Multiple Brands (Turin, MiiCoffee, DF etc) - DF64 Series

I use a Df64v for espresso and an 1zpresso for pour over. Grinding with an electric grinder for espresso is much easier than using a hand grinder. Hand grinding for espresso is a workout. But if you don't mind that, go for the k-ultra as it can do espresso, pour over and other brewing methods. Or you can just go for the Df64v as it's a very capable electric grinder.

For your budget...Undisputedly Df64v2

Yeh honestly surprised lol. Fantastic grinder for a fantastic price. It's always been raved about too in this sub. It's almost like I'm in some weird twilight zone.

Had a $200 JMAX then upgraded to DF64V.   I do think the quality of espresso is the about the same. Obviously there’s different flavor profiles between flat and conical, but consistency and adjustability of the two grinders are about the same.   End of the day, you’ll likely end up getting an electric grinder down the road. If you can stretch your budget, just get a good electric grinder to start.

Ah I see. The major pro I’ll give to JMAX is the adjustability is way more granular and precise. Often I feel the df64v has such a narrow adjustment range for espresso.

The DF64 is loud but the DF54 is pretty quiet and tastes the same. X54 isn't a single doser so you have to decide if you want a hopper or not.

Df64 is great for anything

Get an electric grinder for espresso 100 % DF54 or Df64 are absolutely fantastic for the money

Unless there's something you specifically want from a £3000 grinder, just get a df64V It'll keep you happy for a while and gives you time to decide what you might want from a very expensive grinder.

I had similar requirements, I wanted something for Espresso (Breville Barista Pro), French Press (double wall) and pour-over Hario v60 Switch. I differ from. you, I am space-restricted (small workbench) and wanted something less noisy (df64v is brushless) and my budget was between $500 to $1500. I ended up buying two DF64V.. 1) DLC stock burr (bimodal) 2) SSP MP burr (unimodal) I have been experimenting the same beans with different burrs and brewing methods. I am still fairly new to coffee but what I learned is that each burr type(flat, conical), burr design(bi-modal, unimodal) grinding method(RDT, slow feeding beans grind size) brewing method(espresso, pour over, french press), brewing technique(espresso: shaking, WDT, tamping, pre-infusion, mesh/paper, temp/water and for pourover: temp/water, blooming, circular, center, pour height, agitation, 4:6, 2 pours, etc...) combined with the bean origin(nutty, fruity, earthy), wash process (washed, natural, honey, fermented, etc...) bean density, roasting level and others variables can all contribute to the overall flavor. Some have a bigger impact and have a lesser impact.... If you want to experiment, a 64mm machines will potentially have more burr choices easily available at less expensive price compared to bigger sizes. (e.g.64mm SSP HU, SSP MP, LS v2, LS v3, ode SS $80 USD, Turin stock DLC 64mm, etc...) Some burrs might not generate enough fines for espresso. I recommend the same two burrs types (Turin 64mm DLC and SSP MP 64mm Red Speed) because they create different distinguishable flavor profiles. I also recommend DF64V for its small size, small counterspace footprint, not too noisy (brushless but makes noise when grinding) and optional variable speed (I've not yet tested low vs high speed). It stalled 2 times in 6 months grinding 2-3 times per day (light-medium and medium roast) Changing, aligning and cleaning the Flat Burrs is very easy with the DF64V. We don't yet know the long term longevity and consistent quality. (I bought from df64coffee.com with excellent service and shipping time) Lastly, my last comment is purely my personal opinion and the community will likely disagree but I feel like the big brand names don't innovate enough for home usage in terms of value for the price.

DF64V with ssp mp if you like clarity. I am able to pull 1:2 espresso too with decent body.

I'm a tu ally considering this. I had a fellow ode gen 2, then got a df64v with ssp MP, then timemore 078 (sold it), then added the oden gen2 burrs to the df64v and I'm happy with it. I am considering getting the pietro just because it is so much praised here and it seems to be close to the EK43. But I'm a bit worried about hand grinidjng being annoying and me not using it too much.

2 Electric: DF83v (currently aligned espresso dlc burrs) & DF64v SSP MP 4 manual: Zp6 C40 red clix M47 pre-fire universal burrs Normcore with ghost burrs I used to use DF83v with dlc brew burrs for filter (imo they are better than ssp mp for pourover but worse than ek43), but use these two electric grinders for espresso to have brighter or more balanced cups. And also because I usually use two different beans in my rotation for espresso at the same time. I also switched from using 83mm flat brew burrs for pourover to handgrinders. I usually use the ghost burrs 80% of the time and the rest 20% I use zp6. I rarely use C40 & m47 for any brews nowadays

I've had mine for \~ 2 months now, my first flat burr grinder and my first "quality" home espresso setup (GCP Evo Pro). I've been very happy with it, but so far I've only been grinding medium roast espresso. No clogs and only intermittent mild static issues. I do clean it about once a week and most of the time I do RDT. In one of the first times I really noticed static, all of the grounds were sticking to the side of the chute. I cleaned it and haven't experienced this big of an issue with static since. I personally think that all grinders must experience static at times dependent on the environment?! Regarding retention, I was measuring weight after grinding and it was typically .1 gram, sometimes .2grams. Isn't that pretty good? Regarding zero point, I know my actual is like -4. Yea, a little annoying but I just do the "math" if I'm looking at what others are using for a certain roast if they have there zero point dialed, but it all varies a bit anyways. I saw the USA distributor has a vid where they take off the sticker and re-position it. Mine is off by so little I didn't bother and I'm not really going by others and their settings so pointless to me. I almost bought a DF64 gen 2 but it seems I see many complaints on the 'net about that model as well so what to believe?! Maybe when I Gaggiuino my machine I'll upgrade the grinder, but so far, it's been a great purchase and I'm quite happy.

