Rancilio - Silvia V2

Rancilio Sylvia owner here. V2. It's about 20 years old. And I've owned it for 12 years of that. 0 need for selling it. This thing will stay. It's simple. Robust. And makes good coffee. Sure. Not perfect. A lot of the ehm... perfectionists.. complain about temperature surfing and what not. I have little interest in single origin, locally roasted beans with notes of vanilla, chocolate and berries or something. I just use it to make a good cup of coffee.

I was given a well maintained V2 Silvia which is now more than 20 years and going strong with no issues. It's a no frills machine but pumps out solid espresso

Don’t change, the Silvia’s are easy to work on,built like tanks and make great espresso. Perfect machine unless money is not a concern.

Didnt even make the list baby ( Facebook Marketplace broken Silvia V2 with replaced boiler and DF64 )

Rancilio Silvia (non-PID) here that has been under daily use with 3-6 extractions per day or the past six years and only have had to do the normal maintenance routine on the group head (screen and gasket). Went with the Rocky grinder too that has been flawless.

This. My Rancilio Silvia is 6.5 years old and pulls at least 4 shots per day (around 10k total lifetime shots). Only after several years I had to do a group head tune-up kit ($30, replaces seal and screen). It is paired with a Rocky Grinder of the same vintage.

The advantages of a lot of built in grinders is, that they are conical, have a wider particle distribution and are way easier to dial in. If you do mostly milk drinks, that is a huge plus without much downsides. IF you like nerding out and clarity, it's not that great a deal but still not terrible if you just start out. Since that 600-700 bucks is a lot of money for you guys (as it is for most of us), I would recommend maybe looking into machines that last a long time and are easily repairable. Like a refurbed Rancilio Silvia, kind of a legendary machine and they last forever. Most appliance like machines, like Breville and Ninja don't have the best track record in regards to longevity and service. Here in Germany the Silvias go for around 300 used. You will read that you need to temperature surf with that machine but it's so easy, you'll learn it in like 10 minutes. So going by European prices, you could get a Silvia and something like a Eureka Mignon or Baratza Encore ESP for your budget. That would set you up for a very long time. I bet there's still Silvias from twenty years ago that still pull every day espresso. There are "traditional" espresso machines (easy setup, last forever) with grinders, but the grinder usually sucks (I am happy if someone has a good recommendation here though).

For what it's worth, with the never versions of the Silvia, temperature surfing apparently is a lot easier. With mine it's as simple as purging water until the heating lamp turns on and then pulling your shot the moment it turns off again if you want around 93 degrees and wait for around 1-2 seconds for every degree you want it hotter. I use that water to heat up my cup so it's really a non issue. The Pro version is a dual boiler machine so it's going to be more expensive but at least here in Germany, it's one of the cheaper dual boilers at around 1500€.

With your preferences, get a Ranciliio Silvia. It's an incredibly sturdy machine with a steam wand like the ones from professional machines. It also uses super solid, shop type portafilters. If you buy used, you can get a decent used grinder for the rest. Only thing to look out for used, is rust under the drip tray. The machine requires a bit of a hands on puling routine because it doesn't have a PID but your post sounds like you can handle that not problem (it's very easy anyways, just time your shots based on the heating light).

Depends on what is important to you.  Fast heat up, looks, PID, easily adjustable pressure, longevity, repairability, size, the actual process of making the shot? If you want a long lasting machine and like tinkering, you would probably go for a Silvia or a used ECM or something similar. If you want a really nice looking machine and only drink espresso, you might end up with a ECM puristika. Want the most bang for the buck, you will probably end up with a modified Delonghi Dedica or your machine. I went the used ECM route (Classika 1 for 500€, absolute bargain). And there are differences in shot quality, but I don’t think they are purely price related and certainly one could argue that a lot of people have a way better machine than they could ever make use of. It’s a hobby for a lot of people so they like to treat themselves.

