Therm-a-Rest - NeoAir XTherm (OG Version)

I have an OG xtherm, when I flip over it sounds like I’m laying on bags of potato chips but not to the point that it bothers me.

It looks like you're responding to the convo above but the idea of using an inflatable for the torso with pack or equivalent on the legs/feet has many advantages. It's both lighter and has an inherent element of redundancy. If the inflatable fails beyond repair, there's still some kind of insulation for the torso. I just came back from a trip on which I used an old Xtherm torso pad with a GG folding pad that was part of my pack. The old Xtherm only weighs 269g and is much closer to the ground which puts less stress on the knees. The GG pad is 74g. The combo is significantly lighter than a regular Xlite *and* it has inherent redundancy. The Tensor Elite short isn't really a torso length. I'm 170cm and the Tensor Elite short is 160cm. It's too bad Nemo doesn't offer a genuinely torso length version.

The Neo air is so so good, I have an early extreme and it’s just the nuts. My answer to OPs question is which one as have always had thermarest and none have ever let me down. A little check every two years doesn’t harm, poss some seam sealer on my older foam pads once in a while but the Neo air is just fantastic👍

As a 1'58" I've found that the way the pad is structured makes more of a difference for me than having full width. I think it depends a lot on your sleeping style. I really like the thermarest pads at regular width but can't handle the nemo or S2S style that narrow.

New neo-air reputed to be much quieter. Instability might be the result of over inflation. Was for me with my older (circa 2020) model. Let air out until you hip is just barely off the ground. Might still not be the pad for you, but check it out again with the wife’s pad. Edit to add: my old version did get quieter as I put more nights on it. Maybe 50-100 and it’s lost some of the crinkle sound. Moot point probably.

ThermaRest is the gold standard IMO. I’ve got several hundred nights on my Neo Air mattresses and they haven’t had a single leak or issue whatsoever. I’ve been let down in the past by other brands (Eureka, Big Agnes, Sea to Summit, MEC), but the ThermaRests are just rock solid. They’re the ONLY brand I’ll use now.

Light weight, durability, warranty coverage and customer service. I’ve got over 200 nights on my current ThermaRest Neo Air without a single leak or issue whatsoever. Heck, I still have 2 original self-inflating ThermaRests from the early 90s that still hold air just fine.

I’ve got 200+ nights on my current ThermaRest Neo Air with zero issues. My wife and kids have them too and theirs are still holding air too. I’ve heard good things about Exped, but ThermaRest is the only brand I trust. I’ve owned and been let down by inflatable pads from Big Agnes, Euerka, Klymit, MEC and Sea to Summit, but never by TR. shit, I’ve still got my original self-inflating version from the early 1990s and it still holds air perfectly. They’re just built so well and IMO stand the rest of time better than the others. Obviously you want to take good care of them though. I never sit on mine outside of the tent or unless it’s on a tarp.

Looks too thick and bouncy. Is it? My Therm-A-Rest Neo Air feels like an air mattress, sounds like a bag of crisps and doesn’t feel nice on the skin. I hate the thing and much prefer my girlfriend’s Trail Lite. If only it were not so heavy and big.

I'm I side sleeper I and have an older neo air, but I also use a thermarest z rest underneath and it makes all the difference in the world. If your hip touches the ground there is still foam there. And they way nothing and are nearly indestructible.

Echoing what others have said. Here’s my kit which is pretty comfortable down to 20F, FOR ME. I have a very minimal UL tent (gatewood cape) that doesn’t add much/any heat. Xtherm pad, 10F EE Enigma (though I still agree with other posters that the colder you go, the more drafts kill you) REI silk long johns, alpha fleece pants. PAKA socks, or merino is fine PAKA or merino base layer, alpha fleece hoodie, puffy. Alpaca hat. If it’s both windy and cold, I’ll also sleep in my rain gear (Mountain hardware pants, EE Visp jacket) Camping away from water and dewy places but not with a lot of wind will help a lot. Sleeping on dry pine needles/duff will help. If you also have a minimal tarp, cut a double sized ground sheet and taco yourself against the wind. With this gear I often start cold, warm up and then wake up cold because I’ve gotten sweaty. Xtherm and other pads take a little while to heat up with your body. Inflating them with a pump sack or flextail pump is supposed to keep them warmer because they don’t have breath condensation. Similarly, down needs time to loft, so unpacking your sleeping bag early and shaking it out really helps. High fat hearty meal also helps. I add coconut oil, ghee etc to my evening meals for extra calories. You can buy single servings on the internets. I don’t recommend instant lentil soup. I have a bad night where it was super cold so my head was under my sleeping bag but the lentils had been very active in my GI track. Anyways.

Personally (I’m in my 40s and a side sleeper) an Xtherm or Xlite is one of my favorite purchases. But everyone has different needs. I’m a fan of not buying new things until you actually need them. Or you are sure that your goals will outgrow your gear. A cheap inflatable is definitely not worth it.

If you have something you’re happy with, decline to participate in outdoor culture’s fascination with over consumption. That said, getting an expensive XTherm pad completely changed the range of temps I’m stoked to be out in.

I have a trail scout and a neo air xtherm (lite?) and both are awesome and have their place in the right application. The neo air is unreal in cold weather and when trying to go ultralight. The trail scout is a great backup and works just fine in nearly any application except winter camping.

The best warmth to weight ratio pad on the market is the Therm-A-Rest XTherm. Great pad, really fucking warm though so only get it if you sleep cold. It’s pricy but if you buy it at REI it’s got a year of warranty, which you might really need, especially in the desert or even just if it gets all nasty from being wet later on. It’s a steal imo.

XTherm seems to be the gold standard currently and is what I have. I have nothing but good things to say about it - super warm, super light, decently comfortable, and (from my experience) durable

The idea that you can’t be too hot on a pad is reductive. Anyone who sleeps hot in their home will tell you the kind of mattress they use makes a huge difference in sleep comfort. In my experience an X-Therm is very uncomfortable in 50+ F degree temps. I think the reflective feature makes it more uncomfortable in warmer tempts. In hot temps I want a pad that cools, not insulates. It’s worth having options, just like quilts, to have the best setup for the conditions.

The xtherm is warm but I would not recommend it for someone with back issues. The Tensor extreme is pretty comfy and very warm. I have heard great things about the Exped Ultra 5R and 7R.

