Jura - E4

Lets' be real here, if you spent time in this sub then you saw the negatives about the z10/giga 10 but you chose to ignore them. I am one of the nay sayers. The Jura E4 makes the same espresso as the z10. Lots of people have talked about the joe app being functional but not practical. No coffee phone apps are practical. People in this sub are dumb half the z10 ravers don't want to admit they over spent for little performance over a Miele or Kitchenaid, the others rave about it because its bragging about how much they spent, meanwhile the z10 is half the price in most of europe. 95% of the people in this sub act like they are coffee experts swear by Super Creme and their choice of drink is 11 ounces of milk to 1 oz of espresso on a #5 grind. That isn't coffee. They don't get it any of it. They don't even know how to brew espresso. If it makes you feel better the giga 10 is even worse in terms of cheap plastic. I wanted the two hoppers though. Your post seems more like buyers remorse. If you need help brewing ok espresso all you have to do is set the grinder to the fine setting and watch your ratios. Keep coffee on high strength 1.5oz max for espresso, 4oz max for coffee. If using dark roast keep the temp on low or Med. Hot water will make dark roast harsh.

I second this while sipping delicious coffee from my E4 wondering if I'm just easy to please.

jura e4 reconditioned for 699 from jura usa. great deal on a great machine IMHO. does not do milk but if you are like me and love strong fresh coffee this is the berries

Those were your words not mine. Its just a matter of research and testing and actually knowing what you are getting. These machines have high profit margins. You are lost in their made up marketing terms and like I said equate high cost to value, that is actually how you perceive value. The E4 makes the exact same espresso as the z10. They both use conical grinders. The E4 probably makes better espresso because the grinder is more adjustable, same brew unit inside. The more money you spend on these machines the more drinks and "features" you get. Some of the features like the PRG on the z10 is utter BS. iut is software driven and allows jura to try to charge more for a "feature" which is not practical in use. With the giga its just the dual hoppers and flat burr grinders (ginder is no big deal), its not rated for higher duty cycle. The z10 was so pose to be a higher fit and finish but its actually cheap plastic. Jura 100% is screwing the pooch in the US and living off their brand name. Go back and read Jura's marketing terms and think about what they actually mean. They are all BS terms made up to add perceived value. The j8 twin is a better machine than the z10, especially if you can live with not having the auto milk frother thing or the cold extraction. Cold extraction is also a gimmick. Its less flavor, and all they do is lower the heat and slow the flow, but it allows jura to charge an extra $500. things like that.

Jura is 90% perceived value that is for sure, now all the jura owners who can't speak critically of their machines will down vote me. Jura makes good coffee, nothing spectacular, certainly not wroth $4k. The z series used to be "premium" with metal cosmetic parts, but now its just cheap. The only difference between the z10 and the j is ice and the auto switching milk frother. The J series actually makes better coffee because the grinder is a little more adjustable than the egrinder. These machines just do the labor for you, you still need to learn how to brew espresso which it sounds like you haven't. Super Auto inherent limitations make it easy as you basically go on the finest or 2nd finest grind, all coffee beans all the time, then you adjust the length to taste. The sooner you get past the rage the sooner you'll start to enjoy the machine especially if you are stuck with it.

I mean thats fine, value is realitive. I've got a giga 10 on my counter, it makes ok coffee. Same as the E4 would. I just like to call a spade a spade in terms of Jura's marking and perceived value and why their pricing is the way it is. I got my giga 10 for $2600 maybe when it first came out. I have a kf8 too. Its hard to recommend jura at their current price points.

Another vote for the Jura. We absolutely love ours :)

I’m the exact same use case as you. I didn’t want to pay for bells and whistles when all I want is the best possible espresso and I want it superauto for convenience. I went with the Jura E4 and can highly recommend. No milk capability, good grinder, pulls great, can do two shots at a time, hot water for americano, easy to run clean cycles. Had mine for a year now and don’t regret it at all. I had Jura A1s before (now the ENA 4) and the E4 is vastly superior for a minimally more money.

Well, I have a Jura E4 (five years) and a KF7 (one year), but most of the OPs comments are valid and apply to my two machines as well. Downsides for the Jura is that the menu display and control buttons are cryptic at best and that it breaks down and has to be sent in every two years for a $400 overhaul. Biggest nuisance for the K7 is that the drip tray and grounds bucket have to be emptied much more frequently, every six cups. As regards appearance, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Brewed coffee quality can be better with one or the other, depending on the bean choice and settings. I use both machines alternatively, mostly for just brewed coffee, but I will trash the Jura after it dies the next time, simply because I am tired of paying the steep periodic return and repair costs. When and if the KF dies, I will simply buy another one.

You have a huge budget. In the world of superauto, reviews and consensus usually say Jura is the way to go for the very best Espresso quality. There are some claims about mold because the brew unit is sealed inside unlike most other brands, but it's currently very hard to tell if mold is still an issue and if it ever was too under normal condition and care. Because you don't need milk, you don't need to invest more than a Jura E4 which comes with a P.A.G grinder. Their very latest machine comes with a P.A.G.3 (J8 Twin) but I sincerely doubt it really is better in terms of grinder quality, people with actual internal knowledge could tell. It won't brew Americano though, but it does have hot water. Jura E4 makes 5g to 16g coffee puck configurable by intensity. If I were you, I would get a good grinder + espresso machine or at least a good semi-automatic like an Oracle Jet. Ninja Luxe ES701c is a good simple semi-automatic choice too. Coffee quality is important too, buy fresh beans.

Checkout the Jura e4...I was after the same thing. I just got one and love it. Just get a separate frother. You'll be better in the long run anyways. Less to keep clean and fix without the milk option built in.

My E4 comes out 160°+ Hot enough for me.