I was almost there too. Couldn't decide between the You, Dalla Corte Studio and Nurri R-Type. In the end, I decided to mod my dad's old Silvia and get myself a nice lever machine for the purist in me. The insane consistency and absolute control over every parameter is really nice with programmable machines. I find myself pulling a lot of lever shots though. Kind of magical.

I have Gaggimate on my Silvia. Imo getting anything other than a modded Silvia or Gaggia short of a Decent is not worth it, except if you want something very specific, like a spring lever or a specific look.  The breadth of adjustments, repeatability and functionality is nothing short of astonishing.   Gaggiuino is even more packed with features, but it’s closed source and imo Gaggimate is a bit more fun to dive into.   I would recommend not getting a hand grinder for that many espresso a day. 

What else short of a Decent do you think could hold its own against a Gaggimate/Gaggiuino modded machine? I had half a dozen machines so far, including high quality E61, direct lever and spring lever machines and the only thing I would consider were a Meticulous, but that's not a great idea for op, who does mostly milk drinks.

If you’re not doing three or four milk drinks at a time daily, single boiler is where it’s at. The modded steam power of the Gaggimate should provide you with enough steam for more people than you would want to make coffee for.   Btw: the Silvia is a lot more spacious and easier to mod, if that fits your budget.

The Silvia is a lot more spacious inside so easier to modd. I much prefer how the information is presented for Gaggimate over Gaggiuino. Oh and the boiler is brass, not aluminum.

I have a bunch of machines, including spring lever and manual lever so I can give my 2 cents here. It's kind of funny with a spring lever. It just makes good coffee. You have some control, in my case via the ma-ter (boiler pressure, only really relevant for temperature and water pressure during filling the group head/pre infusion), then grind size, dose and pre infusion time and that's it. Find a good dose for your coffee, good grind size and pre infuse shorter for dark roast and longer for lights. Try out a couple of ratios until you find a good one and that's it. Great coffee. It is really hard to pull a bad shot. Even my botched first and so so second attempt tasted nice, and that was with light roast. It is incredibly simple so I have a hard time imagining a lot of failure points. Even if there ever were to happen anything, I could just go to the next hardware store and buy a replacement, except maybe for the Ma-Ter. And I am not even that technically inclined. I felt with my Flair it was kind of an involved pull, trying to hit your desired pressures at certain times, if you fuck up, it can actually taste bad. That amount of fuck up is really hard to do with a spring lever. The only other machine that lets you do it like a spring lever is kind of the opposite, something like a decent or in my case, a modded Silvia. And even then, it's not AS idiot proof or forgiving out of the box. That being said, you have to accept them for what they are and let go of some of the control you maybe wanted before. I find it liberating, some might find it frustrating. Also, I tried a bunch of lever machines and the Vectis is the only one I really enjoyed so far. The Cremina, the only other spring lever I tried, makes incredible espresso, but I really don't like the form factor. It's too short so it can potentially dip forwards when you pull. I don't like how hot everything gets, since you kind of have to stabilise it with your hand or arm and that is outright unpleasantly hot, even when you use your sleeve or a towel as an improvised oven mitt. In my opinion, there is really no excuse for that in a machine at that price. They can keep it almost as is and make it a lot more user friendly by using a single wooden part for better heat insulation to hold on to and a drip tray that is minimally longer. The Flair I had, the Pro3 is so labor intensive, it gets kind of old when you are not really into every step of it and you have to really pay attention when pulling. It is however capable to make mind blowing coffee. The La Pavoni suffers from the same problems the Cremina does but it gets even hotter, so hot that it can burn your coffee. And the drip tray is absolute shite, which is annoying in a lever machine. It is however priced a lot more fairly. On the Vectis, so far nothing annoys me. The drip tray is HUGE, The form factor makes it virtually impossible to tip it and it out of the box makes better coffee than the Silvia Gaggimate, Pop Up and ECM Classika I have. The Flair might be capable of better shots in theory but being that consistent and dialled in with it will probably not happen for most users.

Rancilio silvia and Gaggia Classic Pro are both exactly what you are looking for. And they don’t need mods like another poster said, but those help (especially the opv valve in the Gaggia, a five minute job).   Easily serviceable, a lot of repair shops, a lot can even be done by yourself.   You can buy those used, since they can run forever.