I sleep extremely cold (smol 5’1 woman). I use a 0 degree Loco Libre quilt (custom fitted to my height), Thermarest Xtherm, and Gossamer Gear Thin Light pad. I also always wear dry baselayers and recently got Enlightened Equipment Synthetic Pants that are the best. Eating dinner/food a few hours before you go to bed also helps and campsite choice matters as well. If you camp by yourself, I recommend a bivy/tarp UL set up. I warm up my bivy far faster than a tent.

Switching to Wide, was a huge step up for me. So much better with my elbows resting on the pad and having enough room to turn at night. Something to consider is that the Nemo has 20D bottom fabric vs Xlite - 30D vs Xtherm - 70D. I have had all kinds of leaks with Nemo pads. Few punctures with Xlite pads and no punctures/leaks with my Xtherm.

I would very highly recommend a quilt sleeping bag. I have a katabatic gear palisade and I love it. https://katabaticgear.com/collections/elite-quilts/products/palisade-ultralight-quilt I use it with thermarest xtherm and when it gets cold enough you just use the straps. You can roll inside of it without moving the bag.

That's still not true though. An X-therm weighs 16oz and has a R value of 7.3. Whereas a z-lite weighs 14oz and has a R value of 2. Even if we assume that foam pads perform above their stated r value you would still need multiple to match the warmth of a single inflatable.

Yep I bring two pads as well. Although my system is a little bit different in that I use an X-therm combined with a 80x40 1/8th pad as my floor and then can fold it down in an emergency. I'm surprised that worked for you. I know when I had first gotten my sulo I took it down to 22F on snow with just a nemo switchback because that's all I owned and could very easily feel the cold from the pad

Thermarest Neo-air x-lite for 3 seasons use or the x-therm if you are looking at colder weather. Yes they are expensive but they have a lifetime warranty and great customer service

I like my neoair xtherm. I’ve never had it in conditions that low, but it’s comfortable, and not as loud as I’d heard it could be.

I’ve used the xterme since it came out with zero problem. At the beginning of last summer I bought the xlite and it immediately leaked. Used it for about 10 nights and took it back to REI. Never again.

Comming from only a foam mat and a 3.8cm air mat, the Xtherm is more than comfortable enough for me. The only thing I could say about it is that it's noisy and could be even lighter.

It’s so noisy. It’s like you’re sleeping on a chip bag. Very warm though.

Pretty sure the reactor is the best. And the obvious pad recommendation for you is the Xtherm

That sleeping pad doesnt look like its made for temps that cold honestly. There's no mention of R-Value on their website. For -25C you'll probably want more than 4-5. Closer to 7 is what I would shoot for. I'll second the Thermarest Neoair Xtherm, its a tried and true mat people have been using for a long time. You can find older models on sale that work fine. If you want to bring a second mat as a backup, i'd suggest a much lighter foam mat than the one you have there. It doesn't need to be nice its just for a backup and extra protection from the ground.

+1 xtherm, just got one recently and it’s awesome.

You'll never regret being warm. Go for high r value. I have a thermarest xtherm which is a whooping 7.3r value. It's absolutely the warmest pad I've ever owned. It however is very crinkly sounding, so much so that I can't recommend it. (Newer versions may be better I hear) Go for the higher r value pads. It's worth the extra weight.

Plus one. I have a therm-a-rest Xtherm, two cheap Amazon pads (they didn’t last), a Big Agnes, and I’ve tried the foam pads (they’re not for me). Exped seems to have the best tech. Their pads are quiet, comfy, reliable, and I love the synthetic down on the inside

First off, I hope you are starting to feel better! Chronic back pain sucks, and can be all consuming at times. I had a Microdiscectomy and Laminectomy in January 2023. Judging by your post history, I was in a similar situation to you. I don’t have a specific pad recommendation, but just wanted to caution you to simulate your expected mileage/gain AND camp as much as possible with whatever pad you choose. In September of 2023 I did a 300 mile hike that nearly ended about half way through because I wasn’t able to get any sleep. I felt pretty strong before starting, but I didn’t do many big training hikes where I also camped for multiple days. Thermarest Xtherm is what I had at the time. More than a year and a half post Op, and now I can sleep on it somewhat comfortably, but it ended up not being comfortable at all that soon after the surgery. Go crush it, a year post Op is definitely something to celebrate! You got this!

I have the Thermarest NeoAir XTherm (max) and freakin love it. Yes it sounds like a crinkly bag of chips, but I sleep with earplugs. It is VERY warm, well made, and surprisingly light/compact. I just went with the idea of "buy one really damn good pad" and then not have to think of it every again - I slept in moroccan desert and high arctic with it - very enjoyable!

Also a woman who sleeps very cold and used to freeze anytime it went below 40. A few things that have really helped me: - Get a sleeping bag as close to your height as possible (sounds like you might already be doing this? I have a bag that's just 1" taller than me for reference) - Upgraded from the Tensor Insulated to the Neoair Xtherm - Eat warm food right before (eating protein in particular seems to help) - Go to sleep earlier (don't wait until I get super cold) - Sleep in wool base layers (basically always) - Sleep in a puffer jacket (when it's extra cold) - When possible, share a tent (this makes the biggest difference to me) Not gear related, but gaining a bit of weight has really helped me feel less cold. If you're at the edge of being underweight that might also be a factor for you.

See if you can find some Reflectix. There might be a few sellers on etsy or ebay that have made pre-cut ones. They should only cost like $10 or so. If you are anywhere near Truckee or Reno I'll give you some. I ended up with a lot of leftovers after I bought a roll at home depot years ago. When I winter camp I use an x-therm air mattress plus reflectix and if I have room (like when using a pulk instead of a backpack) I will also bring a folding pad.

The x-therm is definitely as comfortable as some others. If you really inflate it, it can stiff as a board. But, if you under inflate it, it doesn't insulate as well. But what inflated to nearly full, it will be one of the warmer pads. I use my x-therm for shoulder and winter seasons only. For three season use I am currently using an REI Helix pad which is pretty warm and very comfy. The most comfortable pad I've used. Prior to the REI Helix I was using a Nemo Tensor Insulated. That was also a comfy pad but not as comfy as the REI Helix. And its not as warm as the REI Helix. I gave the Tensor to my son who sleeps warmer than I do. And he really likes it.

