Saucony - Xodus Ultra

I have Xodus Ultra 2 and it works well enough for me. Is 3 a similar fit?

Saucony xodus ultra (v1)

Xodus ultra are my favourite. V1 and V2. Perigrine second place for shorter trails or muddy days. One thing I do is to re-sole the shoes (xodus ultra) after lose grip or spikes. New Vibram soles are great and give a seconde life.

Saucony xodus ultra 2

Drop and stack height can depend on user preferences and training to a big extent. Shoe traction, trail surface, and how you run and place your feet also matter. I've run in 0mm to 8mm drop shoes over the years, all are fine for me. On some rocky/technical trails, I've actually been faster and more confident in Speedgoats (4mm) or the Saucony Xodus Ultra (6mm), both high stack shoes because I could stomp on whatever sharp rocks without concern vs lower stack shoes with more ground feel where eventually I'd be picking my way through sharp objects because of the repeated impacts. On the flip side, I'm slower with high stack shoes when going downhill on loose surfaces and making a lot of sharp turns. "Ideal" is kind of hard to think about for me. Generally? Specifically on certain surfaces or races or trails? It's all tradeoffs, you might be slower on the technicals but faster everywhere else in mid/high stack mid drop shoes. How much technical stuff are we talking here?

I have >150 miles in the Tomir 2.0 and previously ran in the Xodus Ultra 1 and 2, and Peregrine 13. Also >500 miles in 2 pairs of the Endorphin Edge. Typically run on hard packed rocky trails. First 50-70 or so miles in the Tomir 2.0 felt a bit narrow in the forefoot/toebox. Not a big issue for short runs, moderately uncomfortable for longer runs. Loosening the laces helped a bit. After 70 miles, the insole has packed down and the upper fabric has loosened so they are generally fine for me on longer runs. I know it's not a case of my feet acclimating to being squeezed because my road shoes were squeezing my feet the whole time until I replaced them recently with the wider Mount to Coast R1. I've done several 20+ mile >4,000 foot runs in the Tomir 2.0 with some moderately technical sections, no width related issues anymore. The cushioning is on the firm side and took some getting used to. Endorphin Edge generally felt like a straight upgrade to the Xodus, lighter and faster feeling at higher paces. Some reviewers reported stability issues but I suspect it's due to (1) the Endorphin Edge being too wide for people who run in Hokas and Nikes, (2) high/max stack, and (3) the Endorphin Edge's plate. In my use, I had to slow down slightly on the looser and more technical downhills particularly when making turns but was notably faster with less effort and more comfort everywhere else. Main downside is that it's a struggle for me to get 300 miles out of a pair because the outsole peeled where the cutouts are, and that the outsole material itself doesn't flex well so I've lost chunks of outsole. It was worth the money when on sale but might be harder to find now. I just pre ordered the Mount to Coast T1 and am hoping it will be a good ultra shoe for me. I've had their R1 road shoes for some time and it fits and runs well for me.

I'm on my third pair of Endorphin Edges and that's how my first pair looked after around 160 miles/257 km mainly on dry rocky US southwest trails. My second pair looked better at the same level of use on the same trails. My third pair is around 100 km and looks to be close to my second pair. I took them out to 300 miles but was more careful on traction for the last bit. Similar results on both pairs of my Xodus Ultra 2s and Peregrine 12. So normal for Saucony but on the lower end for trail shoes in general. What is particularly concerning for me was the damage and peeling from the outsole cutouts and straight up losing chunks of outsole lugs as opposed to having them wear down like in other shoes. It's a shame, because I love the fit of the Endorphin Edge and it's otherwise very durable in the upper and midsole since I retired them from harder trails but still use them for easier trails and roads. I hope Saucony addresses this and was surprised to see their trail line wane after 2020-2023.

