Flair 58 Plus 2

I don't get it, doesn't using a 49mm stepdown basket (like the billet basket from SWORKS) on the Flair 58+ II produce the same exact results? That's my current set up. Or this is for those who don't own a flair and this can be a first purchase option?

Go with a Flair58+2 and an 1Zpresso J-Ultra. 😎👍 Total control and excellent results, plus you learn a lot more. You’ll need a Nanofoamer for milk though.

Flair 58+2 and a good kettle. I just saved you $1000 and if you have a good grinder your back in the high 90’s. 😎💪

I ordered an Odyssey Argos spring lever at the top end of your budget. I’d recommend a Flair58+2, good kettle and a Nanofoamer (if you like milk drinks). Then spend the rest on the best grinder you can afford. You will get unbeatable shots and learn a lot.

Have you considered the Flair 58+2? This thing feels like it could survive a nuclear war, and there isn’t a whole lot that can break. The only maintenance I do is a a monthly disassembly and re-lube of the gaskets.

58+2 represent! I now grind with an 1zpresso J-Ultra, and like you, I was middling for years on a subpar machine. I'd still drink the shots straight from my Dedica, sour or bitter as they were. Now, the tasting notes on the bag actually mean something. I had a note calling for smoke, and I tasted it and it differed from just bitterness. Melon notes come thru. It's eye opening really. I'm sure Flair won't work for everyone, but as the only coffee drinker in my home doing 2-3 pulls a day, it definitely works for me.

You can get a flair 58 right now for under $500, too. If you really want good espresso and don't mind learning on a lever, the flair 58 can go toe to toe with multi-thousand dollar machines. The flair 58+ is my daily driver and my first choice for the best possible espresso i can make

I have a flair 58+ and an e61 machine. I definitely recommend manual. The flair is a lot more intuitive and forgiving. Something like a flair pro3 or if you have the budget, a flair 58 can give you just about the best espresso one could make. I always will recommend the flair 58 over the pro just for the workflow and ability to use a ton of 58mm accessories like baskets. I have an sworks high flow stepdown that I use with my f58 and it's pretty awesome. I would challenge people with $5k machines to match or beat the espresso I can make with my f58.

Also, I forgot to include... with the flair, you don't have to worry about pumps or internals not working or breaking. All you have to do is clean and relube the orings from time to time and it will last you a long time.

It all depends what you are wanting out of a machine, and for what purpose it serves. For example, i make straight espresso and nothing else, no milk drinks. That's why I'm completely satisfied with my flair 58+ and lucca solo with flow control. They both have exactly what I need out of a machine. All i need is temp stability, profiling capabilities, and simple to maintain machines, which is exactly what I have. I never use steam, so no need for a steam wand or dual boiler. Of course, this is just me and not most people out there are drinking nothing but straight espresso, so they're going to have other needs/wants out of a machine. I could see myself getting a Bianca or synchronika some day, but i don't think i would necessarily be gaining anything out of a setup like that, besides steaming capabilities and a hot water spout.

You can get a flair 58 right now for under $500, too. If you really want good espresso and don't mind learning on a lever, the flair 58 can go toe to toe with multi-thousand dollar machines. The flair 58+ is my daily driver and my first choice for the best possible espresso i can make

Flair 58, hands down

I’ve been using flair pro for 2 years, 58+ seems way better experience.

I'm a huge fan of the Robot but I get the Flair 58+ following. If you supplement a 58+ with say a Profitec GO/Move then you can swap the portafilter and accessories between machines. You could even get on the step down basket hype train. Saying all that I'd still reccomend the Robot. It's a buy it for life type of quality and there are some accessories for it if that's your thing.

I'm extremely biased so take my advice for what it's worth. If you want something forgiving and simple go for the Robot. If you want something with accessories that will transfer to another machine go for the Flair 58. I can't really speak to the Flair 3 (I know very little about it). Meticulous looks incredible but it's not going to have the durability of the Robot. It is a very interesting interesting machine, no doubt. I hope you find something that fits your needs.