Tbh, probably, but is the difference in price worth it? Probably not at my level of the hobby right now.

I bought the DF64 V2 a couple of months ago, I don't remember what the reviews said, but I love it, especially the single dosing capability

I'm obviously talking from personal experience only, but I haven't had any problems with the DF64 V2 being messy at all, maybe it has to do with the humidity in Germany. It's also not all that noisy for me. I think if you want to really find a perfect grinder you're going to have to drop serious money, I ended up just aiming for what was most important for me and I can't even remember what cons I had in mind for my grinder in the first place

**DF64V** with a variable RPM is also a good and cost-effective option.

For manual brews like V60, I'd suggest to start with **Timemore S3** (not C3) or **Kingrinder K6** hand grinders. You can get both for less than USD 90 on AliExpress - check the front page coupons during frequent sales. Start from there, experiment, learn, and over some time, as you learn more, if you will ever need something else, you will also know what for and what piece of equipment it is likely to be. The two grinders above are already quite good. As an electric grinder, mainly for espresso, but possibly a backup for manual brew as well (or, if you just don't feel like hand-grinding :) the DF64V could be a good start. Its almost as small as DF54, but with 64 mm flat burrs (many options on the market), a more premium build AND a variable RPM. You could grind on lower RPM for manual brews, and higher RPM for espresso. Or, you could swap to the brew-oriented 64 mm burrs some day, such as SSP UMv1-SK, if you ever find out that you actually prefer V60 over espresso (many people do). But you could also get an electric grinder for espresso at much later time, when you will know more about coffee and will be choosing an espresso machine as well. No need to rush that purchase, as you might be better equipped to make that decision later.

I'd say this too.  Also ssp 64mms compatible if OP wants to go that way.  The DLC stock is great though.

Rpm absolutely changes the end result. Whether it's positive depends on how much you want to tinker. For pour overs, I might want to speed up my brew time and one way to do that is to lower the rpm if I'm close to the coarsest setting.

I have DF64v. I pretty much only use it for espresso, because I don’t like the brews I get with it. I would get a zp6 and then save more for df or something more down the line. I used a zp6 for about 1.5 years and now have an 078 and really like both of them. I wouldn’t get a DF64v as is and expect great pourovers. It does make fairly decent espresso, that maybe isn’t super dynamic, but it will certainly taste like any given coffee should. I do feel like even at low rpm, slow feed, rdt etc. that my brews stalled a lot more, were a bit flat, and lacked any clarity and acidity. Some safe advice is that an “all rounder” is not going to be great at either, even if good enough at one or both. I’m definitely glad that I saved and got a one for both.

I’ve had a ton of grinders and I’d think for that budget I’d have to recommended the DF64v. It’s a fantastic little grinder for espresso and filter. The build quality is nice and my units alignment was spot on out of the box. The stock dlc burrs too once seasoned are really great.

I have a DF64v and I assure you it serves no purpose. You set it to some option and never change it ever again

Not to the point I actually care about it. It was supposed to be better tasting at lower RPM due to less fines and more uniform output, if anything it ended up being better somewhere in the middle. If it wasn’t placebo effect in the first place. Dialing in lighter beans is enough of a pain in the butt I am not going to add another variable into it, same with slow feeding, blind shakers and all the other recently popularized gimmicks.

I use my DF64 for espresso, French press and pour over with good results.

For hand grinders: - 1zpresso any of their line ups are good - timemore c2 - commandante grinders After that it just gets exponentially expensive Electric Grinders - fellow ode or opus - df64 - baratza encore - varia - lagom p64 or mini - mahlkonigs -sk40 Just look for burr grinders either conical or flat burrs would do. Depending on the shape, geometry if blades, and type, they can affect the flavor profile of the brews. You can deep dive on this whenever. But you would want a burr grinder than a blade one any day as it cuts the beans better and more consistently than the latter. I guess if you are not that invested or just want a cup of hot joe you can go ahead with that as it is better than buying pre ground

I have a DF64; I do RDT, grind, brush while grinder is running. Virtually zero retention. RDT may offer more benefits than other anti-static technology. I hit the bellows but nothing really comes out with this process. I do about 4 sprays/0.2g of RDT for an 18-20g dose. Out of curiosity, how much RDT are you doing that you feel it is a lot? I think at first 4-5 sprays seemed like a lot to me, but with zero issues over a year later and worse results if I use more or less water, it's really just "the right amount" for me, my grinder, my environment, my workflow.

Been looking around and was wondering what people thought was the best true zero (or close to it) retention grinder. Currently have a DF64V with SSP MPs but i absolutely hate having to do tons of RDT and bang on the bellow to get everything out. Irrespective of budget, what would you recommend? Im looking for something I can put coffee in (ideally no RDT but some is fine) and have it all come out in one go without bellows. Anti static tech is a plus but not a must edit: pour over only for this as i’ve actually done espresso and can no longer drink it due to health reasons

i actually had HU’s originally just swapped them out for MPs. i guess after bellows it’s not much retention but i’d rather not have to use them

If you don't mind manually grinding, **Kingrinder K6** or **Timemore C3**, both can grind for pourover/filter and espresso fine. They're the best value for money, considering you won't need to replace them at all in the next 5 years as opposed to grinders in the ₱1k range you would probably need to replace in the next 3 months. If you want auto, DF54 or DF64. If you can afford it then go straight to DF64 because its stock burrs work better for both pourover+esp compared to DF54 which you may have to replace with aftermarket burrs to work with pourover. Also you need to slow feed. Overall I recommend Kingrinder K6, best value more than Timemore because you can adjust the setting outside—amazing quality of life feature.