I have ~100 miles in the Tomir 2 and ran extensively in the Endorphin Edge, Peregrine, Xodus Ultra, and Speedgoat. For me, the Tomir 2.0 is most like the Peregrine but with better traction. I wouldn't use the Peregrine in anything over a marathon and ditto with the Tomir 2.0. The main selling point of the Tomir 2 to me is better traction and overall shoe life (remains to be seen) since my Peregrines were done after 270 miles on my usual rocky trails. Of these, I like the Endorphin Edge the most and used it for my recent races and long runs. Outsole life and traction need improvement though, I've straight up lost chunks of outsole.

Yes but it's not just the high stack for me. Outsole grip/traction, upper fabric security (does it stretch a lot or keep my feet directly over the sole at all times?), and how soft/firm the cushioning is matter some too. I'd still wear high stack shoes like Speedgoats, Xodus Ultra 1-2, and others over loose rocky terrain but will slow down to maintain stability. I wouldn't be running them much faster with lower stack shoes because the risk and consequences is still higher and I'd be making trade offs with foot comfort and overall pace e.g., faster and more comfy the rest of the time vs being slightly faster on rocks but overall slower because after a while my feet get punctured.

Xodus ultra 2s…having trouble replacing them 😆

So comfortable just the quality is sh*t. Toes rip so easily

I agree with the other poster. Highly recommend going to a dedicated running store and trying g them on. In my experience, peregrines struggle on truly technical terrain. Anything over 12ish miles and my feet really start to feel it. I moved to speed goats directly after peregrines and my feet are much happier in that regard. I’m guessing this is for winter? Solomon thunder cross have great grip but are less cushioned. They are waterproof. If you like the peregrines you may want to try the xodus ultra line. I have a pair of xodus ultra 2 ice or shield or winter or whatever they branded it as that I bought and really like. Only ran in them once or twice as I’m saving them for winter (I think it’ll roughly coincide with when my speedgoats start to fail).

Yeah all for free. They actually just gave me an online store credit for the price of the shoes, which was cool because I bought the xodus ultra 2 instead and much prefer them.

Agree with the others, there’s no way of knowing what fits right until you try them on. I am running in the speedgoat 6 currently and think they’re great. I also have a pair of xodus ultra 2 Ice that I’ll work in once it gets snowy as they’re more built for that weather, but they seem to fit a bit narrower than my speedgoats do.

My Saucony Xodus Ultra 2 is my go-to winter/shitweather shoe, amazing grip on mud/sand/gravel/rocks/sand. Whatevr my next trail shoes will be, they need to have that same outsole. Not waterproof though.

Saucony Xodus ultra 2. There is just so much fun in that shoe.

So 2024 has ended and I've been training an racing with several trail shoes from Saucony. I am aware that the shoes I've been using are older models, but here are my thoughts: Saucony ride 15 tr. Great door to trail shoe. Use: daily trainer, road, gravel, ligth trails. Pros: very comfortable, durable, lightweight, and a great option for road and easy trails. Cons: not the best lockdown when things get a bit rough (steep, rooty, rocky). Over 913 km from January this year, plus some more km hiking (probably over 1000 km), and still comfortable to run some more. Saucony peregrine 13. Very good on rocky, technical terrain. Use: any trail up to marathon distance. Pros: ligth, very good traction, great stability, superb fit and lockdown, great protection thanks to the rockplate and upper overlays, great midsole for trail running that is also durable. Cons: toe box could be a bit wider for longer distances, outsole does not perform well on wet rock, and the exposed midsole on the heel area is a problem because any sharp rock can split the midsole in two very easily. I was aware of this problem before buying the peregrines but they were on sale. After 150 km both shoes started to split from this area. I had to fix it by applying contact glue, and I ended up "filling" this space with glue to level it to the rest of the outsole. The outsole also has some cutouts to show the rockplate that are likely to peel off very easily on rough terrain. The heel repair is holding up quite well though. Over 401 km from December last year. Saucony Xodus Ultra 2. I bought them for an ultra because I was not sure about the peregrines cushion-wise and since the heel started to split in both shoes. Use: any trail, specially if it's above marathon distance. Pros: very good cushioning that is also fun to run in, well structured and protected, not as stable as the peregrines but good enough for rough trails, roomy toe box for ultras, good traction. Cons: the upper, while good and comfortable, is a bit too complicated (two layers, an elastic lace cover). The outsole does not perform well on wet rock and it has several cutouts which are likely the spots where the outsole will start to peel off from. Over 250 km from june this year.