Thermarest neoair xtherm

Really ? I've had mine a decade without a single issue. Don't treat it particularly well either. That sucks

2 things here, time of year is key, the other is age. even late spring, in the uplands in the UK you can get hyperthermia pretty easily without decent ground insulation. You mention student, so i'm guessing circa 17-22. You should be able to sleep on a roll mat just fine at thatt age with, esp after a day's hard PT in the outdoors. For this if you want to save money, forget amazon entirely and look at an army foam matt, or a thermarest one if want to buy from a regular shop. Both will keep you alive and insulated in all weathers. As for airpads, they are a liability. I know i've had most brands over the years and the reality is there is no cutting corners. Sure can get a cheap one from amazon, say trekology one of the better one's but know it will fail, and its not a question of if, but when. Note a non insulated airpad, you will have a very very uncomforable night, as in freezing. I've been all over, all different terrains and super remote, a hard foam matt will never fail and you should always carry one, even if you have a top of the range airmat, because without one, if the airpad fails your screwed. As for air pads themselves. My advice is having tried all leading brands, save up and get a thermorest neoair (avoid uber) and go for a xtherm if wanting winter, and the normal(yellow) one if 3 season. yes they are expensive but if they fail (which out of all the matt's ive had over the years are the most reliable) the customer service is second to none, you will get a replacement. So you can buy x number of cheap pads without any ability to get a replacement a year down the road, but over the seasons it adds up. So best advice, is save up a little, make home brew to save money lol, and buy once, but buy quality. The other thing is sleeping bags, and again that becomes very costly. If your young and thus should be fit and thus your not worrying about every gram, look no further than uk ex military surplus stock for sleeping systems/bags. They will last, are well proven and just work.

2 things here, time of year is key, the other is age. even late spring, in the uplands in the UK you can get hyperthermia pretty easily without decent ground insulation. You mention student, so i'm guessing circa 17-22. You should be able to sleep on a roll mat just fine at thatt age with, esp after a day's hard PT in the outdoors. For this if you want to save money, forget amazon entirely and look at an army foam matt, or a thermarest one if want to buy from a regular shop. Both will keep you alive and insulated in all weathers. As for airpads, they are a liability. I know i've had most brands over the years and the reality is there is no cutting corners. Sure can get a cheap one from amazon, say trekology one of the better one's but know it will fail, and its not a question of if, but when. Note a non insulated airpad, you will have a very very uncomforable night, as in freezing. I've been all over, all different terrains and super remote, a hard foam matt will never fail and you should always carry one, even if you have a top of the range airmat, because without one, if the airpad fails your screwed. As for air pads themselves. My advice is having tried all leading brands, save up and get a thermorest neoair (avoid uber) and go for a xtherm if wanting winter, and the normal(yellow) one if 3 season. yes they are expensive but if they fail (which out of all the matt's ive had over the years are the most reliable) the customer service is second to none, you will get a replacement. So you can buy x number of cheap pads without any ability to get a replacement a year down the road, but over the seasons it adds up. So best advice, is save up a little, make home brew to save money lol, and buy once, but buy quality. The other thing is sleeping bags, and again that becomes very costly. If your young and thus should be fit and thus your not worrying about every gram, look no further than uk ex military surplus stock for sleeping systems/bags. They will last, are well proven and just work.

3 things I would recommend: The drafts were killing you. When you get cold enough, quilts are just not practical. You should get a warm sleeping bag, something from Western Mountaineering is what I would recommend. It will treat you well for decades to come if you take care of it. Additionally, get a warmer pad in the Thermarest XTherm. Some might recommend the tensor extreme, but I don’t think it has performed as warm so far since it was released last year. Lastly, you mention that you slept in your sun hoodie. I wouldn’t do that if it’s drenched in sweat. Get an alpha fleece hoodie and pants and sleep in those. I’m not sure what your site selection was like, but it is best to be out of the valley where moisture and cold air settles, but below treeline. Pine needles will give you extra insulation. Trees will also insulate the air and keep the air a little warmer.

Here are few more smaller details to consider. I also sleep cold. If you don’t have a draft collar on the quilt a down balaclava is a light way to cut down on drafts at your neck and on your face. The quilt should be cinched down over the balaclava at your neck and balaclava cinched down around your mouth and nose. In very cold weather you can still wear a hat and/or jacket hood under it if needed. I like the one sold through zpacks. If you’re not already, tuck your top base layer into your bottom base layer to prevent a draft at your waist. Even inside the quilt it can matter. Agree on the xtherm if the pad is getting cold to the touch, or I use 5 folds of Nemo CCF under an xlite for close to the same R value and more flexibility. The pad attachment straps should be cinched tight enough to prevent drafts. And make sure to fluff the down evenly in the panels of the quilt. 30deg is a little colder than I would use a 15deg quilt in. I went with a 10deg because 30 is about the limit of what I would do a trip in. Beyond 30 I would probably use a sleeping bag.

I have a [thermarest neoair xtherm](https://www.rei.com/product/217084/therm-a-rest-neoair-xtherm-nxt-sleeping-pad?cm_mmc=aff_AL-_-145262-_-180150-_-NA&avad=180150_c406ca609) and it's a solid product. I got it for the high r-value (7.3) at a relatively low weight. Decent construction, durable materials, great performance. I'd opt for the wide version. Only real con is that this thing is CRINKLY, definitely the loudest pad I've used and would honestly be a dealbreaker but ultimately it's comfortable and keeps me warm so it's tolerable for me. I will say that if you don't have too much money already sunk into a good tent and you want to upgrade your entire sleeping system, look into hammock camping. I was always a tent person but after using a hammock on one of my trips I could not believe how much more comfortable it is. Check out r/hammockcamping. Either way, good luck with your search!

I don't know if it's the best, but I have Thermarest Xtherm pads for myself, my wife and our daughters. We like to camp whenever, so high R-value is important to us. At the time, these were the best on that part. We have two rectangulars and two lighter tapered ones. These things are very light for what they are and the company really stands by its product. During the first months of the pandemic in '20, my daughters camped out in the backyard for two months for the fun of it. After a couple of months, the tent got water in it, they left their sleeping pads in it. One got mold in it around a small rip on the sleeping surface from wildly playing on it. Those factors caused delamination which made it unrepairable with a patch. No receipt, 5 years old, mold. Took me another 2 years to send it in (I procrastinate...). Thermarest replaced the now 7 years old mat with a new one because they said it should not delaminate. No questions asked.

