Therm-a-Rest - Z Lite Sol

Important to know from the start: I have scoliosis as well as a lingering low back/hip injury, and at home I sleep on a probably-too-soft mattress. But I don't have any of the problems I mention below even when I sleep in a different bed with a different firmness, such as while traveling for work or family. My setup as of last year's season is a Therm-A-Rest Z Lite Sol underneath the Big Agnes Rapide SL inflatable pad (standard length, wide width). In other words, I'm not laying flat on the ground by any means - there's plenty of cushion from uneven or firm ground, and I haven't had any temperature issues (I pair these two pads with a now-discontinued Sea to Summit down bag that's plenty cozy). The Big Agnes pad was new last year, after multiple seasons attempting and failing to make a thin Therm-A-Rest Trail Scout work with the Z-Lite (I would anti-recommend the Trail Scout for this and other reasons). But this current setup isn't working very well, either. On some nights I found myself waking up with a leg or two numb on some nights because of some position that had me cutting off circulation. (This happens at home occasionally when I'm sitting flat on the floor, but rarely when I'm sleeping or lying flat.) Even though I played around with the inflation level of the Big Agnes pad, as I was worried it was maybe too firm at full inflation, that didn't seem to help much. I also prefer to sleep on my stomach, and I haven't figured out a backcountry pillow option that's flat enough to keep my neck at a comfortable angle without being non-existent, as sleeping directly on my arms puts them numb too. Out of desperation, I tried bringing my flat-yet-not-paper pillow from home for a trip last year, which feels embarrassing to write because of the pillow's weight and bulk, lol. If it had worked, I would make adjustments to my kit to bring it every time, but it didn't really fix the setup (which is probably for the best for the rest of my packing list), so I'm back to the drawing board. Given all this, I'm feeling nervous about this season's upcoming trips, as I'm not someone who functions well on a lack of sleep. I'd prefer to try and adapt my current setup before I buy new stuff, too, as these are otherwise high-quality products that I think will last a while, if I can make them work for me. For folks who have finicky backs, or sleep in ways at home that are harder to comfortably do out on trail, how do you adjust your sleep setup for overnighters? What might I change here that will help me sleep better while on trail and thus have a better trip overall? I'm considering the Nemo Fillo Elite - can any stomach sleepers attest to this or other semi-inflatable pillows as being worth the buy?

I'd get some soapy water and check the inflatable pad for a hole. To answer your question, yes, you can use a foam pad under your inflatable, and people do fairly often. I have a Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol sleeping pad that I like very much. It has a reflective side that I find helpful. I also like how it folds instead of rolls for storage.

If you have the space or option of lashing things to your pack, I'd just get two closed cell foam pads, like the Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol or Ridgecrest Classic, and stack them. That would be an R-value of 4. It would be a little bit bulky compared to an inflatable, but it would be cheap, durable, and functional. I'm partial to foam pads, though.

I might be weird, but I really love my Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol. It's 0.75" of rippled closed cell foam. It insulates well enough for me in combination with my sleeping bag, and I like how light and portable it is. Depending upon your sleeping bag and use case, it might not be enough, just as a fair warning. It all depends. I like it, though.

I use a Therm-a-Rest Z-lite Sol for winter, and it works for me. I sleep hot, so its R-value has been adequate for me in combination with my sleeping bag (Kelty Cosmic Synthetic 0) in some subfreezing temps.

Keep your zlite and get adapted by sleeping on it at home every night. Im a side sleeper and after a while it is awesome. When it gets too cold for zlite use 2.

My go to is a 3/4 Thermarest Z-lite Sol foam pad. Light, warm and dependable + it is slim enough to not bother you climbing. Just cut it in the desired length and you are good to go. 3/4 works great for me, as I have a my backpack to put my legs or head on. Pair it with a down jacket and/or a light quilt and a bivy bag and you are all good (note: you can get much better sleep with a heavier setup, or worse with something lighter, so make up your own mind about what you are looking for)

I have both the Z Lite and the Nemo Switchback. I don't have tons of experience with Backcountry's house-brand gear and in particular not this pad. But based on the couple of their items I have bought, and others' experiences I've read about, I'm inclined to guess the Stoic will be only marginally inferior to the Thermarest, and that given the price difference in your market it makes sense to just get the Stoic. Certainly not all foam pads are created equal, even if they look similar, and I personally wouldn't grab a pad from a no-name fly-by-night knockoff off Amazon or AliExpress, because durability issues could easily compromise the already-borderline comfort of a CCF pad, and if it degrades or compresses quite a lot on a long trek it could badly compromise your sleep system warmth. But Backcountry certainly doesn't fall into the fly-by-night category, they stand behind their products reasonably well, and what few reviews I can see seem to be positive. I've heard that for at least some of their house-brand gear - notably some tents - Backcountry licenses outdated designs from bigger name companies, so the manufacturer really can pretty much just change colors and logos and keep making the old gear. Wouldn't be shocked if the Stoic is made in the same factory as pads from some bigger name brand.