If your wife needs a simple push-button shot and you want better steam and build quality than the BBE, your best bet might be the Lelit Victoria I t’s a single boiler with programmable shot buttons, PID, decent steam, and looks way better than most machines in its class. If you’re open to modding, a Rancilio Silvia with a GaggiMate mod could give you the control and tinkering potential you want, but only if the mod runs smoothly enough not to frustrate your wife. The Breville Dual Boiler is still the most user-friendly option with volumetric control, great steam, and solid performance, but yeah it’s plasticky and not as aesthetically pleasing. Unfortunately, most HX and prosumer machines. won’t give you auto shot stopping without mods, which is super frustrating considering the price point.

Former obsessed barista here lol i know how you feel :))) Almost eveything you say rings lelit bianca v3, the rotary pump, nice steam, flow profiling, except for the part about saving the profiles, that would be Decent DE1 territory. i don’t see myself with a LMLM at home, although I absolutely adore Linea in a cafe setup, it is just reliable, I wanna play around at home and need profiling (maybe GS3 but I don’t like the aesthetic tbh) Personally I would be happy with a gaggimate modded rancilio silvia but i don’t know if it would withstand 20 shots a day. I have also heard great things about WPM Primus but definitely doesn’t have the charm of a cafe workflow machine

It’s gonna be a Profitec go, quick mill pop up in the 1k range and for a little cheaper maybe gaggia classic pro, ranchillio silvia. There aren’t a whole lot more that are really well made and built to last in that price range. There are some other machines that make good espresso like some of the Breville machines or even a Turin legato/mii coffee apex but who knows how long those will last. Now adding a grinder is another thing altogether. I would save at least a few hundred for a grinder and another hundred or 2 for tools and cups etc. 1,000 all in I might go gaggia classic e24, Turin sk40 grinder, a bottomless pf, wdt, normcore espresso scale, some cups from amazon, puck screens etc. You may even come in just under 1k and could think about a nicer used machine. That’s my 2 cents! I have a Profitec go and a df64 gen 2 which I love both it will run you around $1,500 new

De'Longhi machines dose higher, grind finer, and extract better. For that price you can get a Magnifica Plus which, gram for gram, comes VERY close the quality semi autos. When dialed in to 20-30 sec extraction time using the doppio+ function and stopping early at 40ml the espresso very close to the same dosed shot I get from my Rancilio Silvia and Vario combo. The problem with Phillips, Saeco, and Gaggia machines is they dose lower, grind too course, and can't achieve the standard SCA/INEI extraction times of 20-30 seconds. The espresso they produce is considerably less intense with thin body which is what most people associate with espresso from a super auto. Espresso from higher end De'Longhi machines when dialed in are on another level. Other manufactures like Jura and KitchenAid are also much better than Phillips, Saeco, and Gaggia but fall behind De'Longhi in espresso quality.

In espresso quality, yes absolutely. I have had shots from an S8 which uses the same dose, brew group, and grinder as the z10. Tom from toms coffee corner compared modern De'Longhi machines to a E8 which also uses the same dose and brew technology. All high end Jura machines make the same espresso. James Hoffmann compared a z10 to an older, lower dosing, Dinamica Plus and only found the z10 to be "maybe fractionally better". The Dinamica Plus was not even set to its highest dose and it is an older lower dosing machine to begin with and yet still it was on par with a $4000 machine. Beating the espresso quality from a Jura is not that hard. They are hilariously overpriced with Jura depending on the perception of a "premium product" to sell their machines. Its really not about the coffee but the "experience" and they target customers who want that "premium product experience". The Magnifica Plus produces the best espresso of any home super auto at this time. Not a single manufacture of home super autos can consistently meet all the SCA metrics for espresso extraction except for De'Longhi. Combine that with a dose as high or higher than all others and you have the best home superautomic made. The Magnifica Plus is the highest dosing machine from De'Longhi.

Rancillio Lady Sylvia no doubt about her..