I sleep really comfortable on the thermarest xtherm - the 7.3cm height are really good in that regard. The 458g and an R value of 7.3 is an added bonus.

I definitely agree with the other posters. You clearly are a cold sleeper and although I think one can adapt a little on longer trips, your current system is clearly not cutting it. I’d recommend something like the WM versalite and an xtherm . If the money is too much, I’d echo the other suggestion of adding a CCF pad to your Nemo and some kind of liner to the quilt but , ultimately, I think in your case a bag will always be preferable to a quilt in these temps .

Both times I’ve hiked the PCT my thermarests have popped in the desert . The first time it was an older thermarest that had already seen a bit of action . The second time it was early on in my hike and it was the one I’d replaced the previous one with! After that I went CCF pad and was absolutely fine with it. In many ways, I prefer it.

A high r-value pad, if all else is close to equal in weight and packed size, is a clear benefit for me. I've moved to a down quilt, and with less or nothing underneath me, it's important that the pad be as insulating as possible. I have a Thermarest Xtherm of some variety (I get really tired of keeping up with the naming conventions. Please hire an intern and not an MBA to name your products). While crinkly, I have found it a huge improvement over my older light backpacking Thermarest.

Highly recommend a thermarest Neoair. I have the X-therm which is the highest R rating they do and is fantastic in winter but if your doing more fair weather they do lower R value ones and lighter weighted models. Expensive but completely worth the price. (Comfortable too) I'd recommend an R value between 2-4 for 2-3 season camping in the UK.

Highly recommend a thermarest Neoair. I have the X-therm which is the highest R rating they do and is fantastic in winter but if your doing more fair weather they do lower R value ones and lighter weighted models. Expensive but completely worth the price. (Comfortable too) I'd recommend an R value between 2-4 for 2-3 season camping in the UK.

Katabatics run narrow. I was freezing in mine when I shouldn't have been - I returned it for a wide width. Also, since you're a cold sleeper like me, I think you should try the Xtherm. I've used the xlite and can tell you the Xtherm is noticeably warmer.

"And no a new pad will not be sufficient to keep me warm" Highly disagree. Have you tried an Xtherm pad? I will guarantee you won't be cold with a 15deg bag and an xtherm. People underestimate how much a pad does to keep you warm, its as equally important as your bag.

I am a side sleeper and I just upgraded from a Klymit static V (do not recommend for side sleepers) to a neoair xtherm I picked up used at REI. The xtherm was so much more comfortable.

I have an old xtherm I’ve used for several years and never had any durability issues. Also a side sleeper and don’t have a problem. One thing to be aware of the others have mentioned—it’s very crinkly. Doesn’t bother me because I’m a heavy sleeper, but I could definitely see it being an issue for some.

What I use

Naturehike is not ASTM rated. Skip. The Rapide is a great pad but is a bit cold. If you want the direct replacement to this pad get the Boundary Deluxe, which is the new name for the Q Core Deluxe. However if you are going to go winter camping over snow go for a higher R value pad. Exped Ultra 5 Exped Ultra 7 Sea to Summit Etherlight XT Extreme Thermarest XTherm Nemo Tensor Extreme

My vote is for Xtherm, mine is finally requiring some patches after what I estimate to be something like 300 days of use

For -5C and durability I would personally take the Thermarest X-Therm mummy. R7.3, 440gr (although mine weighs 460gr in reality), and a 70D material on the underside. Anecdotally, I can feel the cold seep through my Nemo Tensor Insulated (R4.2) from around freezing.

Just go all out, man. You'll regret it if you don't. Those budget constraints? You're gonna end up uncomfortable, trust me. You say 200 max: that’s funny. When you're freezing your butt off or lying on the hard ground, you'll wish you'd spent that little bit extra. Seriously though, look at something like the Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm. Yeah, it's pricey, but it’s worth it if you love your comfort. Get ready to splurge, or keep regretting your “max 200.”

Closed Cell Foam pads like the Ridgerest are actually quite lightweight and super durable compared to air mats - I think my full length Ridgerest was 12.7oz (listed at 14oz). I used a Ridgerest from \~2005 to 2015 and then switched to a Neo Air X-Therm as I was getting older. I'm not saying I'd go back, but I do miss the durability and simplicity of the Ridgerest. Durability will not be a concern over an inflatable mat at all.

What is your start date? I used a Thermarest xtherm and was warm and comfy. YMMV.

It is not worth it as long as you can sleep and truly rest on a closed cell foam pad. that is definitely a more reliable pad, but that is not something many of us could never do. just because of how uncomfortable it is and for the condition it might leave our body in after laying that way without support so long. I will say this, though my thermos Neo air has never had a reliability issue and I’ve probably used it 60 - 70 nights so far.

Thermarest. There’s a reason it costs so much. It’s in high demand because it’s worth the money.

My best advice then would be to go ahead and invest in a decent insulated inflatable pad. Most are very sturdy and if something were to happen I’ve always found that the brands who make them will happily replace them (as long as it’s a manufacturing failure). The reason I recommend an insulated pad is because there is no penalty to using one in the summer, but they are a necessity in the winter. Sleeping on a low r-value pad in the winter is like sleeping without a bag. You simply can’t get warm. The ground pulls all of the heat out of you. You can find either a thermarest Xtherm or a Nemo tensor extreme heavily discounted online (I usually buy used stuff still in the box or that still has tags for a hefty discount). Basically, either plan on buying a high r-value pad now or plan on buying a second pad in the winter when you’re summer pad doesn’t keep you warm.

Gonflé bien ferme, présente t-il un problème ?! Je suis de fort gabarit ! J'ai un Néoair Topo Luxe  que j'adore ! J'ai aussi un Xtherm 😉 !

J'ai aussi un Xtherm et viens de faire l'achat du Néoloft...je ne sais pas si cela vaut la différence vs mon Topo...je le préfère ferme !