At least do enough research to decide between your preferences for conical vs. flat burrs. Niches (both zero and duo) along with the rest of the conical burrs make more fines in their particle size distributions. That gives more body but may make the espresso more “muddy”. Flat burr grinders like DF64/83, Timemore 64/78, Zerno Z1, Acacia Orbit, Lagom Option-O, and of course the Weber EG-1 (roughly in order of increasing price) will yield fewer fines and a thinner cup but with more clarity. Generally people who like lighter roasts tend to like flat burrs. People who like medium and darker may either not have a preference or even prefer the body you get from conical.

Don’t skimp on the grinder, either df54 or df64. Marami nagsasabi parehas flavor profile nila. Major difference is yung speed. Then yung natitira is for your machine and accessories.

For espresso, konti nlng DF64 na. Otherwise you can try DF54.

get a df64 version 2 with the standard burr (if u just want to use it for spro )

Hi there, usually you get more bang for the buck with hand grinders. With electric grinders you need more parts (motor, PCB, etc.) This all adds up to the cost. For sure there are exceptions in the second hand market where you can also get good electric grinders for a tight budget. For me it's a quality of life question. Ask yourself how many cups do you want to drink every day? How many persons are served? If it's just for you and you are drinking 2 shots a day hand grinders are perfect. When your family or friends also what to have a coffee it's some serious work to be done. I started with an 1zpresso JX Pro and got some really good shot from it. In the beginning everything was like an adventure. I like grinding my beans by hand. It feels more crafty in a way. I just explored different beans and different drinks. I mostly used it at the weekend. But over time I started drinking during the week. Friends came by and wanted Cappuccini. Then got lazy and bought a DF64. Now it's just a click of a button to get my beans ready. No matter how many guests to serve. I just start sweating if I'm out of beans. What I like about manual grinders is the lower retention. Most electronic grinders have a lot of retention. If you change beans often you should keep this in mind. For hand grinders usual recommendations are Kingrinder K6 (100€) 1ZPresso JX-Pro (185€) Comandante C40 MK4 (250€) Cheapest recommend electric grinders: Baratza Sette 270 (350€) DF64 (420€) DF64 V2 (480€) DF 54 (250€)

My J-max is a great conical grinder. It doesn't do the thing that my DF64 with SSPs does though.

First of all, flat burrs won't just cure fines. I have a Pietro and even with the huge sweet spot it has there have been beans where I have just decided not to do v60 but AP because with the v60 it would music stall too much no matter on how little agitation I caused. Just 1 bean out of a lot more, but just something to consider. Next thing to consider is that both stock burrsets just won't be great for clarity in pour over. Any test for the two grinders you mentioned mentions these drawbacks. But at least the df64 you can order with ssp mp pre installed, which tbh sounds like what you want. From what I heard about them and considering you have a lever machine you should be able to pull great shots and they will give you the highest clarity pour over. These will also be the ones that differ most from your current grinders so IMHO the ones that give you the biggest gain over your existing grinders. Obviously the 64 has the higher amount of after market burrs and what I have seen from tests makes it easier to swap them out. It is overall at this point a very mature product that does come with some caveats which should be attributed to the price point though. From what you describe - a high clarity end game grinder with a lot of features - you could consider going up to the 1000 range and getting a zerno z1 or a mazzer philos. Both have a good auger feeding/pre breaking mechanism and come with good stock burrs. Given what we know so far about variable speed it mostly affects feed rate and doesn't have much of an influence on grinders with good augers. So I think these will give you a very good build quality, noise level and feature set and be basically the "entry level endgame" grinders you can get(bigger burrs can probs be more endgame but the only ones that have bigger ones at a lower/comparable price point come with other caveats)

You should go for DF64 gen 2. That’s the entry point of authentic electric grinder. All are waste under the range if you want perfection. And if you can’t bring up the budget then atleast go for baratza encore esp. Also you can buy manual grinder like Hario (Perfection in your budget).

I have a DF64ii, a Philos, a Gevi, and an Ode 2 for electric grinders. I've brought the DF64ii into work. At home, for pourovers, I almost always use the ZP6 hand grinder.

Df54 for electric. I would also suggest looking at a premium hand grinder. I have a df64, but also love and frequently use my 1zpresso hand grinder. The effort required (for pourover) is barely noticeable, and quite enjoyable

I can’t stand the DF64 high pitch noise either. Decent grinder but shrill as hell. Take a look at the Niche Zero if you are ok with conical burrs. It’s worked wonders for me since I like darker, fuller body drinks. If not, the Oro or Specialita might be good options. Good luck.

Definitely don't remove 20% off grinders life cycle from seasoning. Never heard of something like that with any grinder out there. Depends on the burrs more than anything. DF54 and DF64 grinders, never had a single motor go bad that I can remember and we have sold a lot of them. So far very good motors. I have one that has ground probably thousands of lbs and hasn't had an issue.

Encore is good, its design is dated, and its a bit lousy to use. But its still a solid entry to grinding for Espresso. I've heard decent things about the DF64, but personally, at that stage, I'd get something from Fellow, looks a lot cleaner, something like the Fellow Opus.