I love my Xodus Ultras for anything longer than a marathon. I also have Peregrines but they have a much shorter stack and are better for shorter races.

Saucony Xodus Ultra 1 and Hilma Wildbound

Trail: Saucony Xodus Ultra, Topo Mt Racer, Brooks Cascadia Road: Saucony Speed, Brooks Ghost, Hilma Anywhere

I’ve been using the Saucony Xodus Ultra 2 for the muddy PNW trails this winter. Love em, but the grip is terrible on wet rocks. You kinda have to choose between one or the other. I just picked up a pair of the Nnormal Kjerag and the grip is phenomenal, although the cushion and tread is fairly minimal. I have a half marathon and a 20 mile race coming up I’ll use the Kjerag for… but I think anything longer than that I may snag the newer Kjerag Brut that has more cushion and larger lugs.

Ran ultra marathons (50-100 mi) in the XODUS1-2 and loved them. All terrains and climates here in MT. Looking at the EXODUS Ultra now as a possibility as I need more cushion after my back surgery

Saucony Xodus ultra 2 and Peregrine 13/15 rotation

My Peregrines fit my foot shape like they are custom made for me, but my forefeet can get a bit sore on longer runs in the Peregrines. I recently got the Xodus for longer runs. Love it so far, but it’s early. The forefoot is looser on my foot shape, and I do have to ankle lock laces to keep my heel more secure, so still fiddling with how tight to make them. The ride is blissful. The tradeoff with ground feel is noticeable, but I’ve felt secure in them so far in wet, cold, semi-muddy conditions, although nothing technical.

If you think the Xodus Ultra 2 has bad grip on wet rocks, you should try Endorphin Edge Trail :D Got over 360km in the Xodus (so far) and 210km in the Edge and Endorphin Edge is by far the most unstable trail shoe I've owned, combined with the worst grip on wet..

I do like these, but I destroyed the outsole running on technical trails the very first time I took them out. I feel like they are better for non-or only moderately technical routes.

Same thing happened to my xodus ultra on the very first run. Albeit on aggressive trails. I glued it back together and have stuck to basic trails and they have been fine but yeah kinda disappointing

I really like my Xodus Ultra 2s and have run most of my longer trail races in them although only up to 50k. They did great for me in wet and technical running but I’m a middle of the pack runner that is mostly cruising. If you like the Invincible for road, you might give the Nike Zegama 2 a look since it’s basically an Invincible made for trail. It’s definitely a comfort focused trail shoe.

Xodus Ultra 4 (just came out) switches to Vibram for its outsole. Wore it for a technical ultra and worked really well.

They feel great. I got along really well with the first one but 2 was a tad narrow for me. This one has a little more squish and width and it worked great during the race. Wore it for the last 30 of my 100 along with 20ish training miles. 

Really difficult to say. Vibram should be a massive improvement but for me the Xudos 1 was great, 2 upper fell apart and 3 was too narrow for me....we shall see where the 4 goes as an overall package. I think they are coming out in June?

Xodus ultra 2, I’m just over 300 miles into them and they are the best I’ve owned, worn them from 10 mile races to ultras

if you are in asics n like asics fit, maybe Fuji n Trabuco also something you should look into. for my light gravel, i have Novablast3 TR, n sometimes also got away with Adizero SL2. but my long distance trail shoes are Torrent2, Speedgoat5, XodusUltra2 n just newly acquired EndorphinRift. among my lineup, SG5 probably overkill for something under 30km. for Salomon, most reviewer would highlight about its narrowness. take note