Thermarest neo air xtherm

Just a little. Nothing that keeps me or my wife awake at night. I LOVE the 7 R value

It will take some adjusting and time but I would try to learn to sleep on just foam. Substantially cheaper, more durable, easy to use, and warm enough for the summer. Inflatables take a lot of babying, they often get holes. I use a Nemo switchback for 3 seasons and then jump to a thermarest xtherm (which has a 70d bottom) for the cold. Yes, foam is not as comfy, it just takes some getting used to but you can learn to sleep on it fine. If it’s just not worth it and you really want an inflatable, put an 1/8in foam under, or at a bare minimum a groundsheet, even in the shelters

I use a thermorest Xtherm and I don't feel like it's very loud. If you put your hand on it and push on it, it does sound very chip baggy but when you actually lay on it and move around it's not loud. I'm a fairly light sleeper and move around and don't notice it.

That piece of shit keeps breaking on me non-stop. Mini punctures 24/7

If you want one pad for all situations the Xtherm or the similar pad from Nemo (new this year, forgot the name) seems like a pretty substantial upgrade for both weight and comfort. Going from R in the 3s to R in the 7s is a pretty big difference and I'd guess you'll be able to leave your extra pad at home in the winter. Definitely get a wide pad unless you know you can fit on a 20 (few of us can).

The Big Agnes pads are definitely comfortable. The Rapide is light, compact, and likely tough enough. Tougher than a Tensor probably (though Nemo updated it this past year). One of the most durable in this range is possibly the Thermarest NeoAir Xtherm, but they are not cheap, at all. [Reddit thread from 2 years ago. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/zn5jim/highly_durable_air_pad_for_heavy_use/)

The Thermarest NeoAir is indeed lighter. At just 12 ounces the semi-mummy arguably the best quality sleeping pad in this range and weight. But it's also not cheap. The NeoAir Xtherm is the cold weather version, R 7.4, and 16 oz. The Nemo Tensor Extreme is rectangle, R 8.1, and 18 oz. Both the Thermarest and Nemos are quieter than they were in the past. Also, the more you use them, the more quiet they get. Agree the Thermarest pump sack is the worst of the bunch, no question, but I've gotten mine to work enough. The Rapide is usually warm enough for most people 3 seasons, and the reason to buy it is indeed it's thickness, and the sides being raised. Agree the Exped 5R is good for most people. It's a simple, comfortable, rectangle. R 4.8, and 1lb 4 oz. That's certainly heavier than the Thermarest but $50 cheaper.

The Thermarest NeoAir is indeed lighter. At just 12 ounces the semi-mummy arguably the best quality sleeping pad in this range and weight. But it's also not cheap. The NeoAir Xtherm is the cold weather version, R 7.4, and 16 oz. The Nemo Tensor Extreme is rectangle, R 8.1, and 18 oz. Both the Thermarest and Nemos are quieter than they were in the past. Also, the more you use them, the more quiet they get. Agree the Thermarest pump sack is the worst of the bunch, no question, but I've gotten mine to work enough. The Rapide is usually warm enough for most people 3 seasons, and the reason to buy it is indeed it's thickness, and the sides being raised. Agree the Exped 5R is good for most people. It's a simple, comfortable, rectangle. R 4.8, and 1lb 4 oz. That's certainly heavier than the Thermarest but $50 cheaper.

> I'm close to getting a Thermarest Xtherm, which I probably will as it seems ideal to me, unless convinced otherwise. Good call. I vaguely prefer a torso-length CCF paired with a ThermaRest XLite to build in a bit of redundancy, but the XTherm has fantastic warmth for weight, and we don't hear about many issues. This is a sound choice for sure. Consider a wide. I don't mind "regular" width pads, even as a big guy, but people often find them shockingly small. Think seriously about the dimensions. For -10C, I'd strongly recommend a mummy bag, with a hood. Quilts are a great weight savings, but even a lot of experienced people prefer mummy bags as the temperature dips meaningfully below freezing. Where are you ordering to and what's the budget for the bag? (Tariffs and shipping will probably guide the selection process.)

An insulated inflatable sleeping mat is one of the best investments you can do. I had an alpkit basic one and upgraded to a Thermarest neoair. The difference is enormous and the insulation is paramount. When you sleep you compress the sleeping bag with your weight and in doing so you reduce its insulation factor. An insulated sleeping mat helps restore that insulation

I think a lot of the inflatable pads are cold in sub freezing temperatures because they are getting cooled from the sides by the cold air. The cold sides will then cool the rest of the air between the mylar sheets. I imagine the exped don’t suffer as much from cooling from the sides because it’s filled with synthetic/down insulation and not “just” layers of mylar film. (This is just my theory) I was miserable on my thermarest xtherm at -20-25C. Going forward I will use my exped 5r coupled with a ccf, mammut bamse extreme, on top at those temps.

Thermarest neoair xtherm. Expensive, but totally worth it. Don’t do what I did and spend 2x rrp on 4 other pads because the thermarest is “too expensive” before, inevitably, buying a thermarest because everything else sucks.

When they inflate well they’re great. I’m honestly wondering if I don’t take proper care of mine, normally don’t get more than a year out of them

This. I use an Xtherm and a 30degree quilt and have been fine on nights in the high 20s.

I have an x-therm from more than a decade ago that's keeping up. I do have the same complaint about width and I would have gone with the wider version. Maybe 75 nights on it, all year round. The thicker bottoms they have on those are great when you're in a stealth spot with roots. I've never slept on any other blow up pad before but the x-therm is really warm and allows me to sleep on my side without my hips touching the ground. Edit: I have used my breath in my bag for all those years and have not noticed any problems. I air everything out, open, in a hot sun until its dry then pack it for the next trip and I've never had mold or any issues on the inside.

I’m surprised the X-Therm is uncomfortable for you. I’m a side sleeper too and end up having to let a little air out of mine so it’s not too firm after I blow it up. To me, it’s almost as comfortable as my bed at home. (6’1 205 lb male) Have you tried more air to firm it up so you don’t bottom out or does that make it too firm for you?