Its cooler looking :) But that aside, its more of a cost thing. The opus is a lot cheaper, and grinds above its price class. Being cheaper means, you feel less bad about modding it. The DF64 has its own set of issues, like retention, static etc. While both of them are really good options, I've always had a thing for how Fellow designs their stuff, everything from their mugs, to their kettles, to their grinders are designed beautifully, and I've a softspot for that. Edit : Also would like to add, one of the things I like to focus on is the user experience, for example a Niche, or a Fellow Ode is a pleasure to use, even if the results are not as precise as the DF64, because making coffee is meant to be as good of an experience as consuming coffee. That's why the review also, we all know that a C2 will give you the absolute best results in terms of price to grind quality ratio, but a cheap electric grinder can make the experience a lot more pleasurable, And that's something I take into account.

df64 gen2 . i have the same set up :). you'll love it. i got mine with ssp hu burrs. dm if you wanna chat

I am one of those people who went down the rabbit hole and got a Lagom P64 + unimodal v1 burrs. I will first say that it is amazing — the build, team support, everything. Could I get something close to that much cheaper? Probably. My brother has the DF64 with unimodal burrs and, while the polish is not there, it can probably do close to what my Lagom does. As long as you pick a grinder that 1) is generally reliable, 2) has okay customer support, and 3) lets you swap out burrs, that is pretty great! I've had many cafe filter brews from the Ode that impressed me. Your main limitation will probably be grind adjustment — depending on how "unimodally" your burrs are, 5-10 microns makes a huuuge difference because the sweet spot window is much narrower. Soooo Ode is great, but at that price point you should also consider DF64!

Just a sample size of one, but I have a JX-Pro, ZP6, and DF64 Gen 2 with both DLC burrs and SSP Lab Sweet V3 burrs. The hand grinders are better IMO for everything except convenience and I almost always reach for them if I have time. Electric grinder only for convenience. If I were to rank them purely in terms of cup quality: 1. ZP6 for pourover and turbo shots, miles better than the rest 2. JX-Pro for espresso or some specific beans for pourover when I don't want high clarity 3. DF64 G2 with DLC burrs when I am in a hurry, or sometimes for specific beans/slightly more modern espresso taste profile. In general I still prefer the JX-Pro, though they're pretty close. My wife prefers these burrs to the JX-Pro though, but she mostly drinks milk drinks. 4. SSP Lab Sweets - worst for espresso. Good for pourover but the cup is muddy and I almost always still prefer the hand grinders.

There's a reason why I want df64 gen 2 because I thought it's one of bang for buck closest zero retention grinder.

How strange. I use a DF64V w HUs at the office and it has the lowest retention of any grinder I've used. It's basically 0.

The df54 is half the price... I have a 64 and my friend is seriously considering the 54.

most of them can. comically df64v is not the best for it and regular df64 would be much better.

I have the SSP MP’s in a df64 Gen 2 and do espresso. Hmu w questions

For roast level, my top two roasters are H&S and Hydrangea. H&S can get pretty light and I’ve had no problems with them. For espresso, I’m usually in the 4-9 range from burr chirp. I also get some local medium/light roast coffees for milk drinks and it still works great. I wouldn’t say they are sensitive to dailing in, but the range is very small. I’d say 80% of my beans fall within grind size 4-5.5. I do some v60, but not enough to tell ya if it’s good or not. I think my pourover palate just sucks lol

That is actually amazing. My DF64 is not easy to clean and I probably won't pull the trigger on a premium electric grinder for a couple years; however, I'm very interested in the long term ownership experience of these nicer grinders. Compared to an entry level electric grinder, are there any quirks you like or dislike about it?

OXO - better button placement, timer is kinda nice if you aren’t weighing things. - faster - quieter - easier to assemble / disassemble for cleaning. Baratza - lower retention than OXO (still a lot!) - somewhat better grind quality. - easier to repair / get spare parts for - upgradable to better burrs Honestly, for someone not discerning, I’d get the OXO. I honestly think it’s nicer to live with, and I thought the taste was going to change more than it did. The leap from pre-ground or a blade grinder to the OXO is significant, and the step from the OXO to the encore is small. Put it this way: I had my Baratza for less than a month before I got sick of it and upgraded to a DF64 g2. Now with the DF54 / sk40 / dk40 out, I wouldn’t buy an encore again. For an additional $50-80 over the encore you are going from a reliable but kinda just ok electric grinder to MUCH nicer machines. The encore isn’t a bad grinder, by any means. 15, heck even 3 years ago it was the king of the market. But the market has caught up, and we now have a ton of options that IMO render the Baratza as somewhat outdated.

a hand grinder will make great coffee at a lower price if you’re interested, can’t beat the kingrinder P1/2 for like 30$ if you’ve never ground your own beans. moving up the K6 can be found for ~100$. after that you probably wanna look at 1zpresso lineup. electric grinder you could get a baratza encore for a true budget option, then the df54 for the most bang for your buck. after that you’ll see diminishing returns and prices really increase, the rabbit hole is deep, but start small.

yeah the encore esp would be good because it would also be an upgrade over your sage built in grinder, so you could use it for espresso too. i’m not sure if they sell it with the single dose hopper and dosing cup, but you would definitely want to weigh and single dose your beans if you’re looking to improve your espresso and get consistent results with the aeropress. i suggested a hand grinder in my other comments but if you want a grinder to also upgrade your sage built in grinder then i would go electric and do the baratza encore esp or spend more for a df54.

Had a Turin DF-64 with SSP burrs, which I loved, but it was damaged in a terrible Vermont flood this summer. It was loud before, but after repairing, it made an even more hideous noise, but still seemed to grind ok. During the four months of being displaced from our home, I became accustomed to using a Timemore C-2 Max that I had purchased mainly for traveling. When we finally rented a new apartment (with neighbors), she scowled at me and said "you're not gonna use that thing, are you?" I was like, "ok sure, but I'm upgrading and getting a K-ultra!" First thing every morning I now make three pourovers with the K-Ultra grinder and Hario V-60 01 drippers. It's definitely more tedious, but I enjoy the morning ritual, and there's been no trouble with disturbing new neighbors at 6 AM either. As others have mentioned on here, I can also feel the texture differences in the beans, where lighter roasts are more of a crunchy workout, and the dark roasts feel smooth and easy. Cheers!

