sturdy. 

Another vote for the therm a rest z lite. It's lightweight, cheap, comfy, dont have to worry about holes, and is easy to strap to a pack. Cons are It's bulky and a pretty low r value so in colder temps you are going to want to use it in conjunction with an inflatable insulated pad. Using the zlite with an inflatable pad helps prevent puncturing the inflatable pad and gives you a back up if the inflatable pad fails.

This seems counterintuitive…but it worked for me. I had the similar problem: lower back pain after spending not even a full night on inflatable sleeping mats. I tried a couple different ones including the neoair. Deflating the pad definitely helped, but for me the answer was actually getting one of those closed foam thermarest zlite pads 🤷🏻‍♂️ Idk what the science is behind it but getting one of those cheap accordion style mats resulted in not EVER having that back pain while sleeping again. And now I don’t have to worry about my sleeping pad springing a leak and I have a cushion to sit on during the day.

I have a Klymit Static V and a ThermoRest Foam Pad that been cut to fit from my hips to head to keep a size down but give some additional padding under my hips and shoulders.

CCFs are almost always strapped on the outside of the pack, no matter the camper, and can also be used in canoes as a seat padding or knee padding. Nothing to be done if the requirements prevent it (I imagine to keep some kids from bringing way too many creature comforts), but I'd argue it's probably one of the most essential pieces of comfort gear in canoe camping. The folding accordion style of the Z-lite is the usual favourite, but there is also the rollable Ridgerest-style. You won't regret getting one for yourself :)

Nemo switchback or Thermarest Z lite are the ones people often use backpacking. They're mostly nice because they fold up rather than roll up but they are a bit more comfortable too. If you're on a budget though a blue pad from walmart is very nearly as good though.

Closed cell foam. Thermarest zlite and Nemo switchback are the main options. If you put an 1/8th inch Thinlite pad on top of a zlite or switchback, it makes it waaaaay comfier.

agree with first paragraph but you don't always need extra gear to protect, just be careful (something-something skills and all). if you can get past that, the small pack size is a big draw for me i do miss the simplicity of my zlite. maybe i should call her

I'd never talk you out of that, maybe only to upgrade the 1/8 to a torso length z-lite (my 1/8 shredded just looking at it). I only have my inflatable shipped out tome in the colder months. I love it. I love plopping down for a nap anywhere!

Same but I use the z light pad. I'm hoping I can get rid of the inflatable pad one day. Also with the z light if the inflatable pops a hole I'm still good. It's definitely worth the 12 oz or so for me

I use 6 panels of z-lite(shoulders to mid-thigh) with my pack under my legs when temps are above freezing. In colder weather I'll bring an additional full length 1/8" pad to go underneath.

I do the same and am very comfortable, in part because I carry the Z-lite as a backup in case my inflatable fails.

If you're anything like me, you'll test a bunch of inflatable sleeping pads and realize you wasted a ton of money. Then try the Z Lite and realize how comfortable you're on the ground. And how much you hated blowing up those damn balloons. I recommend trying the Z Lite, cut it to size (little shorter than you are) and see how you like if after few nights on the trail. If you hate it, you didn't lose a lot of money. If you like it, congrats, you just saved a bunch of money and you have the fastest sleep setup to set up and take out, and it works great during afternoon siesta and it's puncture proof.

I like the folding therma rest pad like the US Marines get issued. I prefer a foam pad to an inflatable pad when doing "field" things.

After trying a number of inflatables I could not agree more. I get a great sleep with the bog standard z-lite pad; what makes the difference for me is having the pad closer to the ground than an inflatable so that I can have a body part off of the pad without having it drooping several inches below the rest of my body. Downside is the bulk, but it's worth the sleep.

I use a z lite cheapo foam pad by itself in the summer and add a light inflatable one in the winter to bump the r value to 4. I just got the inflatable one as a little luxury and would do all my winter camping with the foam one plus adding clothes, backpack and other soft gear for extra warmth under me. I agree with the others that foam and inflatable are the way to go.

I know weight is death, but an option is stacking a second pad to increase your R value. Layering a closed cell pad like a Z Lite would keep you much warmer

I exclusively sleep on CCF mats. the best budget, packable and easily available option is the Decathlon MT500. The warmest is the Thermarest Ridgerest but it's bulky. The epxed flexmat, Thermarest Z lite and Nemo Switchback are all good but a bit more pricey. Don't get hung up on R values like you would with an inflatable pad. for some reason CCF mats always feel warmer, i think due to the density of the material. I've slept on ice in the alps with CCF mats. As always though it will depend on the person and you'd need to exercise caution with a young en.