I think R of 3-4 is right for 3 season. Because it can get frosty in the autumn and the spring. Most of the time 2.5-3 will be plenty, but not all the time. I have been using Thermarest for years. I used to have an XTherm, an Xlite and an Uberlite. I upgraded my Xlite to the new NXT version and that has proven so good I sold my XTherm. I can use the Xlite nxt down to -5C and I’m plenty warm, if I was going any colder than that, I would take an additional CCF mat, not just for the extra warmth but also just in case I have a problem with my pad as a back up. On a budget I would recommend getting a 2nd hand Xlite of the previous generation. It’s a great pad and it’s very light for the warmth you get. They are a little crinkly but that never bothered me. I think the best pad for the job is the new Xlite NXT. It’s the same weight as the last one, but it’s quieter, even thicker and even warmer. But it isn’t cheap.

The Xtherm is the warmest sleeping pad in it's price range and weight class that I've found. (I've had my Xtherm for 3 years. So, I might be behind on the newer products.) For car campers who don't need to worry about the weight of their gear, they can probably get the same warmth that weighs more, for a lot less money.

What's your head gear situation? Insulation similar to your quilt on your head is crucial to meeting the temp rating. Rec: Gryphon Gear Taurus (actual comfort rated) and hood, pad at +4.3. Note: I find I sleep colder on 25" pads as I have less contact w/pad and there is more air to "heat". Try bumping up with torso length ccf or a better pad. Xtherm ftw. Women's xlite is awesome at your height too. https://zpacks.com/products/goose-hood Or https://www.gryphongear.com/products/cold-weather-hoods

I am a side sleeper so using only a foam pad is out for me, so I usually run a 3” inflatable pad. That being said, I have never had issues with leaks and I spend a decent amount of time on them. I think there’s a few reasons for this. First I always have something between the ground and my pad like a tarp, rope, or my foam sleeping pad if it’s cold, and I am very careful about prepping where I’m going to sleep and removing sharp rocks, sticks, glass, thorns etc. Another thing to give credit to is buying high quality sleeping pads. I had my Thermarest Neoair x therm for probably the better part of 6 years and never had a problem with it. I recently switched to the Nemo Tensor Extreme because I got a super good deal and was able to trade in my old pad, and I have been happy with it so far.

Eh you don't always get what you pay for. I bought a thermarest pad for winter camping and they sent me a pad that leaked on first use. They offered to repair if i paid for shipping and repair cost but that's ridiculous after spending over $200 for a product that was sent to me unusable

The Xtherm is reasonably durable, but not enough so that I've ever trusted my life to it in remote extreme conditions. Like most people, I pair it with a foam pad. The foam pad is great to have anyway. You can put it right on the ground or snow to sit or stand on at camp, and you can cut off a piece if you are building a splint. It also serves as an emergency backup if the Xtherm develops a leak that can't be patched. The classic self-inflating Thermarest pads that they have been making for 30+ years are less warm and less comfortable than the Xtherm, but far more durable. Those have some foam in them, so they don't roll up as small, but they will still provide a little warmth if they spring a leak (though they also have bomber construction and almost never fail). They are issued out to troops by the US Army (I take it from your photo that you are one of those types of people to whom that endorsement matters). However, for the temperatures you are talking about, you will still want to pair that pad with a foam pad. The best combination is a modern lightweight inflatable foamless pad with a high R value like the Xtherm, combined with a foam pad like a Z-rest or a RidgeRest. If you're very concerned about bulk, you can of course trim the foam pad down to a 3/4 length. I prefer the folding Z-rest style over any pad that needs to be rolled, but that's your preference.

You should be good with the Neoair xlite. For your temps, it should be more than enough. If you plan on camping even colder, get the xtherm. The Xtherm is so warm it literally feels like im on a heated floor unless im directly on snow, even then it feels warm, its literally unusable in the summer.

Neo air xtherm, high rating, light and packs small. You get a pump sack, literally 2/3 pumps and it's inflated.

If you want to camp in your backyard or out of your car, just stack a bunch of foam - it'll be the cheapest and effective. If you want to carry your ground insulation on your back, the xtherm is the only good option for conditions where it is 0F or below and you are on frozen ground and snow (ideally paired with a thin foam pad as well).

It was really cool to see Steven test this. There are not many people outside of the big companies with resources to be doing this. It reinforces observations I have had with pads since the new ASTM standard first came out. I think the big takeaway was that the tests reinforce how much the current r-value testing system gets completely messed up by convective heat transfer. Because rvalue testing happens at room temperature, pads without methods to reduce convective heat transfer potentially perform better than if they had methods to reduce convective heat transfer. The room temp air is helping the pads "combat" the cold plate underneath the pads. This is made more of a factor by the fact the plates that sandwich the pads usually only take up a fraction of the pads surface area. Stevens testing reinforces what I have also been seeing in the field while testing dozens of pads in every temperature possible. Pads like the Xtherm (with good convective heat loss mechanisms) outperform pads like the Tensor XC (minimal convectove eat loss mechanisms) even though the Tensor XC has a higher tested rvalue. I think a good quick and dirty method for testing convective heat transfer is the deflation test. Open a fully inflated pads dump valve and see how quickly it deflates. You could start trying to push air out too by rolling it. You'll notice pads like the Xtherm are a lot harder to get air out of. Companies are designing pads for the testing standard, which is going to bite them in the butt since it's essentially wasted R&D with more info coming out about how rvalue can be a good place to start but is kind of garbage. edit: To answer your question, you will sleep warmer on a CCF pad of an equal ASTM tested r-value inflatable pad due to the issues with the testing standard. CCF does phenomenally at reducing convective heat transfer.

xtherm + closed cell foam pad

Akshually… you really do want the closed cell on top if you’re strictly looking at it from an energy standpoint because it takes more energy to heat up the air inside the air pad. That being said, I use a gossamer gear thinlight under my xtherm for sleeping on snow because it keeps the pad from slipping around as much and have been fine down to -40f..

I’ve a full XTherm and 3/4 Neolite plus many foam pads for winter. Both are loud but I don’t notice it

Feathered friends down booties 100$ absolute game changer Amazon brand down pants $50 very nice. Thermarest xtherm sleeping pad. expensive but total game changer. Those 3 plus a decent sleeping bag and she will be warm all winter with no issue

Contrarian view - had a Tensor, it leaked out of the box. Had a standard Neo air - it leaked after a handful of weekends, wasn't quite plush enough for me. I used an XTherm for the last 1,000 miles of the AT in overnight temps from 25 to 85F and slept fine. Have had it out on snow and slept fine. Heavier, sure, but sturdier. Arguably quieter than the Neoair.