I have been using my DF64 for cold brew and espresso.

I have been getting good results so far. I have only had the grinder for a couple of months. The grind could be a little more course for cold brew but I do not get much sediment though the filter. I’ll take a photo of the next brew so you can check it out. For espresso the grinder is killer and the flavor of the bean really shines.

https://preview.redd.it/2neson1bodqd1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ccb43b2924413b3c632b429d93e461d603ec9c0 48sec to grind 130g. I fumbled around a little and wasn’t trying to rush, just curious how long it would take. I feel I save a ton of time compared to making cold brew with a blade grinder.

+1 Can't recommend DFs anymore, given their QA issues. They are great when they work, but manufacturing is still hit-or-miss IME (though steadily improving).

had a few friends buy DFs; at least the 64 and 83 had cross thread dial adjustments on a couple of them. the carrier alignment issue was pretty concerning too -- seems like there's some thermal expansion issues that would move things around in a transient kinda way, which is horrifying to debug

If you use the bellows there is almost no retention

I have both the ZP6 and the K Ultra, while there is difference between them, it’s not as significant as comments in this sub make it to be. The ZP6 will not nuke the body of your beverage away, nor will the K Ultra be an unclear mess when compared to the ZP6. I honestly feel like both these grinders can produce very similar cups, but the difference might be once you’re trying very hard to optimize a specific bean, which most of the time isn’t the case for daily brews since it would take way more coffee than most bags have, unless you’re the chosen one, the master dialer (which I’m not btw). In the end, since you already have an electric grinder for espresso, I don’t feel like the versatility of the K Ultra is that much of a plus, which would make me lean towards buying the ZP6, especially since it’s cheaper as well. Can’t say much about the Pietro btw, never tried it, only thing I know is that it uses flat burrs which might yield a different profile to the conical ones. Is it significant (or desireable) enough to justify the price? No clue, depends on the person, but one thing is for sure, if practicality and mobility is a factor for you, the pietro might not be the best idea since it’s a table top grinder.

100% of people will say breville. cheapest grinder would be baratza encore esp. but id spend more and get a grinder you won't have to upgrade again, ie a df64. grinder is the most important part of good espresso.

I'd personally get a filter-only grinder. Wait for a sale, grab an Ode Gen 2, and buy an espresso grinder when the time comes (DF54 is insane value). The best grinders for double duty are medium-high clarity conical grinders like Comandante, K-Ultra etc IMO. The Femobook A5 and Lagom Casa are a couple electric grinders that are in the same category (I haven't tried either, but they're well reviewed). I previously used a Lagom Mini for both filter and espresso and it was fantastic. The DF54 and 64 both do a decent job at filter, but it's not great. The 64 mm SSP MP burrs are often recommended as a do-it-all burr set, but they are for a very specific espresso profile and they are not beginner friendly for espresso. I didn't enjoy the espresso with them. SSP Cast are supposed to be decent for both, but you're giving up the clarity everyone is always seeking. A couple other decent options that I've tried are Ditting 54mm steel burrs in the Vario+ and Eureka's 50 mm brew burrs in an entry level mignon. The UX is not ideal with either of these setups compared to a grinder designed to single dose. If the Ditting burrs fit in the DF without crazy mods it would be a great option. Edit: I forgot to mention that there are now brew burrs available for the DF54. I'm planning to grab a set to try out once they're available in Canada.

If you’re comfortable tinkering (or dare I say excited about tinkering) the DF64 is a no brainer.

"but, I do understand your point on the VS6 if I am not purchasing SSP's later on" You should check Varia's website since only their proprietary burrs work. "Can I ask how much you favor the 54 than the 64 gen 2 or varia vs3 gen 2?" The flavor difference between df54 and df64 is minimal, but more of a speed upgrade as well as convenience. The DF54 is still in it's infancy and has some quircks on it's own, one being that it requires much more regular cleaning for it not to clog. With the DF64 you still get the option to change the burrs later on, although I enjoy the DF64V more since the variable RPM makes a difference in shot quality and it can also be dialed to the minimum for high clarity filter. Varia VS3 is a grinder I'm not familiar with, nor I can recommend it as a learning curve towards upgrading to the VS6 later on. Each grinder is different. That being said, it's a conical and I don't particularly prefer conicals. I'd rather get a hand grinder that's twice as cheap and will never fail. The DF54 is by far the best bang for your buck, but if you can stretch to a DF64 it would be great.

Df64 is pretty good. you can do espresso and filter

I second this. it's a very solid flat burr grinder with a lot of range from filter coffee to espresso. Build quality is fantastic, but it is a single dose grinder, so if you are looking for something with a hopper that can grind through larger amounts, then Baratza Encore ESP is a good introductory grinder with espresso range

Love this video and the £500 one. As someone who's been grinding manually for espresso for close to three years, I've definitely reached the point where I'm prepared to make my life a little easier. I wonder if I can be cheeky, James (or anyone else kind enough to answer), why would I choose to go for the DF64 over the DF54?

DF64 - many burr options for upgrades, faster grind time, metal dosing cup that has less static issues, larger chute so its less likely to be blocked.. i dont know what else. DF54 is smaller and cheaper which is a bonus for me!