I've used the Z Lite a fair bit but haven't had as many opportunities to go backpacking since I got the Switchback, so this isn't a highly well-tested opinion. The Switchback is more comfortable - not by much, but enough to be consistently noticeable. They're essentially identical in most other aspects. The small weight difference in the manufacturers' specs doesn't seem to hold up in the real world; my Z Lite and Switchback weigh exactly the same. Online reviewers similarly say any weight difference is dominated by minor manufacturing variability. Reviewers' pictures all show the Switchback's folded size is smaller, but mine are not very different. Some reviewers say the Switchback is a tiny bit more durable as well - they say that it compresses just a little more slowly and Nemo puts some kind of protective film on the thermal reflective surface. Nemo suggests using theirs thermal reflective side down, and that makes the pad less slippery than using the Z Lite in its recommended reflective up state. Overall, I do think the Switchback is the one to get.

I do like using my z lite on backpacking trips even though I have an air mattress. It’s nice to be able to toss it on the ground and sit or lay down on it. If I thru hiked I might carry both. It’s not going to be cold enough to the point your thermarest isn’t warm enough on its own

You can totally buy other brands, but I disagree about it being worse in terms of warmth. There is a certain warmth-to-weight ratio of foam pads and based on r-value, no one deviates too much from it. If anything the z-sol might be on the warmer side with the air in the dimples isolating and the reflective layer on the bottom.

Or breathe on the SOL zlite to wear off the shiny reflective coating...

Ah, thinking of the ones with silver reflective coating that wears off to dull grey after first couple days.

My 7yr old sleeps on a Z lite sol and loves it. Sometimes he even places it on the floor of his bedroom to sleep on. We've camped down to around 40F with no complaints from him.

Fwiw I've owned the zlite and the Walmart knockoff and if you're going to use it heavily I think the extra $15 is probably worth it, also the non-sol is the only pad I know that isn't bright and reflective if that's important to you

Tbh if you arent planning on sleeping on it for a few hundreds of nights there isnt really a difference, but the foam in the thermarest seems to hold up a little better

I prefer an underquilt, but when I use a pad, I use a CCF Thermarest Solar in the pad layer of my WB Blackbird.

I just got 7 hrs sleep on a z-lite at home. But it has taken me weeks to get used to it! Also with such little R value you might want to wait till summer to try it. I'm in my 60's so I kinda took it as a challenge to be ABLE to do it after seeing a couple older than me sleep all night on a ridgerest in a shelter.

If the Prolite works great for you, why not keep it and cut weight elsewhere? Pads are quite subjective, like recommending shoes. I agree it's a grail hunt, I've went through a bunch too! The Neoair is my go-to, the Exped Ultra is my favorite, and I can get by on a z-lite in warmer weather.

i'm planning to use a ccf thermarest zlite pad with my inflatable mostly for extra warmth as i'm starting early march. it also doubles as a sit pad.

and the nice thing is, if the inflatable were to pop then you can still sleep on the ccf. I spent a whole decade of camping sleeping only on ccf pads, not the most comfortable but it gets the job done.

Most closed cell foam pads will be lower R value but can easily get 2 to reach about the same. They tend to not be as comfortable though. Thermarest Z lite has been one of the better that I've seen, but most closed cell foam pads are about the same. I'd make sure to check the dimensions so that they work with you/your pack system.

Z-Lite (6 panels) with an 1/8in ccf pad from atom packs underneath. I figure this comes to an r-value of about 3, fine for me down to about 2C. I sleep in some smartwool merino leggings to keep my legs warmer as they’re off the end of the foam pads. All of this coupled with good site selection on thick grass or pine needles under some tree cover to help with trapping some heat around the tent and I’m comfortable. Different story in winter.

We have a similar setup, but my wife and I share a double sized down quilt (EE Accomplice) on two air pads and our dog has his cut down ZLite and synthetic Kifaru woobie. Our dog (heeler) is about 40lbs. We are vigilant to keep him from getting on our uncovered air pads. Our quilt more or less covers our two pads, so it adds a layer of protection, but we insist that he stays in his ZLite as much as possible. We've gone out dozens of times and only lost a pad once when he was young and tried to bolt after a goat.

Z lite. Only about $50 and works great even in wet weather.

That's still not true though. An X-therm weighs 16oz and has a R value of 7.3. Whereas a z-lite weighs 14oz and has a R value of 2. Even if we assume that foam pads perform above their stated r value you would still need multiple to match the warmth of a single inflatable.

Second this. Ridgerest or zlite closed cell foam pads are great for kids and actually pretty comfortable and sturdy. 

CCFs are almost always strapped on the outside of the pack, no matter the camper, and can also be used in canoes as a seat padding or knee padding. Nothing to be done if the requirements prevent it (I imagine to keep some kids from bringing way too many creature comforts), but I'd argue it's probably one of the most essential pieces of comfort gear in canoe camping. The folding accordion style of the Z-lite is the usual favourite, but there is also the rollable Ridgerest-style. You won't regret getting one for yourself :)

Careful about buying used zlites/switchbacks. Eggcrate style CCF pads do have a lifespan, will lose their supportiveness over time, and it's hard to tell via pics. The seller might not even realize that it's lost its supportiveness, since it happens slowly over time. Personally, I wouldn't buy a used eggcrate style CCF pad I can't touch and feel, even from a reputable, standup seller.

