Spark

Here’s my contribution. I haven’t done controlled tests like you did, but I run a lot of rocky vertical terrain and have put lots of miles in all these shoes. Trying to focus here on wet rock grip from the outsole and ignore other shoe attributes (fit, lock down, flexibility/stiffness, weight, cushion, etc) that also come into play with their overall ability to do the job on wet rock 5: VJ Maxx 1&2 VJ Spark Arcteryx Norvan VT (limited mileage) 4. Arcteryx Norvan SL 1, 2, &3 Salomon s/Lab Sense 7&8 Nnormal Kjeraq 3. La Sportiva Helios SR La Sportiva Vertical K & VK INOV-8 F-Lite 195 2. Whole bunch of older inov-8 x-talon and RocLite models NB minimus Salomon s/lab ultra 3 Salomon s/lab sense 7SG 1. Old Nike Terra kiger Salomon s/lab sense 1, 2, 3 For spiked shoes, I actually think they suffer quite a bit on rock because they don’t stick instantly like pure rubber soles. 4. VJ Devil 4 3. VJ bold race, VJ ice hero, INOV-8 ORoc 280

My go to for this is the Arcteryx Norvan SL3. They might be discontinued though. I recently picked up a clearance pair of Merrel Skyfire 2 Matryx that see very very promising. Never owned a merrel shoe before, but excited for these this year. Wouldn’t be my first choice for pure rocky trails given the lack of surface area in the lugs. Another similar shoe is the Nnormal Kjerag. I don’t love the fit. Seem a little too sloppy in the upper midfoot for my taste on really technical terrain, but everyone’s feet are different. Common theme among those - lightweight, matryx upper, megagrip sole. I find that to be a good recipe. You could also check out VJ Spark. I put a few hundred miles on a pair, but honestly I wish they had more rock protection and a less bulky upper. VJ Maxx2 is a great all around shoe. It’s not heavy, but not super light either.

Oh I use “shoe rotation” as a regular excuse to buy more shoes, but in the real world I have: - shoe for trails and ultras (Salomon Genesis currently) - shoe for technical and short trails (Hoka Zinal 2) - shoe for gravel / road to trail (Hoka Tecton X) - shoe for deep or thick mud (Inov8 X-Talon Ultra) - shoe for OCR racing (VJ Spark)

Okay, so based on how you describe these issues, i think you have a pretty narrow foot, but i'm confused by the fact that you like the Hierro - this is pretty wide fitting and "plush" cushioned. SO maybe i have that wrong. But the best fitting shoes in the industry come from VJ. They have an amazing fitlock system which is peak stability. They have brilliant outsole rubber for technical trails, roots and wet rocks. They are epic for OCRs and orienteering. However, the midsole is usually a bit firm and numb, so they're not fit for road-to-trail. I've run in Ultra3 and Sparks, and if you're a lighter, smaller runner they will probably be fine. Alternatively, look at Salomon - the S/Lab Speed, Ultra, Genesis, etc are all narrow but have great lockdown. You have to persist with the lace system - sometimes you have to play with the lockdown 2-3 times before it all sits right, but I've loved running in the CDW Genesis for the last year.

Trail: \- Hoka Tecton X 3 \- Salomon S/Lab Genesis CDW \- Hoka Mafate 5 \- VJ Spark (for OCRs) \- Inov8 X-Ultra for fells/mud Road: \- Hoka Skyward recovery \- Saucony Tempus 2 daily \- Hoka Mach X 2 tempo \- Hoka Cielo X 1 race

A group I run with had several people recommend the Speedgoat to me when I first got into trail running. To me they look more like a hiking boot than a running shoe. I ended up with a pair of VJ Sparks and absolutely love them.  

Saucony Peregrine 15 has drainage holes in the outsole Inov8 mudtalon speed also drains well but you may not be interested in shoes designed specifically for mud VJ shoes are popular in OCR so they must have proper drainage. I have VJ Sparks and I have no drainage issues with them except that I once noticed that sand stays inside after the water has drained. But I did an OCR race with approx 10 full submersions last week and didn't have that issue at all.