I mean, not true at all. You can get really decent espresso with a Breville Bambino ($300usd) and something like a smart grinder pro ($200usd) or a df64 ($400usd) and that will be enough for MOST people. Hell, even a sub $100 hand grinder and the Bambino will get someone by. Nobody has to spend over $1000.

\> I would prefer a single dose as I use 3 types of coffee beans I use here and there. Agreed, go with a single-dosing grinder. \> I am thinking of getting the DF54 My strong recommendation is to get one via a retailer who can support you if there are issues and not direct. My own experience of buying directly from Turin is woeful; their customer service was non-existent. If you buy from an in-country retailer, they are responsible for sorting any issues. \> Would you recommend a DF64 instead or try and get a DF54? I had a v1 DF64 previously - IMO, it is probably the best value grinder on the market today, given its price and its ability to have different burrs. Given you say you don't mind loud noise (and it is, IMO a very loud grinder), this seems like a good option for you (but buy via an in-country retailer). \> Off topic, but it seems like the DF series is way more favoured than the Niche. I am not so sure. There is a lot of talk and recommendations for them, but when you see pics of people's setups, there are an awful lot of niche zeros out there (inc. with me - I have one alongside an Option-O P64 and some hand-grinders). The Zero is not favored so strongly as the flat grinders for pour-over, it tends to get used primarily for espresso, which IMO is is very good for. Plus, has the best workflow and sound (quietness) of any grinder I have used. \> On another note, I am thinking of getting a Lagom Casa A superbly well-built and capable grinder. Option-O are legendary in the business.

The difference is the burr size and the modability, I guess. So, you could swap out different burr sets on the 64, but maybe not on the 54 because I don't think there are a lot on the market. So, if you want to swap out your burrs for different styles, I'd go for the DF64. If you're gonna stick to one thing, I'd go for the DF54

Find a used df64, I recently sold mine for just that amount.

It has about twice less power and small chute makes you clean it more often. Plus, you pretty much stuck with default 54 mm burrs with no options to upgrade. When you can get DF64 for just 100€ more - it is a questionable choice.

1. It is not about time. It can stale. 2. No, it is not. 3. Stock burrs on 64 are even better, but you want have an options. 4. On well known web site which claims that they deal with EU and US taxes it is~100 EUR.

I think the single unit that I'd be looking at if I was willing to spend more more than $250 US is the DF64. It is a bit bigger than even the Fellow Opus but still not huge and has some advantages over the DF54. That said, if you have a bit more to spend, it might be worthwhile to do as others have said and have a manual grinder for pour over and a separate electric grinder for espresso. There are some engineering challenges with devising a multi-purpose machine. Even ignoring those, there are some kinda unavoidable issues involving retention when you make a big change in grind size, and if you do it all the time then those issues can really pile up.

Of course you can :D It's mostly swiching between grind settings thats a pain, and on a lot of grinders going between coarse and fine the setting don't always mach excatly when going back and forth - especially in the espresso range. You could absolutely get an electric grinder now, but I also reccomend getting a seperate grinder, when you get an espresso setup. Depending if you get the df64, a new grinder could be for pour over or espresso: I've heard that the df64 is a good all-rounder, so you could get zp6 or similar for pour over and use the df64 for espresso or you could keep that for pour over and get something espresso-forward for the new machine.

https://preview.redd.it/de0llh98nl2e1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc928f4248684a60b4d347ec66838098cbc7b1d6 Still the best hand grinder imho. I also use a DF64 with Multipurpose SSP red burrs. Great for light roasted beans.

I had it for a few months to try it out and had the same issue. I purchased from Nordstrom who has a really good return policy… I returned it. I couldn’t take it. I bought the DF64 and am very happy. No issues, miles better in terms of quality, and looks arguably better than other grinders in that price range.

Depends if you prefer single dosing or grind on demand. For single dosing it's hard to beat a DF54 or DF64. If you don't want to weigh out every time and don't switch beans/brew styles often, you can get a Eureka Mignon Specialita from espressocoffeeshop.com for about $450US shipped. I just did the latter and it's really improved my mornings

I got rid of that machine and got a DF54, then upgraded that to DF64. It’s wild that the Opus does not even meet the standards of a Fellow product to me.

whats wrong with the df64?

Thanks! For your first point, damn i did notice that sometimes but i always thought it was just due to the aging of the beans. Like I've noticed the same beans would require a finer setting the older it gets. But for your second point i never had a chance to do any comparison since i've never had a grinder specifically for filter. Do you have any recommendations for a budget hand grinder i could try so i could compare it with the df64?

Yeah - i just thought it was related to that but didnt know it could have actually been the grinder. Thanks for telling me. For the hand grinder, hopefully less than like 80 bucks? is the Q air any good for that budget?

This will be an interesting answer, I've literally just had a DF64 G2 delivered. I got the SSP cast burrs. I think the Intamills have a more espresso profile with more body and less clarity

Italmill, Intamin, sorry I can't remember the brand name. It's the Italian burr manufacturer who supplies the stock DF64. I definitely think they're intended for espresso. (I think Intamin is an engineering firm that makes rollercoasters...) So far I've made one filter with the grinder and I'm very happy. It's not regrinding anything so there are no ultrafines, which fixes the problem my last grinder had!

Just a sample size of one, but I have a JX-Pro, ZP6, and DF64 Gen 2 with both DLC burrs and SSP Lab Sweet V3 burrs. The hand grinders are better IMO for everything except convenience and I almost always reach for them if I have time. Electric grinder only for convenience. If I were to rank them purely in terms of cup quality: 1. ZP6 for pourover and turbo shots, miles better than the rest 2. JX-Pro for espresso or some specific beans for pourover when I don't want high clarity 3. DF64 G2 with DLC burrs when I am in a hurry, or sometimes for specific beans/slightly more modern espresso taste profile. In general I still prefer the JX-Pro, though they're pretty close. My wife prefers these burrs to the JX-Pro though, but she mostly drinks milk drinks. 4. SSP Lab Sweets - worst for espresso. Good for pourover but the cup is muddy and I almost always still prefer the hand grinders.