I’ve run lots of technical alpine CO terrain up to 50k. I’ve found the Mafate Speed 4 and Xodus Ultra 2 to be comfortable and capable for long mountain days including scrambling. Merrell Agility Peak 5 also good. Speedgoat didn’t work for my foot but is a renowned mountain ultra shoe. I think pretty much any outsole will be capable in our dry climate and terrain, including some light scrambling- I would head to One of our great running stores in Denver metro and try on a bunch of pairs to see what feels good for your feet. Comfort is the most important factor for a long mountain day, more so than all the performance features *I do have a pair of Prodigio Pros that I intend to use for your stated purpose

I like the Peregrines for shorter distances as well. Not bad as a door to trail shoe. If I’m looking at 10 miles or more, I’m definitely going with my Xodus Ultra 2’s. More padding, better and more secure lacing and an all around more comfortable shoe for me. Xodus Ultra is designed specifically for those longer distances.

Big fan of saucony peregrines and xodus ultras. I will say they aren’t great in slippery conditions. Have used both for non tech 100s.

I had a pair of peregrine 13s that were some of my favorites but sucked when you bash them toes. Got a new pair of the 15s MDW on sale for 104. Way better toe box and toe guard? And imo better lugs Than the 13s. Gone through 2 pairs of the ultra 2. One of my favorite shoes in terms of comfort and not too high of stack. Not sure how the latest ones are. Both shoes great all around for all terrain. Just always found the grip was poor in slippery stuff, aka slick rock. If they’d just put vibram on, I’d probably not use other shoes

For Saucony you better look at the Xodus Ultra which is wider than the Peregrine.

Saucony Xodus Ultra for everything from dirt and mud to light scrambling and rock hopping. The Xodus line has gotten really tall and kind of unstable though. I've rolled my ankles so many times with the Ultra whereas I had no problems with the 10 and 11.

Speedcross is rather for mud. I would take speedgoats or peregrines. Or something from terrex line. Xodus ultra are also brilliant.

Fan of peregrine and even had those older model exodus (the tanks!) and liked them, but something didn’t click for me in the Xodus Ultra. Really wanted to love them. But I just always felt flat running in them, and failed to get a lockdown fit. Nowadays prefer shoes with a bit more flexibility too. Such an odd experience considering the rave reviews! Glad they worked out for someone though!

Fan of peregrine and even had those older model exodus (the tanks!) and liked them, but something didn’t click for me in the Xodus Ultra. Really wanted to love them. But I just always felt flat running in them, and failed to get a lockdown fit. Nowadays prefer shoes with a bit more flexibility too. Such an odd experience considering the rave reviews! Glad they worked out for someone though!

Agreed, I wouldn't take it more than 50k either. I ran a 86k trail ultra in May and was very happy that I used Saucony Xodus Ultras instead, even if the grip is much worse. I'm not the fastest though, others might be fine with it even for 100k. A modernized VJ Ultra 3 is coming for next year, Juuso Simpanen (VJ sponsored runner) already ran UTMB with a prototype version.

I have had a few trail running shoes. Xodus Ultra, Lone Peak, Terrex Agravic Speed, and now Speedgoats. They are all so different. Road shoes seem to be convalescing around some common principles related to uppers and midsoles, but trail shoes are still all over the place. I like a good heel counter in a trail shoe. Right now my favorites are my Speedgoat 5s. They were half the price of the Speedgoat 6 and they are really comfortable.

I am running the Puma Deviate Nitro 2 as my road shoe but they would certainly work on any trail that's not loose or muddy. The outsole is mostly rubberized and the grip is fantastic, the sole even has small lugs. I enjoyed the Xodus Ultra but the upper wore out quite quickly for me, big rips in the upper but plenty of mileage in the sole. Maybe less of an issue if you're not beating them up in ultras like I was.

Absolutely adored the OG-EUs. Also quite like this year's New Balance Hierros (I was a tester last summer).

Saucony xodus ultra does it for me. Based on the picture you shared, you are better off with Topo.