Slept on a ZLite on the AT and PCT, bought a NeoAir for the CDT and slept great on all of them. 10+ years later and I can’t even come close to a good nights sleep on a 25 inch wide pad with a decent pillow. Probably just need to hike more miles.

agree with first paragraph but you don't always need extra gear to protect, just be careful (something-something skills and all). if you can get past that, the small pack size is a big draw for me i do miss the simplicity of my zlite. maybe i should call her

I'd never talk you out of that, maybe only to upgrade the 1/8 to a torso length z-lite (my 1/8 shredded just looking at it). I only have my inflatable shipped out tome in the colder months. I love it. I love plopping down for a nap anywhere!

the z lite and nemo tensor combo has never failed me

Same but I use the z light pad. I'm hoping I can get rid of the inflatable pad one day. Also with the z light if the inflatable pops a hole I'm still good. It's definitely worth the 12 oz or so for me

Yeah I have one of those, I tried laying on it on the carpet in my apt and it’s so uncomfortable I couldn’t sleep on it unless it was an emergency

There's another viable option you didn't mention; get a Switchback or Zlite. Inflatables are one of the biggest unquestioned dogmas of backpacking, and people don't realize that this is a genuine choice that they're free to make. Choosing to carry such a critical item that can also fail so spectacularly makes little sense to me. CCF doesn't need to be inflated, doesn't need to be deflated, doesn't need to be protected, never leaks or pops, never needs to be patched, can be deployed and put away in seconds, doubles as a luxury sit pad, doubles as a framesheet for frameless packs, doubles as a yoga mat for stretching out, etc. Switching from an inflatable to 6 panels of Switchback for 5.5 oz enlightened me, and I haven't carried an inflatable since. If it was cold, I would. But CCF works for the PCT. Regarding your lighter pack, there are a lot of little changes you could make, but here are the main ones: - your clothing is quite heavy. I'd replace the R1 with an alpha direct hoody. Your puffy is very heavy, and I'd replace it with an EE Torrid, or a cheap Decathtlon MT100, for less than half the weight. Your rain jacket can also be replaced with a cheap frog toggs for again half the weight. - ditch the sleep shirt and sleep pants, just sleep in your midlayers. Alpha direct is very comfy. I hike in shorts, and carry alpha direct pants (for cold mornings, cold passes, camp, sleeping) as well as an alpha direct hoody. I add <2 oz wind pants as needed - you could consider hiking stoveless. Simpler, easier, faster, just as tasty. If not, you can still lighten your cook kit. Replace Toaks 750 with Toaks 550 no handle. Replace the lid with the thin one made by Verkstan on Etsy. Get the world's lightest pot grabber by Grimwood Gear on Etsy. Replace the Pocket Rocket with a BRS3000T - getting a CCF sleeping pad allows you to ditch the sit pad - ditch the crocs - I'd replace the heavy cnoc bag with a platypus or Evernew bag - 1 oz of soap is a ton. You could carry 0.5 oz or less of a concentrated soap like this for the whole trail. I'd ditch the hand sanitizer.

I really encourage you to think outside the box here, and reconsider the answers you've gotten so far. This thread so far is 100% indistinguishable from a thread on a non-UL forum. If you are only camping in warm weather, and you're prioritizing weight and durability, then you do not need an inflatable. You'll be committing to a relatively heavy and fragile piece of gear for no reason. And the R values you're looking at are hugely overkill if you'll never go below 5C and you sleep warm. You're the perfect candidate for a foam pad. Cut a ~1 inch thick CCF pad with R=2 to fit your shoulders to your thighs. It will be like 5-6 oz, it will last forever, it will be cheap, it will be comfortable, it doubles as a luxury sit pad, you can stretch out on it, and it can be a framesheet for a frameless pack. If you've only ever tried shitty CCF, try a Switchback or a Zlite. If you really want to prioritize comfort, consider this; an inflatable that even remotely compares in weight to CCF will leak. It's not if, but when. And then you're sleeping on the ground until you make it back to town.

I use 6 panels of z-lite(shoulders to mid-thigh) with my pack under my legs when temps are above freezing. In colder weather I'll bring an additional full length 1/8" pad to go underneath.

I know weight is death, but an option is stacking a second pad to increase your R value. Layering a closed cell pad like a Z Lite would keep you much warmer

I exclusively sleep on CCF mats. the best budget, packable and easily available option is the Decathlon MT500. The warmest is the Thermarest Ridgerest but it's bulky. The epxed flexmat, Thermarest Z lite and Nemo Switchback are all good but a bit more pricey. Don't get hung up on R values like you would with an inflatable pad. for some reason CCF mats always feel warmer, i think due to the density of the material. I've slept on ice in the alps with CCF mats. As always though it will depend on the person and you'd need to exercise caution with a young en.