The answer is absolutely yes, and the best recommendation will depend so much on what kind of beans you like, what kind of drinks you like, and your budget. But if it were me, these would be my top choices for a two-in-one (I do both pourover and espresso, but I lean towards pourover these days): If you're willing to hand grind, 1zpresso K-Ultra or Comandante would be outstanding. Kingrinder K6 on a budget. A lot of people find this tedious but it's actually my preferred method and I swear by my 1zpressos. You won't beat a hand grinder for price to quality, and you'll save space. For electric, Lagom Mini would be fantastic and space saving, or a Lagom Casa. Timemore 078s for a slightly higher budget. If you want to blow your budget, you've got TONS of options. Lagom P64, Zerno Z1, WPM ZP-1, Acaia Orbit, Lagom O1...we could go on. The DF grinders are an option I guess...Excellent bang for your buck but I personally do not like them or recommend them at all (I have a DF64 Gen 2 and...let's just say it's gonna be gone soon).

A lot, but for this specific post, two things: 1) If he switches from filter to espresso often (which I do), the grind setting will shift a little each time (ie if you go from 10 to 50 back to 10, the 10 won't behave like 10). This is because the rubber feet and flimsy wave spring that hold the upper burr are bad design with loose tolerances and too much room for inconsistency in the amount of tension they apply. The grinder works best if you lock the burr tightly in place to seat it, then adjust back and stay at or near the same setting. 2) I don't think it's a good filter grinder. I got it as an upgrade (with DLC and SSP Lab Sweet v3 burrs) and it's just strictly worse than my hand grinders for filter.

Yeah the DF54 and DF64 are espresso grinders first and foremost. My hand grinders smoke my DF64 Gen 2 for filter.

SD40 pasok sa budget mo. If kaya mo magsave pa ng onti, DF64 Gen 2 because you can switch to SSP burrs in the future na gusto mo magtry ng "modern" espresso (brighter, higher clarity)

get the df83 gen 2 or v since its for slightly commercial use . for home df64 gen 2 would do . consider opting for ssp hu or mazzaer burrs for espresso (old style), ssp mp for clarity

gen2 is more expresso forward rather and the 64v. something to keep in mind

The DF64 Gen 2 is super easy to clean and dismantle. No screws or anything special is needed. Twist the grinding chamber to get access to the burrs and you can clean it using compressed air, or even just a normal brush.

My current setup is DF64 Gen2 for espresso and Timemore 078 for filter coffee. Sorry to hear about your negative experience using the DF64 Gen2. I guess I was fortunate enough in that my experience is nowhere near yours. Grinder came reasonably well aligned out of the box, and retention is generally minimal with easy cleanups. Anyways, I know you’re now considering going for the 078s. If you really want to minimize the number of grinders you own, then the 078s will be a really good option. But just to reiterate as another person has indicated though, due to its unconventional geometry, even if you get the turbo burrs later you wont be able to use the turbo burrs to grind for espresso. I personally still prefer using a standalone grinder for espresso and pourover so that I dont have to mess around with recalibrating my grind settings everytime I bounce back between pourovers and espresso. Since my household drinks both pourovers and espressso-based drinks almost equally.

I probably watched 4hrs of stupid YouTube videos on this. I bought the Turin DF64 gen 2.

DF54 if you're on a budget, DF64 gen 2 if you have the coin. Both will make the same quality coffee, the DF64 is faster. These are durable, overbuilt, and repairable. I've had the standard off the shelf burr grinder from Target, Breville burr grinder, and the Baratza before.

I still have one along with a Baratza Sette and now a DF64 gen 2. It's a great grinder, especially for the price. There's a lot of Breville hate, but it's not a bad machine. My biggest complaint was that it wasn't stepless and it clumps. You can mod it to be stepless and WDT helps with the clumps. If the burrs wear out, you can change out the burr set. If it ever stops grinding, more times than not it's the burr set or a plastic gear that failed, the gear is replaceable.

Df64 gen 2 is the best bet. If you don't want to single dose, and do use the same beans etc then a mignon libra is a good option.

Why is my 4 year old df64 that still works perfectly crap? What else would you get for an affordable single doser that can use the 64 mm burr platform?

I have an original with no issues and the alignment was good out of the box. They very quickly made updates and the Df64 gen 2 is in a good place. Burr size doesn't matter too much but the range of options at 64 mm is huge. What else is there for the price? It's not like the eureka grinders are without issues. Yeah you can get better grinders paying lots more but value wise, the DF grinders are currently fantastic.

Lots of people are very happy with their DF grinders including everyone I know personally. It's not some conspiracy, they just make grinders that home users want at good prices. The alignment is usually good if you read around. All you've done is bash them, what else is available for the price that offers an all around single dosing grinder which is what many home users want? You can spend 4 times more on a Lagom p64 for exactly the same flavour. The Mignon grinders still use a dated design not ideal for changing grind size etc, and don't usually work with the 64 mm burr options absolutely.

There's many many people who have had no issues. I think you're letting their marketing get to your head. Sure they're jumping on trends but they're giving consumers good products that they want. If you can't suggest any better alternatives then why bash great products?

I have the DF64 gen 2 with the SSP multipurpose burrs and I like it.

