Flair 58 Plus 2

I've quite enjoyed my Flair 58, and using the NanoFoamer for lattes (https://subminimal.com/products/nanofoamer) Quite the learning curve, but lots of control, easily competes with machines much much more expensive than it like you said.

The flair will make better spro. You can pressure profile, pre-infuse, and a piston driven lever can apply water faster and more evenly than a pump driven machine through a dispersion screen. In my opinion, the only “step up” from a Flair 58 for in cups results with repeatability is a Decent. This is coming from someone who has had a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II, a LM GS3, and currently owns a Flair 58 Plus 2 and a Decent 1.45. There are things the decent can do which simply aren’t possible on any other machine I’m aware of, and it is consistent and auto corrects itself based on weight, pressure, etc.

I would not use a decent for high volume. A flat 9 bar ultra quick heating workhorse double boiler would be my pick. Specially a Mini Vivaldi II. Heats up in 5 min, can brew and steam at the same time, and has monster steam power. Pretty easy to find pre-owned for $1k

Don't push your hobbies/interests onto others unless they have a genuine interest in it man. The setup you listed isn't for casual coffee drinkers, its gonna be time consuming and a workout. I make my wife nice latte or espresso on the weekend because while she enjoys it, she doesn't want to take time in the morning using a Mazzer Philos and Flair 58 Plus 2 for her daily coffee as its a process. She'd rather push a few buttons and have her morning coffee ready to go quickly without thinking about grind size, puck prep, weighing, etc. Just let her get a Nespresso and enjoy that; I still enjoy a Nespresso coffee here and there when I'm at a friend's house, its not the end of the world.

Bei mir waren es beim letzten zählen 8 mokka Kannen, Flair 58+2, 9barista mk2 pro und demnächst kommt noch eine ecm mechanika max dazu für morgends wenn ich arbeiten muss. Eine elektrische und 2 handmühlen, gefolgt von zahlreichen Zubehör wie 4 Waagen , 5 tamper, nivellierer, wdt toll etc.

Ich habe unter anderem eine Flair 58, damit kann man tollen Kaffee machen, die brühung ist verzeihen gegenüber einer mühle da ich den Druck bestimmen, nur morgends wenn es schnell gehen muß benutze ich meine bialetti Kannen oder den 9barista. Wirklich gute Maschinen beginnen mit mühle bei etwa 2500 von renommierten Herstellern nach oben keine Grenze, der Witz ist , die guten wollen den handhebler nachahmen und das macht sie so preis intensiv, die billigen sind nach 2 bis 3 jahren tot und werden nicht repariert. So sehe ich das

Are you prioritizing looks over quality? Do you want to make shots back to back for visitors, while steaming milk? Elizabeth will be better than Mara x, but looks much uglier. However they are at similar price, and both are dual boiler which are great for espresso and steaming milk at the same time. But both are prosumer (high budget) machines. Going into the actual mid-budget setups, you can either get the cheaper bambino plus, or the higher quality lelit Victoria. The former is a more user friendly with it's faster heat up time. The latter will give you better control and probably will last longer. If you want to go manual, just go with flair 58 or flair 58+ V2 (with boiler) and pair with a subminimal electric milk jug. More effort but you get the perfect shot every time thanks to the control of the lever, and you can use subminimal at the same time for easy frothing. For kettle, drop fellow and just go with the cheapest Amazon/AliExpress stovetop kettle, and insert a thermometer. Maybe a time more fish if you absolutely want electric, aa it's still cheaper. Now with the extra 800 saved from the above, you can get much better grinder. Zerno Z1, lagom casa, mazzer philos, etc. if your budget allows, I'd just push to get lagom p80 with omni burrs and never upgrade from that. Flair+p80 will make much better coffee than spiritello+df54 simply because of the grinder. So spend more money on that.

I honestly like the 58+2 much more

I don't get it, doesn't using a 49mm stepdown basket (like the billet basket from SWORKS) on the Flair 58+ II produce the same exact results? That's my current set up. Or this is for those who don't own a flair and this can be a first purchase option?