I use a 1/8in pad to sleep on, but I am very selective on my sleeping sites. Jupiterhikes on youtube has a video about his site selection techniques for a 1/8in pad in his videos The pad would take something comfortable with no pad and make it a touch more comfortable. Occasionally, if I find a pure sand camping site I'll sleep directly on the sand and find it very comfortable to give you an example of my sleeping habits. In winter I find the 1/8in pad provides no insulation, I have to bring a zlite or an inflatble. and I am also someone who sleeps on my carpet at home.

I have moved away from the 1/8 inch pad because while it might be lighter, it was causing me to do fewer miles since campsite selection becomes such a priority. For example, I come across a good spot to sleep about 60-90 minutes before I planned to stop. With the 1/8th inch pad I probably need to call it a day because skipping that site means risking not finding another one. Or, I remember one time I wasted a good hour trying to find a nice soft, sandy spot in an otherwise rocky terrain. By contrast, with a switchback or zlite CCF pad I can just kind of hike till I’m tired and as long as I don’t throw the pad down directly on a root or a rock, I don’t have to be very picky with where I sleep for the night. As a result, I can just kind of hike till I’m ready to collapse, throw the pad down, and sleep.

My partner and I used to have the same problem where every time one of us moved, it felt like the other was on a trampoline 😂. Switching to a foam pad (we went with a double Thermarest, but I've tested an Exped before and it was great) made such a huge difference for our sleep.

Same here. When I did my life's biggest hike thus far, I was in my early 20's, very close to being underweight, and had zero injuries. Sleeping on a Z-Lite was a no-brainer, and I was comfortable on it. Now, I'm tickling the upper limit of the normal weight range, I have to arrange my legs in a certain way to avoid knee pain, have one shoulder prone for a nerve getting pinched, and one elbow that won't go straight. My Thermarest NeoAir enables me to get a decent night of sleep out there.

I think 2 pads is the way to go, but don't buy a summer pad and a winter pad. Instead, get a 3-season pad and a CCF pad—something like the Thermarest Z Lite or Nemo Switchback. They weigh under a pound, have a 2.0 R rating, and are relatively inexpensive (especially if you're willing to buy used). CCF pads are also handy because they can double as a durable, waterproof, insulated seat if you want to sit down for lunch out in the snow. I have a Big Agnes Q-Core SLX for 3-season backpacking. If I stack it with a Z-Lite, then the total R-value is 5.2, which is enough for any winter camping I'll ever do.

I've been comfortable on 1/4" foam for 500 miles on the CDT through New Mexico (mostly under pine trees) but not on 1/8" foam which I used on my first PCT hike as a backup for my XLITE which leaked out the valve all through Washington, leaving me on the ground multiple times per night, waking me up every hour or so. Personally I like 6 panels of 3/4" zlite (~5 oz) for a bit of a safety margin. One way for you to test both would be to bring a full-length 1/8" pad that you can fold in half into a torso-length 1/4" on a training hike and see what you like. Site selection is obviously important, and for a 1/8" you may want to find/dig a dip for your hip. What is your level of experience and where are you planning to hike?

I used a Thermarest Ridgerest for years as my only sleeping mat. I used the Z-Lite some too, but the Ridgerest was both more comfortable and warmer. The biggest issue with it was the bulk, but at the time I used a large frameless pack and packed "burrito" style rolling the Ridgerest loosely and packing everything in the middle of it.

Not all CCF is created equal. I always found the Ridgerest to be warmer and more comfortable than the Z-Lite. You could score it where it would fold up too, though not as compact as the Z-Lite. I just can't sleep on CCF pads anymore.

A 1/8 GG Thinlight has very little insulating value - it's not enough on it's on in most circumstances. It's also not very comfortable - some campsites may be fine if you dig out a hole for your hip and have a soft surface, but for many campsites it wouldn't be enough for most people. If you want to go CCF at least go with a Z-lite. The poster above was just making a joke being UL. Nobody would actually recommend you ONLY take a 1/8" pad on a thru hike. There may be people who have - I'm friends with a guy who uses a 45\* bag down to 15\*F - he is just better than most at dealing with discomfort - anyways if you're one of those people that could just use an 1/8" pad, you'd know it!

Check out the thrift shops. I once picked up a Z-rest pad for a few dollars.

I would say no . You are paying for the name . Thermarest. Invented The folding "egg crate" mat, But there are plenty of comparable items available these days. Also, if you're looking at foam mats, the only real benefits of any kind of folding mat, is that it folds (so fast to deploy/fold maybe more packable), and the egg crate pattern makes it somewhat more comfortable than a flat mat. Other than that they are usually significantly heavier. Thermarest CCF mats in particular are quite heavy for what they are. But that may mean that they are more durable, although that isn't a given. Not all CCFs are the same. There is a big variety in material and quality. For instance, I have had a UK made "5 season" mat for 20 years which is the same dimensions as the slightly newer Z-Rest that I also have (bought for my partner), and the older flat mat is less compressible and feels warmer, but it's only 225g (Vs near 400g) and in just as useable condition. It also cost a third of the price at the time!