I kind of regret not buying a thermarest xtherm instead of the neoair I think. Fairly big R value difference: - neoair wide/regular mummy: R=4.5, 16oz - xtherm wide/regular mummy: R=7.3, 19oz 3oz (+19%) weight difference for 62% higher R value I backpack a decent amount in hot DC summer/falls though and felt the x-therm might just make me too hot.

The thermarest Neo air mats are lightweight and good quality, if a little pricey. MEC alternatives aren’t bad either. I prefer a foam/air mix pad and have been really happy with the one I have form Sea to Summit. If you want to be on the inexpensive side, look at Woods or Decathalon, but expect more weight.

If the Prolite works great for you, why not keep it and cut weight elsewhere? Pads are quite subjective, like recommending shoes. I agree it's a grail hunt, I've went through a bunch too! The Neoair is my go-to, the Exped Ultra is my favorite, and I can get by on a z-lite in warmer weather.

I have found and fixed a leak in my NeoAir, but I can't imagine finding the hole while on the trail.

I've 200+ nights on my NeoAir. I've patched a couple holes over that time, but it was easy to identify and fix them in the field. Cascade Designs, the parent company of thermarest, will replace your pad if there's a defect in it (I've warrantied an MSR tent with them). Thru hikers use inflatable pads and do just fine. Are you having this problem with multiple brands and models? Are you super heavy? Are you sleeping wearing anything that is metal? Maybe get a gossamer gear 1/8" foam pad and put it underneath your inflatable.

Then it’s a CCF pad for you. I’ve had no issues with reliability. I’ve owned an Uberlite and two Neoairs (NXT and non). But if something can break, it will eventually. I’d recommend babying it, in every way (site selection and clearing, handling, etc.).

6’4”, 220, although with a back that does not require repair. Most comfortable backpacking pad I tried is S2S Comfort Insulated Plus. Weight is awful - 2.5 lb - but the double chamber system is excellent at balancing protection from the ground and support vs having a softer top to rest on. Large rectangular size provides enough space, especially if you are a back sleeper. Outside of double chamber systems like that one, basically Thermarest NeoAir are the best of the bunch. Pricy but thick and performant. The popular S2S Etherlight is thicker, but also requires being inflated firmer which makes it overall meh unless you specifically want ultra-firm.

It has taken a few weeks on sleeping on my thermarest neoair to figure it out for consistent sleep: deflating so I’m only just off the ground, and ear plugs. That combo works for me for backpacking. Canoe camping I still prefer my self inflating tractor with a blue foam mat underneath for that little extra cushion!

Not a duo, but after trying a series of pads my partner (who is usually cold at night) loves her vectair, when comparing it to my Neo and her old self-inflating.

For solo? Assuming you don’t need a free standing tent, take a look at Mier Lanshan 1P on Amazon. It uses a trekking pole. I have like a 16 year old NeoAir pad which rolls up slightly smaller than a Nalgene. It’s kinda pricey but they still make them.

Exactly this! I also just switched from NeoAir to Exped for this reason after trying my partner's Exped. So much more comfortable although ever so slightly bigger/heavier.

This is subjective. For me, yes, an inflatable pad is worth it for better sleep quality. Foam pads just don't work for me. In your case, you report that you already sleep fine on a foam pad so why not just stick with it? Regarding durability of an inflatable, yes it's likely lower but you may be able to patch it and still worth it for sleep quality. I did get a leak in my NeoAir but I set up camp in a reasonable spot and was able to put my pack under it and it was ok. Patched it when I got home. The hot ticket item for me is actually the short Prolite. Very similar weight to my old NeoAir, bit more durable, adequate ground insulation, and still has a bit of foam. Takes up more space but still fits in my packs with usual loadouts.

I'm doubtful the exped is more durable than the neoair. Exped uses a 20D fabric vs a 30D for the neoair. Denier isn't everything but we can suppose both brands use good quality fabric. The neoair is one of the highest rated inflatable pad on the pct survey, it wouldn't be the case if they were constantly popping. I don't think you should ever use it on bare ground though.

I had a neoair and never had a good night sleep. I loved the packed size and weight, but I always felt like I was perched on it and would be thrown off if I wriggled. I also had one of the older, noisier ones so it sounded like a crisp packet. I now use a short prolite which is a combination of foam and air. I’m much closer to the floor and it all feels a lot more stable. This results in me managing to sleep for 8 hours on the trail which is priceless. It’s heavier and no pad under my feet so I put my bag under my feet on cold nights. But having a good night sleep after a long day on your feet is worth the extra weight.

I’m taking a neoair AND a RIDGEREST!!!!! Luxury baby! Base weight is still 11 pounds cuz of a few other luxuries but DO IT!

You've tested *all* of them? You find the Nemo more comfortable than an Etherlite XT? An REI Helix? An Exped? A Rapide SL? That doesn't compute for me. The Nemo is more comfy than a Neoair but well below all of those.

Slept on a ZLite on the AT and PCT, bought a NeoAir for the CDT and slept great on all of them. 10+ years later and I can’t even come close to a good nights sleep on a 25 inch wide pad with a decent pillow. Probably just need to hike more miles.

I had one of the first neo airs and I used on extended trips and for work. I also let my dogs walk all over it. I used it on rocks and twigs. It took like 10 years to get a hole.

I've been using the thermarest neos air ones since they were introduced.

Buy once cry once. Get a nemo Tensor all season or a Thermarest Neoair - you can find both used on ebay for less than rrp.

I’m a side sleeper and went from the Tensor to the Thermarest neo air. The tensor is crazy noisy and if you flip from side to side like I do it’ll wake you and anyone you sleep near up. It’s really loud to me. The Thermarest is way quieter, has a higher r value and I’ve been pretty comfortable side sleeping on it in a zenbivy quilt and sheet. Seems a bit counter intuitive, but sometimes I find that I’ve made it too firm after a few hours and I just reach up and let a bit of air out if I’m feeling any discomfort and go right back to sleep.

yeah sometimes you end up in a bind where the pad that is the most comfortable for you is one that is prone to having some manufacturing defect that reveals itself slowly. i wish i was more comfortable on thermarest neoair but i just can't sleep good on horizontal baffles. i know they're more reliable over the long term. but what are you gonna do. what kills me is people on this sub who act like because pads develop weld defects that means you're WaStEfUl or bad at caring for your gear. it's asinine

I know they are light but the neoair durability isn’t great. Also Cascade (thermarest) just moved from Seattle to Reno and I bet things are super disorganized still I opted for the Exped Ultra series. There’s a weight penalty but I find them much more comfortable, and Exped repairs pads for the cost of shipping to Tacoma.