I have moved away from the 1/8 inch pad because while it might be lighter, it was causing me to do fewer miles since campsite selection becomes such a priority. For example, I come across a good spot to sleep about 60-90 minutes before I planned to stop. With the 1/8th inch pad I probably need to call it a day because skipping that site means risking not finding another one. Or, I remember one time I wasted a good hour trying to find a nice soft, sandy spot in an otherwise rocky terrain. By contrast, with a switchback or zlite CCF pad I can just kind of hike till I’m tired and as long as I don’t throw the pad down directly on a root or a rock, I don’t have to be very picky with where I sleep for the night. As a result, I can just kind of hike till I’m ready to collapse, throw the pad down, and sleep.

Same here. When I did my life's biggest hike thus far, I was in my early 20's, very close to being underweight, and had zero injuries. Sleeping on a Z-Lite was a no-brainer, and I was comfortable on it. Now, I'm tickling the upper limit of the normal weight range, I have to arrange my legs in a certain way to avoid knee pain, have one shoulder prone for a nerve getting pinched, and one elbow that won't go straight. My Thermarest NeoAir enables me to get a decent night of sleep out there.

I used a Thermarest Ridgerest for years as my only sleeping mat. I used the Z-Lite some too, but the Ridgerest was both more comfortable and warmer. The biggest issue with it was the bulk, but at the time I used a large frameless pack and packed "burrito" style rolling the Ridgerest loosely and packing everything in the middle of it.

Not all CCF is created equal. I always found the Ridgerest to be warmer and more comfortable than the Z-Lite. You could score it where it would fold up too, though not as compact as the Z-Lite. I just can't sleep on CCF pads anymore.

A 1/8 GG Thinlight has very little insulating value - it's not enough on it's on in most circumstances. It's also not very comfortable - some campsites may be fine if you dig out a hole for your hip and have a soft surface, but for many campsites it wouldn't be enough for most people. If you want to go CCF at least go with a Z-lite. The poster above was just making a joke being UL. Nobody would actually recommend you ONLY take a 1/8" pad on a thru hike. There may be people who have - I'm friends with a guy who uses a 45\* bag down to 15\*F - he is just better than most at dealing with discomfort - anyways if you're one of those people that could just use an 1/8" pad, you'd know it!

Check out the thrift shops. I once picked up a Z-rest pad for a few dollars.

I would say no . You are paying for the name . Thermarest. Invented The folding "egg crate" mat, But there are plenty of comparable items available these days. Also, if you're looking at foam mats, the only real benefits of any kind of folding mat, is that it folds (so fast to deploy/fold maybe more packable), and the egg crate pattern makes it somewhat more comfortable than a flat mat. Other than that they are usually significantly heavier. Thermarest CCF mats in particular are quite heavy for what they are. But that may mean that they are more durable, although that isn't a given. Not all CCFs are the same. There is a big variety in material and quality. For instance, I have had a UK made "5 season" mat for 20 years which is the same dimensions as the slightly newer Z-Rest that I also have (bought for my partner), and the older flat mat is less compressible and feels warmer, but it's only 225g (Vs near 400g) and in just as useable condition. It also cost a third of the price at the time!

Well there is a clear difference in both durability and density between different foams available. That is common knowledge. You only have to compare say, a Ridge rest to a cheap blue mat to see that. A Z-Rest sol might well be warmer in practice due to air pockets and reflective coating. I've no way of measuring really. My Z Rest was an original from before the Sol version existed . But the mats I'm referring to are definitely different materials. The ZRest is only as thick as it is due to the eggbox pattern. The foam itself is thinner than the other mat (which is near ½" -12mm). So if it's thicker but lighter, then it might be warmer for its weight. Just as a lighter sleeping bag of higher fill power (i.e. loftier per weight) down can be warmer than a heavier bag. I'm not asserting that my mat is warmer than a z rest , Just that it feels like it is to me. And I'd also contend that you'll claim that all phones are the same is not borne out by my experience. Even when I bought my first mat in the early '80s, there were a range of foams available.