Well there is a clear difference in both durability and density between different foams available. That is common knowledge. You only have to compare say, a Ridge rest to a cheap blue mat to see that. A Z-Rest sol might well be warmer in practice due to air pockets and reflective coating. I've no way of measuring really. My Z Rest was an original from before the Sol version existed . But the mats I'm referring to are definitely different materials. The ZRest is only as thick as it is due to the eggbox pattern. The foam itself is thinner than the other mat (which is near ½" -12mm). So if it's thicker but lighter, then it might be warmer for its weight. Just as a lighter sleeping bag of higher fill power (i.e. loftier per weight) down can be warmer than a heavier bag. I'm not asserting that my mat is warmer than a z rest , Just that it feels like it is to me. And I'd also contend that you'll claim that all phones are the same is not borne out by my experience. Even when I bought my first mat in the early '80s, there were a range of foams available.

Have you thought about trying a Z Lite or similar first? I've got a 1/8 inch pad and I personally wouldn't recommend using it by itself, unless you're putting it on top of the springiest grass.

Yeah the temp of the ground is a huge factor I think. I’ve been surprisingly warm on a zlite even in the low 20s but the ground was very warm.

For me it really depends what I'm doing and where I'll be sleeping. If I'm sleeping on relatively flat, manicured ground or snow I bring my inflatable Neoair, it's smaller, lighter and warmer. If however I might end up on rocky ground or am climbing something where a bivy isn't intended, but is a possibility I bring my z-lite as I can use it anywhere. So ultimately I'd recommend buying both if you intend to be sleeping on both rocky ground and snow.

If you really want foam, z lites or the equivalent are only 20 inch wide in regular size.

The basic deal is that you have what's probably a 27F comfort-rated bag and a 3.2 R-value pad, so it's really no surprise that you're cold at 0F or whatever. If you're not hypothermic, you're doing great! (In a manner of speaking.) I think these two things actually work for upgrading a sleeping system in a modular fashion: 1. Supplemental CCF pad. Try six panels of ZLite or similar to see if you can get away with that. I find that I'm fine in the single digits with an XLite and six panels of ZLite, but your mileage may vary. (I sleep colder than you do -- I would DIE at 15F in your kit.) 2. Aegismax Mini sleeping bag. It's a hoodless EN comfort-rated 52F sleeping bag that weighs about a pound. It has sewn through baffles and can be bought for $85. I'm 6'1" or so and marginally okay with the non-long version. Both of those are pretty weight-efficient approaches, IME.

A basic Therm-o-rest z-Lite pad is inexpensive. If you want it shorter, you can cut a section or two off. The piece makes for a nice dry sit-pad. W/o a pad, you’ll eventually have a cold, suffering, sleepless night.

I cannot recommend the therma rest trail scout enough. It's not very thick but it's surprisingly comfortable. Imo as much as the thicker inflatable pads. Nowadays I use a therma rest z lite. It's not inflatable but it's comfortable enough for me. Reason I use it is it's easy to quickly deploy and pack up.

No inflatable pad will be immune from failure. I’ve had mine for two years and the older model before it, with no issues. You should be taking a Z-Lite pad as a backup, if you want true peace of mind.

I think with inflatable pads how much you inflate them makes a huge difference. I hate the baffle design of my Therm A Rest Neo Air XLite and have to use it at a fairly low pressure for comfort. Which makes the insulation way worse than its R-value would suggest. A CCF pad like the Z-Lite feels fairly firm and doesn’t seem to lose any insulation no matter how I’m lying on it. Does anyone know how R values are actually measured? Do they use a specific air pressure for inflatable pads and do they use some kind of weight to simulate compression?

You need to try them out since it’s rather personal. I can’t stand pure air mattresses but I do like closed foam air mattresses. And, when it comes to sleep I’m more than willing to break UL because getting a great night sleep is way better than so-so or crappy sleep. I actually use a ZLite and Nemo Flyer. As a side sleeper and getting up in age the extra weight and space is more than worth it for me.

Both! And as a side sleeper it helps my lean frame get extra padding. Plus the ZLite is perfect for a lunch sit pad, afternoon snooze, placing gear on when it’s kind of dusty or damp, protects my air pad, etc.

I carry a ZLite for my dog and place along side of me.

I don’t know all of those pads so I can’t say this all applies. Anyhow, I’m a side sleeper and on the lean side so I don’t have much body padding. I am also a very light sleeper and even in the comfort of my home I wake usually every 90 minutes; and take a while to fall asleep again. I dislike pads that are air only. I actually use a ZLite and a Nemo Flyer (normal width). The ZLite is good protection for the Flyer; and a convenient sit or layout mat during the day. The Flyer is air with internal open cell foam so it isn’t that void of just air which I dislike. The combined R value is 5.3. It is however 2.25 pounds. I’m often in Ventana Wilderness and the Sierra and that includes high Sierra in the winter sleeping on snow. It’s definitely warm enough insulation for me and comfortable so I get descent sleep.