You obviously have not tried a NeoAir

I won’t say most but I would say a good majority use the thermo rest neo air. It varies in size but it’s a quality pad and I use it personally

Same. Bought NeoAir in 2016. Full AT thru, full PCT thru, a dozen other short trips. Still going strong!

No insulating value so not appropriate for cold weather; otherwise, if you like it great! I like closed cell foam for bottom dollar functionality but lots of folks can't/won't sleep on it, which is where you get the expensive inflatable pads you're talking about that are light and warm and compact (but cost a lot). In that category I like the thermarest neoair series.

I slept on a neoair it was uncomfortable and noisy I switched to a Nemo tensor not even in the same realm of comfort. I also have a sea to summit ether light xt and it's heavy but best pad comfort I have slept on.

Most of the negative reviews I’ve seen for the Rapide have been for the model that came out for 2024. I bought a used model for that reason, and so far so good, I’m sleeping much better than I did on my Thermarest Neoair. Taking it out next week for the first time with lows in the 30° range, fingers crossed. Also a side sleeper here.

Same here. When I did my life's biggest hike thus far, I was in my early 20's, very close to being underweight, and had zero injuries. Sleeping on a Z-Lite was a no-brainer, and I was comfortable on it. Now, I'm tickling the upper limit of the normal weight range, I have to arrange my legs in a certain way to avoid knee pain, have one shoulder prone for a nerve getting pinched, and one elbow that won't go straight. My Thermarest NeoAir enables me to get a decent night of sleep out there.

I was happy with a foam pad in my 20's, when I was almost underweight and had zero sports injuries. Nowadays, hovering at the top end of the normal weight BMI range, and with a couple of joints that need to be placed in a very delicate way to achieve a comfy position, I've got a Thermarest Neoair, a version warm enough for winter use but also perfectly comfortable during summer. I've pathced it once, and the patch has been sitting there for at least four years without a problem. I'm a side sleeper. I think if I could sleep on my back, I might still be using foam.

Another vote for the Thermarest NeoAir

I read quite a few reviews if the nemo Tensor that it fails/leaks, and that it's potato-chip bag loud! The pad noise is something I really hate, so I would have to touch this in store to check personally. I bought the NeoAir years ago based on the hype, but found that it's so ridiculously loud I can't use it!

Take them both 100%. The thinlight stops the neoair from moving/ sliding around, or sharp sticks puncturing it. Thinlight is great back up if neo air pops. It’s so light, it does double duty for stretching, fast breaks, extra backing in frameless pack. Take it!( I’ve many with it on the PCT)

For me it really depends what I'm doing and where I'll be sleeping. If I'm sleeping on relatively flat, manicured ground or snow I bring my inflatable Neoair, it's smaller, lighter and warmer. If however I might end up on rocky ground or am climbing something where a bivy isn't intended, but is a possibility I bring my z-lite as I can use it anywhere. So ultimately I'd recommend buying both if you intend to be sleeping on both rocky ground and snow.

It’s like a gamble. For me I’ve been using a NeoAir for a 2000 mile thru hike plus another 500 miles since than with no . Maybe mine was made on a Wednesday. Never buy a pad made on a Monday or Friday.

I'm a side sleeper with hip pain at times and I prefer a CCF Nemo Switchback for sleep. I am planning on selling my barely used NeoAir Thermarest inflatable bc it always makes back and hip issues worse. Then again I'm someone who prefers to sleep on the floor over a bed bc it feels way better on my back. Good luck in your search!

I weigh around 170 and have had my current pad (a Therm-a-rest NeoAir) for over 10 years and it's still going strong. I use it roughly 30 nights per year. I roll it up, no stuff sack, and carry it in my pack. I sleep in a tent so my pad doesn't have direct ground contact when I'm sleeping, but I frequently take it out of the tent and put it on the ground so I can relax outside.

I have a neo air - cost a bomb when I got it about ten years ago. Definitely worth it - warm and comfy! Before that I "borrowed" my auntie's thermarest back in 2003 - that was a few years old then. I think I only made one repair.

I have a light weight thermarest neoair. Super small packed up. But thinking is there a just slightly wider version. I've used i a lot for a long time doing races but.... maybe more comfort is due. My arms fall off when on my back.

I've had a neo air and it's light but noisy when turning. Just got a big Agnes (can't remember the model but the widest single insulated) and it's comfy and quieter when turning. Certainly heavier than the neoair though

My Thermarest neoair doesn’t state in the instructions that you can’t inflate by mouth and I always have with no negative effects. There is a video online that provides empirical evidence debunking the belief that mouth inflation adversely affects sleeping pads

I used self inflating Thermarest pads for years, granted they were older models, but the NeoAir is much more comfortable for me as a side sleeper. Have you tried inflating it less? Sounds like you may have too much air in it

If you’re camped on a slope, layering the neo-air over the foam pad keeps it from slipping downhill. Plus it makes a great ass pad during the day.

For a rainy bikepacking trip, definitely go for a lightweight, waterproof tent like MSR or Big Agnes. A synthetic sleeping bag and an inflatable sleeping pad like Therm-a-Rest will keep you dry and comfortable. You’ll be good to go with that setup!

The suggestion of a rental is a good idea if you currently aren’t interested in making this a hobby! If you are looking to buy, however, the foam Therm-o-Rest pads are the classic camping pad that everyone owns one of. They z-fold up into a rectangular stack and are relatively light and cheap. I’m 40 and need a little extra cushion on the trail these days, so I use an air mattress. Therm-o-rest has some decent priced air mattresses, but they are a little spartan compared to some of the more expensive air mattresses.

For me the thermarest warranty has been worth its weight in gold, it’s an inflatable product that’s exposed to the elements, they’ll all get damaged eventually but every interaction I’ve had with them has been amazing, no questions asked replacement or repair

Yeah my first was thermarest. Didn’t like. I do enjoy my Nemo tensor and I just ordered a switchback closed foam from Nemo now! Are you a side sleeper??