There are so many different trail shoes out there that I like to try different pairs when I get new ones, the problem with this is I don’t really know how they will be during longer races. They can feel great for 3-4 hours, but it’s hard to tell how my feet will feel after 8+ hours so I thought I would list the ones I have tried and see what you guys think. Saucony Endorphin Edge- My current “race” shoe. I got them on sale. I wore for shorter distances and they are fine, then I wore them for 2 different 50k and they gave me heel blisters both times. Saucony Peregrine 13- I like these, light, comfortable, but worried about how they would feel after 30+ miles. Saucony Xodus Ultra- I really liked these, but I had them when I wasn’t running as many miles. Also the 3’s have mixed reviews so that makes me nervous to try. Hoka Speedgoat 5- These felt just too chunky. They were comfortable, but just too big. Salomon Ultra Glide 2- These are just fine. I don’t like or hate them, just ok. Also I did a road 50 mile with Saucony Endorphin 3 Pro and my feet were fine, no problems at all. Also my feet are average/narrow so a wide toe box is not a big deal. I was thinking of trying the Nnormal Tomir 2 or Topo’s, but I don’t know anyone who has actually had these and if I’m just being hooked by the marketing, of course sponsored athletes will hype them up. Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance!

There are so many different trail shoes out there that I like to try different pairs when I get new ones, the problem with this is I don’t really know how they will be during longer races. They can feel great for 3-4 hours, but it’s hard to tell how my feet will feel after 8+ hours so I thought I would list the ones I have tried and see what you guys think. Saucony Endorphin Edge- My current “race” shoe. I got them on sale. I wore for shorter distances and they are fine, then I wore them for 2 different 50k and they gave me heel blisters both times. Saucony Peregrine 13- I like these, light, comfortable, but worried about how they would feel after 30+ miles. Saucony Xodus Ultra- I really liked these, but I had them when I wasn’t running as many miles. Also the 3’s have mixed reviews so that makes me nervous to try. Hoka Speedgoat 5- These felt just too chunky. They were comfortable, but just too big. Salomon Ultra Glide 2- These are just fine. I don’t like or hate them, just ok. Also I did a road 50 mile with Saucony Endorphin 3 Pro and my feet were fine, no problems at all. Also my feet are average/narrow so a wide toe box is not a big deal. I was thinking of trying the Nnormal Tomir 2 or Topo’s, but I don’t know anyone who has actually had these and if I’m just being hooked by the marketing, of course sponsored athletes will hype them up. Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance!

Maybe it is not the shoe. It sounds a bit like you may have the beginnings of plantar fasciitis. Have you gone to a running store or foot specialist to talk with them about what you are feeling and what they recommend? How much are you stretching your calves, IT band and feet? I have used trail runners for about 5 years. I started having plantar fasciitis problems after about 1 1/2 years. For me the low drop/zero drop shoes aggravated it but did not cause it. A specialist recommended stretching my calves/Achilles and it did work although it takes some time for that type of injury to heal. Now I am using Saucony Xodus Ultra and typically hike 30 to 50 miles per week with at least one hike of around 17 miles and 3,500 -4,000 feet of ascent/descent without problems.

Have a look at the Sauce xodus ultra, new Salomon genesis (not the s/lab version), Salomon ultra glide and the NB fuel cell trail shoe (Supercomp trail) . I have all those and have been quite happy with them

So you like a thick stack. I’d recommend a store for options. But keep in mind that the higher the stack on most trail means you have more give and more give in the ankle to roll. Technical terrain and high stack heights aren’t a great combo for most people. HOKA Speedgoat are a good option that sounds like it fits. But they also have no rock plate if you want that protection. Edit: I have ran Peregrine 13’s and really like them. Longest has been up to 18 miles and good amount of technical terrain. Xodus Ultra are a good option. I have the Xodus Ultra 3 but not going to wear them. The stack is just too high for me so going to offload them. Endorphin Rift might be an option for you as well.

I've had both. The Exodus Ultras have more cushion. They are now my favorite trail shoe. Peregrines are good too.

I used to run in the regular Xodus because it was built like a tank and could handle my local trails. But then I tried the ultra and was blown away. I loved the lighter weight with good cushioning. Completed my first 50km with more than 3000m elevation gain in them!