I see you problem as lack of R rating not comfort, I love my ccf pad (zlite) but its too cold it too cold!

Comfort is soo subjective! I find my z-lite comfortable! I take a 5mm ccf pad most of the time and I find that comfortable!  It all depends on what your used to or willing to get used to!

I have *exactly* that mattress in mine and have a few notes: -Fit is just about perfect, no issues there, but does take up almost 50% of your trunk storage, so be aware. -It's a bit thin for me, so I supplement with a folding foam Z Rest camping pad and that works pretty well. If I were to do it all over again though, I'd probably shoot for something slightly thicker or firmer to eliminate that need. -Headroom is a little cramped with just the mattress even without a riser/platform. Can't imagine using one with this thing - I probably wouldn't be able to sit upright at that point (and can just barely as it is). -On that last point - if you remove the back bench seat in the R4P, the seat backs will actually lay down nearly completely flat, meaning there's simply no need for a platform in the Prime. It does take a bit of extra time to remove (and you have to store it somewhere overnight since it barely fits in the cab), but this also allows you to increase the total length as well by putting some crates behind each seat and a piece of wood (I'm using a single length of flooring) to span the gap. Also, if you save your traction battery, I've found it's good for about 2 nights worth of heat or AC on a full charge. Hope this helps!

If you're hitting -7°C, look for something with an R-value of 6 or higher. That's more important than brand. You can absolutely layer a cheaper pad (R2–3) over a foam pad like the Therm-a-Rest Z Lite (R2). Combined, they'll keep you warm and cost half as much as an XTherm.

I actually have one and do use it occasionally when I want to go super minimal. But generally prefer an inflatable, I’m a side sleeping woman with hips! Thanks for your input though, glad it works for you!

I am a simple man. Purchased a Thermarest Z Lite in 2021 and will not look back. $50USD. 410g so a little heavier than yours. But, no puncture risk 👌Pack on the outside of the pack 💯 I tried the cool inflatable ones that cost a lot of dollars in my earlier packing days. Really, I did. But this pad is better. IMHO

I use my trowel to scrape a depression in the duff at my hip and shoulder spots. I put the pad down and test it out on my back and sides, and adjust, then pitch the shelter. My pad setup is: torso length z-lite style ccf, overlayed with a full-length thinlight. This generally works decently for me.

A closed cell foam folding pad like the zrest or switchback is your best choice. It’s 100% packable because you keep it outside your pack (ideal for lunch breaks) and it’s folded up.  The R value is reported around 2.2 but closed cell foam sleeps significantly warmer than inflatable pads with similar R values and they’re great three season pads. They’re much safer than inflatable pads when it’s actually cold outside because you can rely on them.

Hike your own hike, but if you're looking for suggestions: [https://a.co/d/2W96Msh](https://a.co/d/2W96Msh) Inflatables pop, then they're just expensive trash or dead weight. You might be careful, but that sharp rock might not be. The Z-lite is 350 grams / 12.4 ounces. No pillow, but you can use the one you have or a pack with padding for that if you're trying to save weight. Shiny side goes up in the winter to reflect body heat back up to you, yellow side up in warm weather to help cool you off. The egg carton design gives you more cushion than the inflatable pads, in my opinion, and the additional surface area and waffle craters help trap heat when you need it. As far as storage, you can strap this outside your pack and don't have to worry about scraping up against rocks/branches. I've been using the same one for almost twenty years and it still works great.

I hiked in 23. Started with an inflatable but switched to an accordion pad in Harper's ferry after getting holes. Used the same therma rest accordion one this year on the PCT. Was down in the 20s a few nights and I was fine with that and my quilt but Im also a warm sleeper. The air are much more comfortable but I like not having to worry about holes or inflating it. Its also nice to have for an easy sit pad.

It works fine the width can be annoying when bushwacking or hurdling trees. I moved to a 20" pad and cut my wide one down to 5-6 panels for my dog or to use with a full 20" sometimes IMO a good pillow with a lot of height to it is key if your going CCF If you dont yet have the exped pad and can afford say a nemo or thermarest 20" ccf id try those if you wanna do a ccf they have a slightly higher r value and are better to hike with PROS: i like the simplicity and durability of ccf pads especially because my dog cant pop them and you can use them as a sit pad or a stool when folded they are great during breaks for that reason CONS:obviously they aren't as comfortable especially the 1st night or two but if your doing big miles anything is pretty comfortable at the end of the day My 1st PCT section hike i brought one of the expedition mats and an inflatable pad. My inflatable pad ended up popping in a manor that was un repairable and I was soo thankful to have the ccf Since that trip I use a ccf pad 90% of the time That being said ccf is not for everyone or most people

I had previously only used my z-lite pad and finally decided to get something kore comfortable. I got the non-extreme Tensor and it’s super comfortable and noticeably warmer than just the foam pad. I’ve also stacked the two to protect the tensor from pops and add more insulation. If i decide to do hardcore winter camping I’ll def get the extreme. I also tried a bunch of inflatables at multiple stores and found the tensor to be one of the most comfy in it’s weight class.