I love my ZP6. I also have a DF64ii, a Gevi, and an Ode 2. I rarely do batches as large as you do, but I usually gravitate to the ZP6. But the DF64ii is solid. I'm setting up a coffee station at work, and it'll be my go-to work grinder. My Gevi works really well when I use my v60 or Origami, but I still use the ZP6. I don't use my Ode very often.

The Encore is a good grinder at its price point, but the K6 may even be better. I enjoyed grinding by hand for a long time and still do when traveling, but the grind quality of my Philos is just too good ;) My advice is to spend once as much as you can, not to go easy now and upgrade soonish. E.g. when going electric maybe go for the DF54 or (second hand) DF64g2, if you can afford it. When going for hand operated and you enjoy light roast, the 1zpresso ZP6 can’t be beaten (for med-dark K6 is great, especially for its price).

I had the Niche Zero and now have the DF64 Gen 2. Both are great grinders with their pluses and minuses. The Niche does have better workflow and is easier to clean. Cleaning the chute out on the 64 is a bit of a pain. I drink med/light roast coffee in long blacks. I like the results slightly better with the 64; however the difference is not as large as I thought it would be. The Niche also does fine with med/light. The 64 is louder, slightly messier and more of a chore to clean out. Ended up giving Niche to my brother in law who DR nks darker roasts in lattes. The 64 just slightly won out with the better cup result less the slight downgrade in workflow.

For pourover, Fellow Ode 2. For espresso, DF64 Gen2 for best value. If you got money to burn, then Weber EG-1 or an EK43.

This comment may get a lot of snickers, but I love my DF64G2 for everyday use but occasionally, I also like the taste of dark roasted oily beans. I don't want to grind these beans in the DF so I use a cheap $29 Cuisinart blade grinder for these nearly black beans. I have seen too many horror pics of how these beans can "gum" up your burrs, unless you're willing to break it down and thoroughly clean it after each use. I do a 35 second grind on the blade machine with a lot of pauses and shakes in between. Clean up is easy and the coffee tastes pretty good.

OP sounds like they are still exploring. When I was in the same situation I went with a DF64 Gen 2 flat burr single dose grinder and upgraded to SSP Lab Sweet burrs. With a 64 mm or 83 mm flat burr grinder there's lots of different aftermarket burrs to experiment with clarity, transparency, body, etc.. For 3000 they could buy 3 grinders and multiple burrs! https://youtu.be/F_lPebBqVd4?feature=shared

I just returned my df64 gen 2 after less than 3 weeks. It clogged no less than 7 times. Had horrible retention. The burrs were very badly out of alignment (more detail on this further down). I swapped the original burrs for ode gen 2 burrs and couldn't get those aligned either. The amount of fines was absurd. It also created a HUGE mess like the ionizer wasn't working. The whole front of it would be covered in fines. The worst part was I would have burr chirps while set to filter. I could actually see the burrs spinning with a wobble. Lastly, after a few uses the motor was making a high pitch whine and got very hot. I don't know if it somehow got dameged in transit, because the dosing cup ring was actually bent. Which they replaced. So I actually only had about a week of use while trying to diagnose/fix it. After providing tons of video evidence I was able to get them to accept a return. However, I was told I meed to pay shipping and restocking fee. Which I believe is absurd because the unit was very obviously defective. So, I'm looking for a grinder to replace this hot mess. I am mainly a pourover/filter drinker with a high interestin my first espresso machine. I want the 078s for it's stepless dial and possible future proofing. However, I want the 078 burrs. Is there any way to make the 078 stepless? Are there any other differences of the 78 & 78s outside of the burrs and being none stepless? Has anyone heard if timemore will release burrs individually? I saw posts from 6 months ago people thought that was imminent. Basically, I want a machine that is trouble free and works out of the box. I would love something that does filter and espresso decent with the option to tune/change burrs. I was considering the ode, but my buddy has one and the tolerances seem pretty poor. He's also had some issues. Is the 078 the way to go? Is the coffee filter really that much worse or the 78s? Lastly, does anyone else have other electric grinder recommendations? I was thinking about the df83v, but that kind of scares me after my df64 experience.

I’ve had mine for a year as well. For filter coffee it’s good enough. Yes it holds so much ground coffee inside its insane. I’ve had to clean it a few times and ended up with enough ground coffee to pull an espresso with. I’ve started using it with espresso 3 weeks ago…. So glad the df64 gen 2 sits in its place since yesterday 😂. Will continue to use the opus for daily filter though.

I have a Timemore C2, 1Zpresso K-MAX, DF64 gen 2 and for Christmas just got a Fellow Ode Gen 2. After hand grinding for 4 years; the Ode has been such a welcomed addition to my setup. I LOVE it. It's honestly such a joy to use. I use the DF64 strictly for espresso, I didn't want to faff around between espresso grind/filter grind and purging loads of beans each time. It can do filter quite nicely, but wasn't worth the faff when the KMax was giving me the results I wanted. The only real negative with the Ode is that if you're spritzing your beans, sometimes they can get stuck to the walls in the hopper. But I 3D printed a hopper with steeper walls and that's solved this. \*subjective\* As for taste, the Ode gen 2 is producing some of the cups I've ever had. A noticeable improvement in clarity and flavour separation in naturals. TL;DR - Ode Gen 2 still good - highly recommend.

Ode gives me cleaner, sweeter cups with better flavour separation and clarity. However the DF64 *can* be "brighter" and has put some "spark" into a few dull coffees, though it also brings a little astringency. The DF64 reminds me of a really good conical burr hand grinder. It gives me VERY similar results to my Kmax. Again though, these are just my findings and my personal opinion :)