I used to run in the regular Xodus because it was built like a tank and could handle my local trails. But then I tried the ultra and was blown away. I loved the lighter weight with good cushioning. Completed my first 50km with more than 3000m elevation gain in them!

I have switched from the SpeedGoats to the Xodus Ultra and couldn’t be happier. More generous toe box, great cushioning and haven’t had the durability issues (tor delaminating, etc.) I experienced with the Hokas. Frankly, I think Saucony is the most underrated running shoe brand out there.

Saucony Xodus Ultra 1/2 has been my favorite. I ran (roads, gravel), hiked and walked for 100s of miles without any problems.

I bought 4 pairs at < $30/ea when DSW was doing their sale 18mo ago as well as two more pairs (one with Runshield) earlier at slightly higher prices. Fantastic shoes and I look forward to another year or two of running in them, but I'm hopeful for the Xodus Ultra 4 since it has a Vibram outsole that will hopefully solve my one issue with Saucony trail shoes which is grip on wet rock.

Interesting. I'd agree their grip is not as good as Vibram, etc., but I run in the PNW which has all those in spades and the only place I've really seen issues is wet rock. Especially creek crossings.

Summers are generally dry most years so no issue there. There's also a ton of different types of rock and only a few have given me issues when wet.

I ran on a trail today that has a section that is all golfball size rounded river rocks stuck into the ground. It's practically like running in place with my Saucony shoes, but to be honest I'm not sure it'd be that great even with Vibram.

Yea, I've never had an issue with the Saucony's on those wet bridges which is a little surprising. That said, I definitely run them very easy because they truly can turn into the slickest surface imaginable.

Pros: Easy to find last years models for very reasonable prices, at least in the US (Amazon, Sierra, etc.), nice toe box, lots of colors, fairly decent all around trail shoe. Cons: The already mentioned issue with the heal cracking. Lots and lots of reports of this, especially on rocky trails. Saucony outsole grip is good, but not as good as Vibram outsoles in certain conditions (wet rock especially). Somewhat mediocre cushioning compared to more cushioned models. I have a pair of Peregrine 11's that I've relegated to hiking because they're just too damn firm for the distances I run on firm trails. On softer trails they're not as bad, but I'd still prefer something else. I don't think there have been any significant changes in the last few models, so just get whatever is most compelling price wise between the 12's and 13's if you decide to buy them. Personally I prefer the Xodus Ultra which resolved all the issues outlined above other than the outsole.

I switched from Speedgoats to Xodus Ultras a couple years ago and haven't looked back. No issue with Speedgoats, they just never seem to go on sale and I was able to find Xodus Ultras on clearance for around $50 (so now I have a closet full of them). Plus, Saucony's customer service was super on point when a pair of Peregrines I had went to shit less than 200 miles in.

Saucony Xodus Ultra (three pairs in rotation with another three brand new pairs in the closet ready to sub in)

I usually buy whichever one is cheapest. You can still get 11’s for like $65. I’m good with them until about 12 miles then my feet hurt. I have the xodus ultra as well and they are much better for fatigue, but you sacrifice ground feel and I won’t use them on trails with a lot of exposed roots. I think the peregrines are pretty good for the money my only complaint is they take forever to dry out.

Cascadias if you must stay with Brooks. I prefer Sauconys for the trails - either Peregrine or the Xodus Ultras

To the Saucony Xodus Ultra! Each pair has over 500 miles of trail and they still feel great. Oh, and a definite runner-up shout out to the Mad Rivers in the back. I wish Saucony brought those back. Moving on to the Xodus 2's, which so far seem just as good.

Saucony Xodus Ultra are great

Saucony Xodus Ultra is decent. Plenty cushioning for the road sections that I’ve found them to feel ok.

Echoing a lot of the other comments, go for the Xodus Ultras instead. Such a great shoe. I considered the peregrines but they felt much stiffer and less comfortable particularly on the upper and heel area for me so I didn’t get them. The XUs are dreamy comfy.

I've enjoyed my Saucony Xodus Ultra, and am yet to slip on my arse in mud. Terrible on rock though!