Lol, they're narrow especially in the middle. But the fitlock system is excellent and might give a glove like fit. Definitely go at least a half size up. I normally wear 11 or 11½ but my Sparks are nicely tight at 12.

I bought this pair almost exactly a year ago and used them on average 2 times per week for obstacle running (OC trainings and races. I logged 533 km / 333 miles in them, which at 5-9 kilometers per 1.5 hrs of training means 114 hours of intense use. Specifically the right shoe was extensively abused because I did loads of rope climbing where you wrap ropes around the right foot and lock it by pressing the left foot on top thereby clamping the rope in a loop. The wear & tear that has caused is the main reason for retirement. For reference: my previous Salomon Speedcross only got to 380 Kms / 238 miles before the right shoe's upper got destroyed. Likes: * VJ fitlock system: hugs the foot and feels great from the first minute you put this shoe on. This is the only shoe where I use a heel lock by the way. * VJ butyl rubber outsole: grip for days and still it doesn't wear too fast. As you can see in the picture, the lugs under the ball of my foot are pretty much gone but that is my fault for running too much on paved surfaces * Lightweight and flexible: great ground feel and agility. Together with the fitlock and outsole it gives 100% confidence to attack trails and run fast when there are challenging sections like tree roots * Narrow and minimal feeling helps with attacking obstacles and placing feet in nets and tight spaces: bulky shoes with a wide profile and high stack don't give that nice direct feeling when climbing obstacles. The narrowness could be an issue for people that have wide feet, my feet are narrow to neutral and I can run in almost any shoe without issues. * Durable construction and upper: the upper is approx. 50% more durable than Salomon Speedcross, with which I even did less rope climbing * Drains OK * Breathes well Dislikes: * The toebox of the right shoe probably had some manufacturing inconsistency which caused a tear in the upper at the big toe nail location within 3 weeks. I placed a special patch to close the hole and kept using the first pair for training because I got a new pair for free from VJ under warranty! I saved that fresh pair for races. * The midsole is old fashioned, dense and uninspiring so running on paved surfaces is not much fun but it is doable if you can appreciate the minimalist feel * The tongue is sort of gusseted by means of strange thin rubber bands inside the shoe that damages easily when putting them on * On some surfaces, mud tended to stick to the outsole and shedding could be improved, but I have no direct comparison with other shoes on that same terrain Conclusion: the likes far outweigh the dislikes for me and I really enjoyed the Sparks a lot. They do have a specific use case: I wouldn't recommend them for long distances unless you're interested in a semi-minimalist shoe that gives superb grip. I also would recommend against using them as a road-to-trail shoe. For OCR and for faster, short to medium distance on challenging terrain, these are great.

I already got a new pair of Lightspeed for a very good price (: those are supposedly similar to the Maxx2

Funny to see multiple adidas shoes listed here, they don't get mentioned a lot in this sub. My rotation: * VJ Lightspeed: OCR training (interval based so the running sections are faster) * VJ Spark: OCR races (continuous slower pace) * Inov8 parkclaw g280: road to trail runs, I only have non-technical trails where I live, those only require mild trail shoes in autumn and winter (eyeing to replace this with Salomon Aeto Blaze GRVL or other mild trail shoes) " New Balance More V4: road runs and summer trails * New Balance Hierro V6: retired, now used for hiking

VJ has a very nice mid foot lockdown. Try various models, you've listed the maxx already but that is a big step up in stack coming from barefoot shoes so you might want to check other models from their product range. I'm very happy with the VJ Spark which is more minimal than the maxx but I only use them for short distances.

I'm not sure if they're any similar, but I graduated from peregrines to VJ spark shoes

+1 for VJsports. I have a pair with spikes that I keep boxed up to come out on the odd icy / snowy run. When they do come out, they’re great. Would recommend non spiky ones for the mud also, they do some good shoes.