Have multiple inflatables and multiple foam including a foam self inflating. I prefer the foam for both comfort and reliability. Not sure why but I just don't sleep good on the inflatables despite the hype. I still frequently used my Nemo Tensor because it was so space efficient until it let me down in a big way and I spent 3 nights freezing my ass off this April. It was too slow of a leak to locate and patch. I now carry a thermarest z-light and couldn't be happier.

Have you thought about trying a Z Lite or similar first? I've got a 1/8 inch pad and I personally wouldn't recommend using it by itself, unless you're putting it on top of the springiest grass.

For me it really depends what I'm doing and where I'll be sleeping. If I'm sleeping on relatively flat, manicured ground or snow I bring my inflatable Neoair, it's smaller, lighter and warmer. If however I might end up on rocky ground or am climbing something where a bivy isn't intended, but is a possibility I bring my z-lite as I can use it anywhere. So ultimately I'd recommend buying both if you intend to be sleeping on both rocky ground and snow.

If you really want foam, z lites or the equivalent are only 20 inch wide in regular size.

I cannot recommend the therma rest trail scout enough. It's not very thick but it's surprisingly comfortable. Imo as much as the thicker inflatable pads. Nowadays I use a therma rest z lite. It's not inflatable but it's comfortable enough for me. Reason I use it is it's easy to quickly deploy and pack up.

I'm an all ways sleeper, but lean more towards side sleeping. For regular mattresses at home, I like maybe 2 inches of good, soft squish with a firm mattress underneath. So, I don't know if what works for me will work for you. My first closed foam was a Thermarest Ridgerest. It was worse than air pads. The next was the thermarest zlite. (zsol lite?) It was less bad. I keep it to lend people, and keep it attached to my no-warning disaster evacuation bag. I'm currently using the Goodnight EVA from Mountain Laurel Designs. It is only 1/8" thick. I have the 40 x 80 version, but they have various size options for 1/8" and 1/4". If the ground is damp and I'm using my tarp, the size I got keeps me and my stuff off the ground. If the ground is particularly rocky, I can fold in half or in quads, etc depending on what I need. The Goodnight Eva interacts with rocks and lumps differently than the zsolite, because their difference in stiffness. I assumed it would make for a worse sleeping experience with G. EVA, compared to the zsolite. But it turned out to be the opposite. My experience isn't universal. Some of us love the G. EVA, some feel meh, others actively hate it. I'm personally saving up for two more. I plan to put one with my disaster evac pack and another with my disaster first responder pack, so I can stop borrowing it from my backpacking pack. Here are 4 pictures of my sleeping pad to show various ways I use it. https://imgur.com/gallery/3Nu4yK1 Here is a 5th I forgot to upload with the previous album. This one shows room for storing gear next to me, on the pad. https://i.imgur.com/u4mn54g.jpeg Unfortunately, Goodnight EVA is made out of a specialized Evazote foam. (Not the same density as crafting EVA foam.) So it's more expensive than the Zsolite. The size I have is $59, not including shipping. I think their 20x60 version is half that though iirc. Hope this over-abundance of information helps!

No inflatable pad will be immune from failure. I’ve had mine for two years and the older model before it, with no issues. You should be taking a Z-Lite pad as a backup, if you want true peace of mind.

I think with inflatable pads how much you inflate them makes a huge difference. I hate the baffle design of my Therm A Rest Neo Air XLite and have to use it at a fairly low pressure for comfort. Which makes the insulation way worse than its R-value would suggest. A CCF pad like the Z-Lite feels fairly firm and doesn’t seem to lose any insulation no matter how I’m lying on it. Does anyone know how R values are actually measured? Do they use a specific air pressure for inflatable pads and do they use some kind of weight to simulate compression?

I’ve combined my pad, which is rated for 3.5 with a therm a rest z lite and been pretty warm in the 30’s. YMMV of course.

I see you problem as lack of R rating not comfort, I love my ccf pad (zlite) but its too cold it too cold!