I was using the older version of the Xodus and, honestly, don't really love the new Xodus Ultra 1/2. The Zegama is lighter but less bouncy. It's also more stable than the Xodus.

Salomon Genesis work as good road to trails, deal with mud well and i've used up to marathon with no issues as they're well cushioned. Saucony ultra or peregrines - ultras are more cushioned and great road to trail but peregrines are find for short road sections and have a slightly deeper lug and deal with mud and wet grass really well. Peregrines are also my choice of mountain shoe so work well, did a 100k in them and only had some foot pain from minimal cushioning at 50ish miles in! Just got the Nike Zegama 2 and they are fab so far! Managed well in mud, snow, slush and are really cushioned. Need to try them out on more technical terrain but all good so far. They have the react foam so they give a lot of bounce on packed trail and road. Inov8 trailfly i find good on rock and grass, less so on mud, and a bit firm on road, but not terrible.

An unreal shoe IMO. They were being sold really cheaply a year or so ago, really regret not buying their entire stock.

Saucony Xodus Ultras are excellent. Have run with a few pairs of the series 1 & 2's. Currently running in the series 3 and really digging them.

Love my many Peregrines, but I would not pay full price. 12s fray, and 13s split. Exodus Ultra are narrower than the Peregrine but far more durable, watch them ankles.

Second the xodus ultras. Has a more generous toe box I find as well. They worked well for me in all conditions (Canyons conditions with dustier looser stuff to Squamish 50 conditions with steep rocks and roots, rain or not).

I’ve used whatever my current rotation trail shoe is on any and all hikes - Scottish munroes in full winter conditions with YakTrax spikes over the outsole, to running down snowdon in summer. Hoka speedgoats are good (latest iteration seems to have divided opinion), Salomon Sense Ride 5 for more technical stuff (find them super grippy), Saucony Xodus Ultra for longer stuff (nice cushion). Haven’t tried the NB’s you linked but I’m sure they’ll be fine! 👍

I think the shoe I’m looking for is basically an Endorphin Speed with a wide toebox, a trail outsole, and lugs. It may not work for extremely technical trails but it would feel amazing underfoot for almost everything else. The closest I’ve seen in trail shoes is the Saucony Xodus Ultra, which has a combination of EVA and PEBA but no flexible plate and a standard toebox. I managed to do R2R2R in these without ever really thinking about my feet (for whatever that n=1 is worth.)

I run in similar trail conditions(dirt/sand, gravel/rock, leaves, roots, streams, and mud), but I generally run shorter easy runs for fun on trails(2-6 miles, about 300ft elevation change per 3 miles). Here's what I learned. Road concept of cushion and resilience doesn't translate too well on my trail. Road has hard surface for the foam to bounce off of, but trail has it's own soft surface to absorb impact. Think bouncing basketball on the street vs on a hiking path. The ball won't bounce well and it'll bounce unpredictably on the trail. The unpredictable bounce from the resilience and leverage from tall stack height caused ankle pain and ankle twisting on every run. After much ankle pain and twisting from high stack trail shoes(Xodus Ultra), I decided to go with low stack from here forward. Rock plate protects your feet from feeling all the rocks and roots. Not having a rock plate was verging on painful and I had to slow down on certain sections to prevent pain. So this is a requirement for me at the moment, especially because I'm going lower stack(high stack foam might be able to protect the feet without rock plate). Tall lugs are great for gripping on to gravel, mud, and roots, but they aren't great dealing with wet boulders. I just have one stream crossing with boulders on my trail acting as a bridge, and I carefully walk through that section when the boulders are wet. I feel comfortable running over the boulders when dry though. Gore-tex paradox. I had a waterproof shoes before, but I switched over to non-waterproof from others' suggestions. I was told that with waterproof shoes, once the water gets in through the top the feet will stay wet. Because the biggest water concern is the stream crossing, and when I fall in I'll be shin deep in water, I opted away from waterproof. I have fallen in the stream with non-waterproof shoes and water escaped pretty quickly. I wasn't dry at the end of the run, but I wasn't uncomfortable from the water neither. I been using the higher stack(not really from road perspective) Xodus Ultra for hiking and that's been going great, but I no longer use it for trail running. I have gotten the Inov8 MudTalon Speed, and this shoe has been working very well for me. I was concerned about such a low stack since I usually run in NB More or Asics Nimbus on the road, but the trail absorbs the impact and I been feeling better in these than I had with the Xodus Ultra.