Here's some hopefully useful info from my experience: If there is something sharp enough to pop your air mattress, its going right through that 1/8" pad without any problem. Years ago when I used a Tyvek groundsheet, one night in the Sierras there was a small very sharp rock edge embedded in the ground impossible to see ahead of time. It ended up poking a tiny hole through my tyvek, my tent floor, and my mattress, slowly deflating overnight. However, it only took 15-20 minutes for me to identify what caused the puncture, remove/cover the offending rock, re-patch my air mattress, re-inflate and then move on with the rest of the trip. Never leaked again. Point being, it wasn't all that bad to experience a puncture, often they are easily repairable in the field (just make sure you bring the necessary repair kit). If you really want to prevent these sort of punctures, you honestly need a Z-Lite or equivalent CCF pad underneath. A torso length CCF pad is a little heavier than a 1/8" pad, but durability for use as a sit pad & ground protection is probably >100 times greater than the 1/8". And it offers way better insulation properties so it will add warmth to your sleep setup. In my opinion to protect from punctures you really only need a torso length section since that is where all your weight is going when sleeping on the pad and sitting up on it.

I have been using my thermarest ccf pad for 20 years. Warm, durable, light weight.

I just Sept on the rei campwell for 7 nights. Best sleep I've ever gotten camping. I've had the klymit static v, and a foam thermarest. This thing is pretty big and not heavy but not light. Had it strapped to my Ibex 450 for the the entire week riding the lower half of the MABDR. I use 2 rok straps and it never moved. Absolutely love this thing. Both of my riding buddies were on blow up mats one Nemo and one thermarest. Both were cold and not sleeping well the whole trip. I'm a stomach and side sleeper.

The suggestion of a rental is a good idea if you currently aren’t interested in making this a hobby! If you are looking to buy, however, the foam Therm-o-Rest pads are the classic camping pad that everyone owns one of. They z-fold up into a rectangular stack and are relatively light and cheap. I’m 40 and need a little extra cushion on the trail these days, so I use an air mattress. Therm-o-rest has some decent priced air mattresses, but they are a little spartan compared to some of the more expensive air mattresses.

Have you considered a camping cot? There are a lot of ultralight options now which are about the same price as a good sleeping pad for side sleepers. The only difference being is the weight, you’re looking at around 1.5kg for a cot bed which would be double the weight of a sleeping pad. For me, the extra weight is worth it for the comfort. For context I’ve tried Therm-a-Rest, Big Agnes and Nemo mats. If I’m going for comfort, the cot bed wins every time.

For one year trip I would use something cheaper, more sturdy than ultralight. Thermarest often listed is great but £50 decathlon air mat is more sustainable, you'll have less stress. To increase R factor, you can add some CCF pad.

It's very simple if it blows up with air and inflates - at SOME point it's gonna get a hole in it. That's life! The whole air mattress thing started with Therm-a-rest's and they were pretty tough back then, now with everybody sporting hard-on's for "ultralight" gear its gonna get worse. Same goes for actual air mattress, you can sleep on them but if you're not in Texas or Arizona yer still gonna freeze your butt off. Here's why ....... People these days buy inflatable pads for the comfort, but you really need them for the insulative qualities they actually provide. Don't believe me go sleep on the actual ground one night. When you crawl in to your sleeping bag you actually crush the down or syntho fill in the bag so there is no insulation there under you and the cold even in summer can seep right in. You need a pad under you to keep you off the ground ..... the best ones for that are still the cheap blue ensolite foamy's you buy at the cheaper stores but yes, for comfort they suck. There is a yellow thicker brand called Zotefoams Evazote and they got up to an inch thick but I haven't seem them for years but they were good quality and tough and CAN'T deflate ! So ultimately if you want comfort you need to go buy a big chunk of open cell white foam four inches thick and 7 feet long like you see in hobby stores - mega comfy and the size of a house! But now you can't pack it anyway so you're back to the blow up pads - and that's it. You can go to stores and look at stuff like Futons and crap but they don't pack well ! Heck even Ikea makes a folding mattress but again good luck carrying it around, right? Pick one but they WILL get a hole in them at some point however you can try to limit that with a cot. I've used them for years and its nice. I'm gonna suggest a Cabella's Lounger Cot but they are $350 bloody bucks and the same goes a real camping pad, something like a Exped Megamat itself is $400 bucks by itself. The two cots I wanna get are gonna cost me $405 bucks so add in two decent pads like Expeds and they're $500 .... great huh? It's nuts at a thousand bucks! I actually might just go get some memory foam cut at an RV store and use that. They can't deflate and its about the same bloody price as these inflatable ones, granted it won't be near as packable and portable but both my Thermarest leak, both my Big Agnes pad leak, even the TWO Coleman air beds leak, you can't win. My tent is 210 sq feet and 10 feet tall so I don't need backpack-ability either ........