I have *exactly* that mattress in mine and have a few notes: -Fit is just about perfect, no issues there, but does take up almost 50% of your trunk storage, so be aware. -It's a bit thin for me, so I supplement with a folding foam Z Rest camping pad and that works pretty well. If I were to do it all over again though, I'd probably shoot for something slightly thicker or firmer to eliminate that need. -Headroom is a little cramped with just the mattress even without a riser/platform. Can't imagine using one with this thing - I probably wouldn't be able to sit upright at that point (and can just barely as it is). -On that last point - if you remove the back bench seat in the R4P, the seat backs will actually lay down nearly completely flat, meaning there's simply no need for a platform in the Prime. It does take a bit of extra time to remove (and you have to store it somewhere overnight since it barely fits in the cab), but this also allows you to increase the total length as well by putting some crates behind each seat and a piece of wood (I'm using a single length of flooring) to span the gap. Also, if you save your traction battery, I've found it's good for about 2 nights worth of heat or AC on a full charge. Hope this helps!

I use my trowel to scrape a depression in the duff at my hip and shoulder spots. I put the pad down and test it out on my back and sides, and adjust, then pitch the shelter. My pad setup is: torso length z-lite style ccf, overlayed with a full-length thinlight. This generally works decently for me.

Not SAR, but ex-light infantry in a unit that let us have a lot of leeway on some kit options. With your requirement for closed cell foam, I'd recommend the Therma-Rest Z rest series. I used one of the originals (and cut it down so it was from my head to knees) to be more smaller and slightly lighter. Lots of times, I'd put the Z Rest on the ground and just drape my sleeping bag across me, not even bothering to get undressed (beyond changing socks) or getting into the sleeping bag. I've slept on frozen ground with an air temp of 10⁰f and humidity of 90% (pacific northwest at sea level) with just the Z Rest under me, in my clothes with a light weight patrol bag and was comfortable for the few hours I had.

I use a BA Rapide SL regular wide. We have a couple of Big Agnes pads and I think they’re comfortable, but the R value is a little exaggerated. My 35# dog loves it too and has not punctured it yet. I now use a lightweight “picnic blanket” to keep my quilt and pad clean and safe from my dog. I was going to use Tyvek but found the sheet in the bargain bin at my local outdoor sports store. My dog sleeps on a well used cut down ZRest pad. During the day, it’s a sit pad and at night it’s her bed. When it’s chilly, I place a piece of fuzzy pile material from Walmart on her bed. I bought by the yard and placed it on her bed at home. She associates the fuzzy pile throw with her bed, so she tends to stay on that and off my pad.

A closed cell foam folding pad like the zrest or switchback is your best choice. It’s 100% packable because you keep it outside your pack (ideal for lunch breaks) and it’s folded up.  The R value is reported around 2.2 but closed cell foam sleeps significantly warmer than inflatable pads with similar R values and they’re great three season pads. They’re much safer than inflatable pads when it’s actually cold outside because you can rely on them.

Most of the modern z-fold egg carton pads are similar to the ridgerest. If you don't like it, you probably won't like the others. I carry a switchback now, but I used to have a zrest and they're about the same.

I had previously only used my z-lite pad and finally decided to get something kore comfortable. I got the non-extreme Tensor and it’s super comfortable and noticeably warmer than just the foam pad. I’ve also stacked the two to protect the tensor from pops and add more insulation. If i decide to do hardcore winter camping I’ll def get the extreme. I also tried a bunch of inflatables at multiple stores and found the tensor to be one of the most comfy in it’s weight class.

Here's some hopefully useful info from my experience: If there is something sharp enough to pop your air mattress, its going right through that 1/8" pad without any problem. Years ago when I used a Tyvek groundsheet, one night in the Sierras there was a small very sharp rock edge embedded in the ground impossible to see ahead of time. It ended up poking a tiny hole through my tyvek, my tent floor, and my mattress, slowly deflating overnight. However, it only took 15-20 minutes for me to identify what caused the puncture, remove/cover the offending rock, re-patch my air mattress, re-inflate and then move on with the rest of the trip. Never leaked again. Point being, it wasn't all that bad to experience a puncture, often they are easily repairable in the field (just make sure you bring the necessary repair kit). If you really want to prevent these sort of punctures, you honestly need a Z-Lite or equivalent CCF pad underneath. A torso length CCF pad is a little heavier than a 1/8" pad, but durability for use as a sit pad & ground protection is probably >100 times greater than the 1/8". And it offers way better insulation properties so it will add warmth to your sleep setup. In my opinion to protect from punctures you really only need a torso length section since that is where all your weight is going when sleeping on the pad and sitting up on it.