Question, did you feel springy energy return from the "super shoes"? I noticed that the loose and soft dirt trails I run on tends to absorb most of the impact and the energy return at the same time. So the tall stack wasn't necessary for cushion and it didn't provide any meaningful energy return neither for me. In fact I'd forget the shoes have any energy return until I reach the parking lot and I get the bounce once on the paved road there. On the rooty, rocky, and generally more technical part of the trail, I was getting the ankle twisting with the tall stack Xodus Ultra. I switched over to low stack Inov8 Mudtalon Speed because of that issue. I only have one run on Inov8 so far, but that one run felt like night and day difference in terms of stability. No ankle issue or pain at all. I think Xodus Ultra would have worked for flatter and more compacted trail, but for my more technical trail it was not ideal.

I picked up some Gel Trabucos here recently and love them. Other shoes I have been wearing are xodus ultras, mtn racers and brooks catamount. Fit wise I love them, they feel stable and enough cushion while not being clunky like my catamounts.

Wha! Megagrip on Xodus? I gotta get some duck tape to make my current pair last til June now.

I highly recommend going to a specialist running shop that offers fitting services such as gait analysis. They will help you with getting the right fit for you. Adidas shoes tend to be on the narrow side, so worth having a look at brands that have a wider last(mould) like Brooks or Saucony. If the only run that’s on the trail and in the mud is your Saturday Parkrun and the rest of your runs are on road, you can consider road to trail shoe such as the Saucony xodus or the Altra Olympus. They has smaller lugs (the grip blocks on the bottom) but are harder wearing and more cushioned for running on roads.

There isn’t a shoe that will work well in fells and road. You’ll have to sacrifice one or the other. There’s unfortunately no shoe that does it all. NVII Terra TT, VJ Xtrm have a bit nicer protection than Inov8s while being a proper hill shoe with superb grip. Various Scott Supertrac versions have more cushioning but they often have a very “dead” feeling on the road. Saucony Peregrine ST are very decent in mud but not so good on the rock and feel a bit burly. More than decent on the road as far as shoes go. Hoka Mafate/Tecton are great on more groomed trails but wouldn’t be my choice for most hill races in Scotland. Ditto on Saucony Xodus.

I haven’t tried the ultrafly, but hear good things about it. Unfortunately, cost is a factor for me. My go-to long distance shoe has been the Saucony Xodus. I’ve liked a few iterations. The Edge is a fun racer.

My feet swim in the Altras. Sloppy running is the perfect word. I liked my Soloman’s but the lugs felt too aggressive on west coast packed dirt. Hokas are comfy but the stack feels unstable. Enter Saucony Xodus. Plenty of cushion but a much more stable feel. Fits my foot well but nice room in the toe box (fit reminds me of saloman )

I scramble all summer on gabbro in a pair of Peregrines or Xodus' and they do *not* look like yours, even though the lugs and rockplate windows look similar; they have a few cuts in the lugs but nothing as bad as those you have. Either the rubber on your outsole is a different compound to my shoes or you have a lemon, IMO. Saucony rubber is a bit shit but that looks wrong, even for Saucony.

The Saucony Xodus has a pretty high stack, and the PWRRUN PB is definitely a super foam. Version 4 is set to release in a couple of months with significant upgrades over the previous model—most notably, a Vibram outsole ([Saucony Xodus Ultra 4 First Look](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klJoS7fwkJk)) Personally, I’m planning to grab a pair as soon as they drop and use them for all my summer 25 races. My Merrell Agility Peak 5s from last summer have flattened out, so it’s time for an upgrade!