This comes up a lot. Search the sub for ‘mat’ for loads of replies. For me, thermarest, but I’ll break your budget unless you can get one second hand.

we each have a folding cot with a thermarest and a sleeping bag. we go car camping so it all fits in the back seat and the trunk. We also have (what they call) a seven person tent, but it fits our cots and a folding table comfortably, and we can stand up in it.

I did the PCT with just the thermarest and it was fine. I did the AZT with Thermarest and 1/8" foam pad and it was awesome. I slept much warmer and it was very nice to have the foam pad for breaks.

If you plan to sleep in shelters at all, you definitely want something under your pad to protect it from splinters and nails. My first thermarest popped in TN due to me raw dogging it in shelters. For my second pad, I got a sheet of tyvek and it made it all the way to Maine without any issues.

Have you actually tried the Klymit? I’m pretty sure it’s up there with thermarest in terms of popular backpacking mats. I’ve always used thermarests. That Coleman mat looks like it’s made for car camping, not backpacking. You should be able to find the R-value of the Klymit pad on the packaging to find out if it’s insulated or not.

Well if you need quality, comfort and light easy portable one… term a rest is just the best in the market. We use those for 20 years down here wile fly fishing in bariloche, patagonia Argentina. Good luck!👍

Cot and thermarest is boss. I use a folding wide, heavy duty woods cot. It’s heavy and has some bulk, but I’m usually near my truck or boat.

I’ve been using. Therma-rest for years. There might be better tech out there these days, but they’ve always served me well.

Yup. Those thick air mattresses are horrible to share with another person. I go with a good, solid cot with a thermarest for some padding and will never look back. For excursions where the cot is too bulky to bring along, the thermarest works fine.

We have a similar cot and thermarest. Very comfortable, and keeps us warm. We only camp in winter, early spring and fall.

Op zolder liggen 2 thermarest matten waar ik als kind nog op geslapen heb toen ik met m'n ouders kampeerde, 20-25 jaar geleden. Basic matjes, niet enorm dik maar tot ik m'n huidige (totaal niet compacte) tweepersoons van Redwood kocht altijd goed op geslapen.

i used a cot camping a few times with a thermarest on top. pros: off the ground and good on my back. cons: arms hung over the sides and hurt in the morning, pillow kept sliding off, wobbled long ways (not side to side) a lot when i moved around. i recommend an extra wide one to help w the arms hanging off the sides or use a sleeping bag. in the end it was heavy and not worth it for me when camping

I have no complaints about my thermarest. I can even sleep on my side without hip pain. OK, well it is a little noisy.

My thermarest is over 25 years old and I think had one leak that I patched. maybe?

I like my Thermarest. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Excellent mattress! I used it with pleasure but then switched to the thermarest which is lighter and I feel great with it.

I haven't had a good night sleep until I started to use the Rapid SL. It has a good weight I think, the R rating is valid on it, only need higher for winter camping (for that i'm using the therm-o-rest, which is crazy good, except the shape, where i much prefer the rectangle shape of the Rapide with the raised sides, because I'm turning around a lot). To fit the pump you do need to be a bit aggressive with it but doable. Side note: a non fully inflatable pillow made a big difference for me to get comfy 

I am twisting and turning around a lot even after I fell asleep and with the mummy shaped pad I often found myself halfway off the pad in the middle of the night.

I've had thermarest since their inception. Great product

I havepunctured 2 thermarests on rocks pr thorns. I won’t be using them again.

what brands? i only use thermarest bc they're the most reliable

Nope, have had mine for 10 years, still noisy.

Something like a Thermorest may be a good solution. They pack down small, are lightweight but robust, are an ok size and provide good ground insulation for those chilly Alpine nights

I fly with my thermarest

I like the one I have, it’s as old as I am

I have one Exped and one Therm-a-rest in this style. At first, they’re great. Over time, the Exped began to leak, and I think the TaR is now doing the same. As best I can tell, the rubber lining inside the fabric begins to slowly degrade and develop pinhole leaks. You never hear leaking air. You just wake up in the morning with your hip touching the ground (I’m a side sleeper). I stored both fully extended, with the valves open, so keeping them compressed in the sack was not the problem.

I have a neo air - cost a bomb when I got it about ten years ago. Definitely worth it - warm and comfy! Before that I "borrowed" my auntie's thermarest back in 2003 - that was a few years old then. I think I only made one repair.

Yeah that is actually weird. When I bought my thermarest it was around 100 €, tough as nails, just under a kilo and I've never been cold on it even in sub freezing (the R-value is low though) But it seems the 100 € pad category has either gone extinct or prices have inflated.

I bought a thermarest. I do not believe in blow up mats because a pinhole means you wake up two hours later lying on the ground cold as fuck wishing you had bought something else, then spending an hour trying to find a way to warm up when you’ve already fucked that chance.

My gunner and I would stick a pair of stretchers in the back of our Bradley—quality sleep right there. (If you’re not blessed with being mech infantry—why let your ruck ride you when you can ride your ruck?—I always went thermarest)

I got my thermarest on ebay for a good price